NCAA proposing new rules to allow schools to pay athletes directly

[Voltopia]

They had to ask permission (get a release) of the school they were currently enrolled in since letters of intent were legally binding. If that school declined, the athlete could still leave but would be forced to sit out from sports a year and might not be able to receive financial aid from the school they changed to. They would also lose a year of eligibility if they transferred without permission (release). I think you had to apply for a waiver or exemption, but the NCAA would likely revoke it.

Remember the days when an SEC school for example might grant a release if the player was transferring to a different conference? The player didn't have complete freedom to go where they wanted. The school had power over the player and could make his/her life much more difficult depending on where the player wanted to go.

Maybe forced was the wrong word to use on my part. But they made transferring very unfriendly for the player. I'd bet there were a lot of guys that wanted to change schools, but decided it wasn't worth the negatives that were put in place to keep them there.

That's fair, and I'll split the difference with you on it. The schools did create a process that discouraged transferring; for a variety of reasons, some I think justifiable, others much less so, they didn't want to have free agency in college sports. I just don't think the language about force and control is accurate, but a lot of people like to use those sorts of descriptives for it. And to be fair, the schools carry a lot of the blame for creating an environment where the phrase "student-athlete" is mocked rather than celebrated. That's on them.

 

[The Original Fade]

Some days I wish stuff like this would just blow up the sport altogether and watch it burn. Just so those that think they are smart, but aren’t get what they asked for.

 

[volfeeva]

Thank god that wasn’t happening before.

I love parity. Like since 2009 how only 7 schools have won a national title.

I knew someone would use that excuse to suggest that what is happening now is going to make things better---they won't. Yes, we have the same schools win the natty for a few years running, BUT at least there was a chance other schools had a shot at it. And my complaint about how college has become ruined includes the allowing students to jump schools so they can chase a ring over all else---- it's not just about this latest NIL rule. Now they just chase money and the ring is second.

 

[SpookyAction]

when you factor in having to devote 50% of the revenue to womens sports, it really isnt as good a deal as one might think. you will have womens teams, which contribute, generously, 10% of the athletic budget get 50% of the return. good day to be a womens athlete

IMO, the NCAA has to offer it that way because of Title IX but they're subtly pointing out to the big revenue programs that unless they want to REALLY share the money with the other sports, they need to leave the NCAA and start their own business away from the schools.

The schools are stuck with Title IX but businesses like the NFL aren't. The more I read of this, the more I think the NCAA is trying to find a way to keep the entire ship of college athletics from going down just because a few college programs are very lucrative.

When I read the links, my first thought is the NCAA is trying to take control of this before the genie leaves the bottle again. NIL was born at the Supreme Court, and the NCAA has probably had enough legal firepower tell them they have to govern over the likely inevitable compensation movement or disappear/diminish.

Many may hate the idea of UT revenue sport players getting a base salary, but the legal reasoning for them not to be eligible for compensation directly from the AD, which make 9 figures from their labors at premiere programs, is flimsy.

The NCAA does not want to go back to the Supreme Court fighting a college athlete employment case .

The NCAA (February 2023) asked a US Appeals Court to reject a case filed for college athletes to receive hourly wages on the basis of tradition and the complications that would arise about backpay, taxability of the compensation, and legal fees for the Universities. Those aren't powerful legal arguments. One of the judges even questioned the NCAA lawyers about some college athletes already being employees by meeting the employment requirements of the Fair Labor Standards Act.

The NCAA is probably floating this balloon in expectation of this case, or the next one, going against them. The inclusion of pay for women's sports is obviously an attempt to meet the minimum requirements of Title IX. The lawyer representing the student-athletes in the case suggested the NCAA could make the cases go away by loosening its restrictions on student athletes.

 

[SpookyAction]

Some days I wish stuff like this would just blow up the sport altogether and watch it burn. Just so those that think they are smart, but aren’t get what they asked for.

I can't say I am fully in favor of student athletes becoming professionals, but the legal argument against paying them a wage or salary is not strong.

The rule against paying them is an NCAA rule from 1906. It is not legally binding. It is an agreement between universities and conferences to have common standards. This makes the NCAA a "joint venture", competing under a common set of rules.

The NCAA's legal arguments amount to that it should effectively be exempted from antitrust rules that prevent businesses from colluding with their competitors to set workers’ compensation. Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh addressed this directly in their 2021 opinions.

The Supreme Court did not address that matter, because it was not part to the name and likeness lawsuit before it in 2021. That case struck down the NCAA restrictions on name and likeness compensation only. Judge Gorsuch's decision stated the NCAA had to follow the same anti-trust rules as everyone else. It alluded that the anti-trust exemptions sports leagues in the US enjoy does not extend to the NCAA's attempt to limit player compensation.

Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote a separate concurring opinion where he argues that “the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules also raise serious questions under the antitrust laws."
“The NCAA’s business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America.” Among other things, the NCAA “controls the market for college athletes;” it “concedes that its compensation rules set the price of student athlete labor at a below-market rate”; and it “recognizes that student athletes currently have no meaningful ability to negotiate with the NCAA over the compensation rules.”

That is a shot across the bow of the NCAA , and a signal to student-athletes that they should consider filing a new lawsuit challenging the NCAA’s remaining restrictions on compensation.

And that is how we are here.

 

[hog88]

Go ahead and flame me but I don’t like it. College sports were pure for the most part. Don’t like it !!

College sports haven't been pure in well forever but I don't think I like it either. Putting NIL money under the control of college administrators is a recipe for disaster IMO.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

Im only opposed to this because there is zero doubt in my mind we will miss at least half a season of college foorball due to players on strike.


I was and am a big proponent of NIL as i think we all have the legal right to profit from or names, images and likenesses. However, being paid by the entity that you wear your uniform for...different animal altogether

 

[volfan102455]

and for promotions companies don’t care what the degree is in as long as you have one…

This is true. I did not major in a subject that aligns directly with the industry and work I have been doing since college. I actually had a major that could align with multiple types of industries and work, so I had choices and planned it that way.

 

[dalton_vol]

If you read the article they are proposing changes that aren't making football players employees. They are trying to avoid that. It's NIL payments from the school. Sure they might pay them what they want as a valuable athlete, it's just under NIL and not as an employee.

Not saying employment status won't be a thing in the future. Just that what they're proposing avoids it.

https://footballscoop.com/news/breaking-in-radical-change-ncaa-proposing-new-subdivision-to-allow-schools-to-pay-athletes-directly#:~:text=In%20a%20move%20that%20is,rights%20directly%20to%20their%20schools.&text=in%2012%20minutes-,In%20a%20move%20that%20is%20both%20radical%20and%20inevitable%2C%20the,to%20directly%20compensate%20their%20athletes.

they're getting paid food, rooms, education, they get a stipend from the schools anyways. that stipend will be much more now. i think it's better than using a 3rd party. if you donated money to the school, that could be a tax deduction. unlike giving money to a 3rd party company.

 

[dalton_vol]

Im only opposed to this because there is zero doubt in my mind we will miss at least half a season of college foorball due to players on strike.


I was and am a big proponent of NIL as i think we all have the legal right to profit from or names, images and likenesses. However, being paid by the entity that you wear your uniform for...different animal altogether

they get money anyways, a monthly stipend.

 

[AdoptedVOL]

Bowl Committees YES
Schools NO

 

[Volador]

Give all players a per diem and set amount for each game they suit up. No favorites, everyone is equal.

 

[Jpcisco]

I see a salary cap coming in the next few years, until then the rich will get richer and the poorer, poorer. Smaller university's have already become minor leagues where players can show out a year or two then go get paid big money by the Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State's in the transfer portal. NIL and the Transfer Portal has completely changed college sports the last few years. Kids transferring 2, 3, or 4 times. We are in a new age. I dont hate it personally, I think it's fair to pay players what they are worth, but its the wild west until the NCAA gets a handle on this. If they ever do.

 

[Probably_in_Class]

This is SO much better than the current system. Right now, the biggest funnel of money into the NCAA and CFB teams is through TV and media rights. That money gets split a lot of ways, but a very large piece goes to the schools and no pieces go to the players (except through the AD budget). Now, schools can use that money to compensate players directly instead of relying on us, the fans, to shell out MORE money for donations and collectives to let the players have anything (in addition to all we spend...including the fees to watch the games that fund the media rights deals).

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I see a salary cap coming in the next few years, until then the rich will get richer and the poorer, poorer. Smaller university's have already become minor leagues where players can show out a year or two then go get paid big money by the Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State's in the transfer portal. NIL and the Transfer Portal has completely changed college sports the last few years. Kids transferring 2, 3, or 4 times. We are in a new age. I dont hate it personally, I think it's fair to pay players what they are worth, but its the wild west until the NCAA gets a handle on this. If they ever do.

A salary cap? That implies the players are professionals with a salary. If the players become salaried employees, they won't be going to class or even pretending to be students in any way.

They'll unionize, they'll collective bargain, the league will need a draft to keep parity, etc.

In short, NFL-lite.

 

[Probably_in_Class]

Why don't we use NIL and television rights to compensate the players relative to how they play? If the SEC gets say $500 million annually in TV revenue, then why don't we split that among the schools relative to how they perform? Win the SEC Championship, you get $100 million to split evenly among your players. Then progressively smaller amounts to teams 2-16.

Guys can still do ads for Moonshine Cookies and Pal's and whoever to make extra cash. But you get a system where everyone starts each year on an even playing field and performance matters. Make the playoffs and bowls worth money and guys won't opt-out also.

 

[feathersax]

A salary cap? That implies the players are professionals with a salary. If the players become salaried employees, they won't be going to class or even pretending to be students in any way.

They'll unionize, they'll collective bargain, the league will need a draft to keep parity, etc.

In short, NFL-lite.

That's where things seem to be heading. Feel bad for the sport & for you younger folks who missed when NCAA football was great.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Why don't we use NIL and television rights to compensate the players relative to how they play? If the SEC gets say $500 million annually in TV revenue, then why don't we split that among the schools relative to how they perform? Win the SEC Championship, you get $100 million to split evenly among your players. Then progressively smaller amounts to teams 2-16.

Guys can still do ads for Moonshine Cookies and Pal's and whoever to make extra cash. But you get a system where everyone starts each year on an even playing field and performance matters. Make the playoffs and bowls worth money and guys won't opt-out also.

What would separate the players with incentives from the coaches with incentives?

Both would be seen as employees of the school. Employee status as professional athletes contracted by the school is the big issue the schools can't deal with on several levels.

Why are you paying football athletes and not wrestlers or lacrosse or swimmers? Moreover, they all put in similar work, why aren't you paying them the same?

If the school is in the pro football and basketball athlete business, it's going to have to essentially "divorce" the rest of athletes from them or pay them also. That's why the new idea includes women, because the school has Title IX issues to deal with.

The schools need to get in or get out of the pro athletics market.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That's where things seem to be heading. Feel bad for the sport & for you younger folks who missed when NCAA football was great.

I'm hoping this is just an idea the NCAA is floating to try to keep the courts off their back.

The longer any transition takes, the better. The future doesn't look good if the schools start compensating athletes via NIL or another means.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

I knew someone would use that excuse to suggest that what is happening now is going to make things better---they won't. Yes, we have the same schools win the natty for a few years running, BUT at least there was a chance other schools had a shot at it. And my complaint about how college has become ruined includes the allowing students to jump schools so they can chase a ring over all else---- it's not just about this latest NIL rule. Now they just chase money and the ring is second.

Understand your points and agree with some but The portal allows a player lied too by coaches and we know it happens to Improve their situation. Example Wade Twin QB.

edited and fixed spelling errors

 

[turbovol]

I knew someone would use that excuse to suggest that what is happening now is going to make things better---they won't. Yes, we have the same schools win the natty for a few years running, BUT at least there was a chance other schools had a shot at it. And my complaint about how college has become ruined includes the allowing students to jump schools so they can chase a ring over all else---- it's not just about this latest NIL rule. Now they just chase money and the ring is second.

Exactly right! These crazy, corrupt changes will END any notions of parity. Many schools will not have the money or inclination to pay every student-athlete thousands of dollars every year above the full scholarships they're already receiving. This is basically about separating the biggest/richest/craziest programs (hello, Texas and Aggies and OSU) from all the others.

I thought college was about getting a degree, first and foremost. No! It's now about "enhancing the financial opportunities" of student-athletes who are already getting a completely free college education---plus free food, housing, counseling, tutoring, coaching.

Making money from merchandise sold with your name/image/likeness: I'm all for it--of course. Just giving student-athletes cash--30 grand annually or whatever it may? Total insanity. I've heard of coddling the young, but it's gotten ridiculous. Transfer when and now often you want, smoke pot--we don't care. What's next: Get Out of Jail Free Card if you're a student athlete who commits, say, armed robbery? It seriously wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

When I read the links, my first thought is the NCAA is trying to take control of this before the genie leaves the bottle again. NIL was born at the Supreme Court, and the NCAA has probably had enough legal firepower tell them they have to govern over the likely inevitable compensation movement or disappear/diminish.

Many may hate the idea of UT revenue sport players getting a base salary, but the legal reasoning for them not to be eligible for compensation directly from the AD, which make 9 figures from their labors at premiere programs, is flimsy.

The NCAA does not want to go back to the Supreme Court fighting a college athlete employment case .

The NCAA (February 2023) asked a US Appeals Court to reject a case filed for college athletes to receive hourly wages on the basis of tradition and the complications that would arise about backpay, taxability of the compensation, and legal fees for the Universities. Those aren't powerful legal arguments. One of the judges even questioned the NCAA lawyers about some college athletes already being employees by meeting the employment requirements of the Fair Labor Standards Act.

The NCAA is probably floating this balloon in expectation of this case, or the next one, going against them. The inclusion of pay for women's sports is obviously an attempt to meet the minimum requirements of Title IX. The lawyer representing the student-athletes in the case suggested the NCAA could make the cases go away by loosening its restrictions on student athletes.

Title IX says all sports thank you. That is why we have women’s soccer but no men’s soccer for example and for those that hate soccer fill in the sport name.

 

[turbovol]

I'm hoping this is just an idea the NCAA is floating to try to keep the courts off their back.

The longer any transition takes, the better. The future doesn't look good if the schools start compensating athletes via NIL or another means.

A couple of the court decisions seem ludicrous. A college is not a private business. UT is a state institution, not a private business. How can full-time students be "employees"? It's stupid. There is this myth that the big football programs are rolling in money at the expensive of the players. It's nonsense. Most athletic departments lose money. The big programs do bring in a ton of money--and it all gets reinvested in the football program and every other program that the AD funds--all but basketball money losers.

What the big programs SHOULD have started doing years ago--and the could start now: Is giving a percentage of their revenues to the academic side of the university. That might help with some of this legal stuff.

 

[MontyPython]

We remain in the wild west of rules here with NIL.

Who knows how this will all shake out.

Just go with the flow, adapt to what we got now, and recruit like a madman CJH!

 

[hog88]

This is SO much better than the current system. Right now, the biggest funnel of money into the NCAA and CFB teams is through TV and media rights. That money gets split a lot of ways, but a very large piece goes to the schools and no pieces go to the players (except through the AD budget). Now, schools can use that money to compensate players directly instead of relying on us, the fans, to shell out MORE money for donations and collectives to let the players have anything (in addition to all we spend...including the fees to watch the games that fund the media rights deals).

That's not the way it will work under this proposal.