Need a New OC/Spread Sucks

#103
#103
Dragon18 said:
Wow- you called him out on that one.... Or maybe, just maybe it has something to do with reciever/qb timing, or route running, or trust that the recievers will make a proper read on the defense and break the direction the QB expects them to... No I'm sure you're right, it's all about the UK DBs..... :crazy:

Edit: What were we just talking about vol8188???
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How much football some of our fellow posters understand.
 
#105
#105
I did notice that Coach Cut has even adapted aspects of it. I don't mind the spread. Not a big fan of the Tony Franklin system but its ok to have in your arsenal. Once this offense gets established I wouldnt mind seeing some different looks and formations.
 
#106
#106
cd12 said:
I did notice that Coach Cut has even adapted aspects of it. I don't mind the spread. Not a big fan of the Tony Franklin system but its ok to have in your arsenal. Once this offense gets established I wouldnt mind seeing some different looks and formations.
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I love the Franklin system. The air raid is a fun offense. I wish I could have dvr'd some of Cals games this year.
 
#107
#107
Vol8188 said:
I love the Franklin system. The air raid is a fun offense. I wish I could have dvr'd some of Cals games this year.
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Let me rephrase...I dont like it on every single play. I watch a lot of hs ball and some of these coaches that went all
in with Franklin never go under center. Even goal line. Drives me crazy!
 
#108
#108
Vol8188 said:
That's funny because it seems like Baylor, Texas A&M, Missiouri, USCjr, Auburn, and a billion other teams are producing "elite" qb's year in and year out.

Have you ever thought that maybe it's not the qb? Maybe it's the system?
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Baylor- zero national championships, spread offense

TAMU- zero national championships, spread offense

Oregon- zero national championships, spread offense

USCjr- zero national championships, spread offense

Auburn- one national championship, spread offense

Nick Saban- 4 national championships, pro style offense

LSU- one national championship, pro style offense

NFL teams that run the spread offense that have won Super Bowls or have produced MVP QBs, zero.
 
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#109
#109
BigOrangeTrain said:
Baylor- zero national championships, spread offense

TAMU- zero national championships, spread offense

Oregon- zero national championships, spread offense

USCjr- zero national championships, spread offense

Auburn- one national championship, spread offense

Nick Saban- 4 national championships, pro style offense

LSU- one national championship, pro style offense

NFL teams that run the spread offense that have won Super Bowls or have produced MVP QBs, zero.
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Lol you're right because Baylor has never a NC this offense doesn't work.
 
#110
#110
cd12 said:
Let me rephrase...I dont like it on every single play. I watch a lot of hs ball and some of these coaches that went all
in with Franklin never go under center. Even goal line. Drives me crazy!
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We (Hs team I'm an assistant for) used to shift to single wing on the goal line.

Last year though we just stayed in the gun. We've never had a problem in short yardage. We only went under center to run qb sneak, and to offset our tendency we would occasionally go under on 3rd and short or 4th and short and run a te dump pass.
 
#111
#111
Vol8188 said:
We (Hs team I'm an assistant for) used to shift to single wing on the goal line.

Last year though we just stayed in the gun. We've never had a problem in short yardage. We only went under center to run qb sneak, and to offset our tendency we would occasionally go under on 3rd and short or 4th and short and run a te dump pass.
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Guess a lot depends on the opponent and the D. Benny Monroe used to drive opponents crazy. You could spend all week preparing for the spread and he would come out in the wing T.
 
#112
#112
cd12 said:
Guess a lot depends on the opponent and the D. Benny Monroe used to drive opponents crazy. You could spend all week preparing for the spread and he would come out in the wing T.
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I really liked shifting to the single wing. We didn't have to go under center, yet we were in a heavy run set.
 
#115
#115
Vol8188 said:
I really liked shifting to the single wing. We didn't have to go under center, yet we were in a heavy run set.
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I would like to see Jones switch it up. I just hope that our roster and inexperience is what dictated the predictableness and the vanilla flavoring. I hope he and his OC have that creativness and ability down the road.
 
#116
#116
BigOrangeTrain said:
Baylor- zero national championships, spread offense

TAMU- zero national championships, spread offense

Oregon- zero national championships, spread offense

USCjr- zero national championships, spread offense

Auburn- one national championship, spread offense

Nick Saban- 4 national championships, pro style offense

LSU- one national championship, pro style offense

NFL teams that run the spread offense that have won Super Bowls or have produced MVP QBs, zero.
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I see where you are trying to go with this and on the surface it makes sense. Consider these thoughts for a moment:

First we need to determine how you are defining "spread". It could be argued that Spurrier utilized the spread at UF and won some NCs there. We Know Urban ran a spread set and even utilized zone read which is what I think most people who talk about the "spread' are really talking about. He will be back in the NC game with this offense this year. Kelly runs a zone read and made it to the NC game last year.

As for Saban... With the talent he has had he could run dammm near any offense he wants and the results will be the same. He has chosen to run a pro set and Bama has won several NCs over recent years.

Although Oregon has not won a NC yet, they have been a very dominant team. I'm sure any here in VN would trade results with them over the past 5 or 6 years.

I think my point is that the zone read is a really effective offense when it is fully implemented and you have a qb that can make the split second reads that it requires. Like I said before, I am old school, I was a linebacker all the way through a D1 college career and I can promise you that I would prefer to defend a pro set than to have to defend a zone read. In a pro set it's line up and whip your individual matchup and you're likely to make a play. Against a zone read if you whip your individual matchup, the QB reads that and moves to option 2, if that option is defended there is a 3rd read to defend. Only a really disciplined defense will have sustained success against this offense if run properly. I know I have simplified the heck out of this and there is so much more involved, and at the end of the day superior talent with superior preparation wins, but I really like the concept of this offense. We will see how it plays out for UT, but it will take this past season and probably one more to get it going. We need the play makers to make it successful too.

Well... That's more than I wanted to say and it was also woefully inadequate in terms of explanation, but that's my $.02. :peace2:
 
#117
#117
Dragon18 said:
I see where you are trying to go with this and on the surface it makes sense. Consider these thoughts for a moment:

First we need to determine how you are defining "spread". It could be argued that Spurrier utilized the spread at UF and won some NCs there. We Know Urban ran a spread set and even utilized zone read which is what I think most people who talk about the "spread' are really talking about. He will be back in the NC game with this offense this year. Kelly runs a zone read and made it to the NC game last year.

As for Saban... With the talent he has had he could run dammm near any offense he wants and the results will be the same. He has chosen to run a pro set and Bama has won several NCs over recent years.

Although Oregon has not won a NC yet, they have been a very dominant team. I'm sure any here in VN would trade results with them over the past 5 or 6 years.

I think my point is that the zone read is a really effective offense when it is fully implemented and you have a qb that can make the split second reads that it requires. Like I said before, I am old school, I was a linebacker all the way through a D1 college career and I can promise you that I would prefer to defend a pro set than to have to defend a zone read. In a pro set it's line up and whip your individual matchup and you're likely to make a play. Against a zone read if you whip your individual matchup, the QB reads that and moves to option 2, if that option is defended there is a 3rd read to defend. Only a really disciplined defense will have sustained success against this offense if run properly. I know I have simplified the heck out of this and there is so much more involved, and at the end of the day superior talent with superior preparation wins, but I really like the concept of this offense. We will see how it plays out for UT, but it will take this past season and probably one more to get it going. We need the play makers to make it successful too.

Well... That's more than I wanted to say and it was also woefully inadequate in terms of explanation, but that's my $.02. :peace2:
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I am not saying the read option/spread offense doesn't work, because it does. I mean these teams put up some big offensive numbers. I just think the pro style offense is better in the long run. It also gets players better prepared for the NFL. People might say that the read option/spread offense is the future but I disagree. The NFL figures most offenses out fairly quickly. First it was the wildcat, now it's the read option. Those two schemes have been figured out by the NFL DCs. The variations of the west coast and traditional pro style offense is what is the most successful.

My post was meant to show teams that run the spread type of offense fails to win championships more often that not.
 
#119
#119
Freak said:
People who think this "gimmick" offense can't work aren't paying attention.
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Exactly!...When the right talent is in place and this offense is run correctly it will be very hard to stop...I for one am very excited about the future.
 
#120
#120
BigOrangeTrain said:
I am not saying the read option/spread offense doesn't work, because it does. I mean these teams put up some big offensive numbers. I just think the pro style offense is better in the long run. It also gets players better prepared for the NFL. People might say that the read option/spread offense is the future but I disagree. The NFL figures most offenses out fairly quickly. First it was the wildcat, now it's the read option. Those two schemes have been figured out by the NFL DCs. The variations of the west coast and traditional pro style offense is what is the most successful.

My post was meant to show teams that run the spread type of offense fails to win championships more often that not.
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Wildcat is just a package built around a specific player or type of player. There is much more to the zone read/read option than just that. Time will tell what happens with this new scheme on offense. My thought is that once the physicality gets injected into the blocking schemes you will find it to be much more effective than pro style sets. But I don't know that. I did try to explain why it is more difficult to defend in my opinion. I would love to get your feedback on what makes a pro style set more difficult to defend. :peace2:

Edit: I also believe that part of why you don't see pro teams adopting it more is because of the HUGE investment that teams make in their QB. They are protecting that investment by not having a system that depends on the QB running the ball.
 
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#122
#122
Did not read everyone's reply but on the spread offense but there's one thing you must have and if you do not have it there's no need to do it..,..,,speed speed speed speed speed.... We do not have speed anywhere and we will not be very good until we get speed speed speed speed!!!!!! I'm sorry just trying to make a point!!!!!
 
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#123
#123
tarvol73 said:
I wouldn't disagree.

We will have that TB in Hurd next year. Ferguson is fearless and ran a system quite similar in HS. Dobbs may pick it up, but Ferguson seems the best fit. He is awesome throwing it on the run as well as in the pocket.... Again, Ferguson is quite fearless.
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I have to see it first. I am very excited about both. Go Vols!
 
#125
#125
Vol8188 said:
Lol so unless we run straight ahead into "a" gap all night, you're not satisfied?
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If the offense gets first downs and stays on the field I'm satisfied. Running or passing sideways does not seem to achieve that goal in this conference (unless we play against our own defense - maybe that's the problem where in practice our offense seem to get it working but they forget the unfortunate fact that Jancek cannot coach against our offense on Saturdays).
 
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