New Arizona Immigration Law

#151
#151
utvolpj said:
you're acting like they will be setting up ID stands on corners in south Phoenix. The police don't have the time for that. They weren't even allowed to ask if a person was under suspicion of a crime. Most will be caught during traffic stops while driving with no license, no insurance and a stolen license plate.
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That's fine since everybody on here is saying a driver's license is sufficient to prove your a citizen or legally in the country.

So, how does that change laws that are currently in place in Arizona?
 
#152
#152
paul1454 said:
It requires police and prosecutors to attempt to determine whether someone in custody is an illegal. It also requires them follow up on the issue by transferring them to ICE officials (immigration customs enforcement). None of this was required before. It does some other things, but those are not very controversial. However, when you actually look at what they are doing, it is much less controversial than has been argued by the media.
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Again, that's fine. But you just better to that with Everybody than
 
#154
#154
UTVolpj said on the last page, "ever heard "license and registration please" from a cop? Also applies if you ever want a passport"

that was in response to me when I said I've never been asked to prove I was a legal citizen.
 
#155
#155
Cash Vallin said:
That's fine since everybody on here is saying a driver's license is sufficient to prove your a citizen or legally in the country.

So, how does that change laws that are currently in place in Arizona?
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I posted an extremely brief response a couple replies back.
 
#156
#156
Ok.

My point was a drivers license proves you have a drivers license. Thats about it. There is a reason why it takes 4 hrs. to get a new photo for a current DL at the DMV.
 
#158
#158
utvolpj said:
please tell me how an illegal will get an AZ driver's license

http://mvd.azdot.gov/mvd/formsandpub/viewPDF.asp?lngProductKey=1410&lngFormInfoKey=1410

then add things like registration and insurance and it will be easy to catch plenty. There's a reason why auto insurance in AZ is at least 3x what I pay in VA.
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If this was directed at my post, I was referring to what I have witnessed in Tn mainly over the last 10 yrs. In which case you could get a TN license without being legal.
 
#159
#159
Cash Vallin said:
yeah, I get that... How does this law change that??

Just seems if there's already probable cause to arrest somebody, what's the point of this law?
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I'm just spitballing here, but perhaps the point is that they aren't currently now doing so, or not in all cases, and the AZ legislature feels that they need to compel them to do so.

You know, the reason that 99% of all laws are made.

A better question might be to inquire how you're so exacting on the intricate nuance of each of these legal issues.....only to advance your defense of those who are illegally here.

That's foolish nonsense. And somewhere deep inside, likely where mommy's alcoholism wounded you, you know it.
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#160
#160
#161
#161
Cash Vallin said:
southern baptist/religious??? I beg to differ... Your insults to EVERYBODY who doesn't have an opinion you observe is more trolling than anything else on here.
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truth is trolling?.....you are an ignorant fool.....That is straight from this christian....the Bible tells me not to lie even if it means telling someone what they are

By the way, I do not call "everybody" who differs from me anything....just the idiots that spew the truely stupid stuff that only sounds good in thier own minds
 
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#162
#162
I have a friend who is a TBI Agent. I've asked him about this. His reply shed some much-needed insight into this issue, and may serve to provide some framework surrounding this AZ law.

ICE dictates what cases they will prosecute or not, and as the deportation process is a Federal one, if they refuse to do anything about it, nothing can be done. In the vast majority of cases where an illegal alien is charged with a crime, they are referred to ICE for the initiation of the prosecutorial and deportation process (arising from their illegal status, and not necessarily in regards to the particular charge against them) - ICE simply refuses to do anything about it, and no deportation process can then otherwise take place.
Apparently, AZ is simply trying to force ICE to enforce the federal laws which they now so often ignore, admittedly, amongst other things contained in the statute.
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#163
#163
Tenacious D said:
I have a friend who is a TBI Agent. I've asked him about this. His reply shed some much-needed insight into this issue, and may serve to provide some framework surrounding this AZ law.

ICE dictates what cases they will prosecute or not, and as the deportation process is a Federal one, if they refuse to do anything about it, nothing can be done. In the vast majority of cases where an illegal alien is charged with a crime, they are referred to ICE for the initiation of the prosecutorial and deportation process (arising from their illegal status, and not necessarily in regards to the particular charge against them) - ICE simply refuses to do so. Essentially, everyone knows that they are here illegally, but ICE refuses to do anything about it.

Apparently, AZ is simply trying to force ICE to enforce the federal laws which they now so often ignore, admittedly, amongst other things contained in the statute.
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I have a friend with similar information. I have not spoken to him lately, but he stated pretty much the same about ICE in the past. And it makes sense with what you see day to day.
 
#164
#164
Take 10 states, each with 100 illegal aliens.

Now, one of those states enacts sweeping and substantive laws to curb the influx of illegal aliens. Let's say it's 50% effective, resulting in the displacement of 50 of the original 100 illegal aliens to those other states without such laws. Now, that state has 50 illegals remaining, and the other nine see their illegal alien population grow by approximately 5 illegal aliens.

Now, imagine that a second state enacts similiar laws, and they also effectively reduce their illegal alien populations by 50%. That 50% is now distributed throughout the remaining 8 states without such laws, and their population grows, both again and accordingly.

Who wants to live in one of the last few states to enact such a law?

I pray - pray - that Obama's DOJ inquiry is successful, and that they find grounds to challenge the AZ law. If they do, I hope that they take it all the way to the Supreme Court and Chief Justice Roberts - just for the sheer spectacle of hearing a federal lawyer argue that they can't be forced to enforce.....wait for it.........federal law.

Oh, it'll be like Christmas (or, Festival of Winter Solstice for my separatist friends in the audience).
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#165
#165
Tenacious D said:
I pray - pray - that Obama's DOJ inquiry is successful, and that they find grounds to challenge the AZ law. If they do, I hope that they take it all the way to the Supreme Court and Chief Justice Roberts - just for the sheer spectacle of hearing a federal lawyer argue that they can't be forced to enforce.....wait for it.........federal law.

Oh, it'll be like Christmas (or, Festival of Winter Solstice for my separatist friends in the audience).
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Hate to break it to you, but the Supreme Court has been expressly allowed discretion in enforcement for longer than any of us have been around. At this point, it is simply settled law. A government agency doesn't have to enforce anything unless laws expressly remove their discretion in a manner other than simply making an offense illegal (i.e., has to require something like, "the district attorney shall enforce . . .").
 
#166
#166
Cash Vallin said:
only thing i'll add is, if legal hispanics got to prove their legal status when breaking the law, than EVERYBODY should have to prove it.
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You are truly nuts. OklaVol needs to poke his head in here and explain what Oklahoma did, and over the objections of the feds.

Are you aware that there is a "safe cities" list that is provided to illegals as they start their trip to the U.S.? Everyone that is arrested in Irving, TX that cannot show their legal status is turned over to ICE. Irving got tired of being a favorite on the "safe city" list.

You keep railing against the AZ bill, yet you obviously have not read it and have no idea how these people will be identified.
 
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#168
#168
Cash Vallin said:
only thing i'll add is, if legal hispanics got to prove their legal status when breaking the law, than EVERYBODY should have to prove it.
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You remind me of the people who used to complain about Arabs being selected for random searches at airports after 911.
 
#170
#170
tvolsfan said:
You remind me of the people who used to complain about Arabs being selected for random searches at airports after 911.
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and that was OK with you??? Lets see some crazy Arabs did something horrible to this country, so that gives us a right to question all Arabs???? Just a horrible opinion to have, my friend. Civil Rights truly mean nothing to republicans.
 
#171
#171
T-TownVol said:
truth is trolling?.....you are an ignorant fool.....That is straight from this christian....the Bible tells me not to lie even if it means telling someone what they are

By the way, I do not call "everybody" who differs from me anything....just the idiots that spew the truely stupid stuff that only sounds good in thier own minds
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the best reason yet to question all southern baptists
 
#172
#172
Cash Vallin said:
and that was OK with you??? Lets see some crazy Arabs did something horrible to this country, so that gives us a right to question all Arabs???? Just a horrible opinion to have, my friend. Civil Rights truly mean nothing to republicans.
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Just like common sense truly means nothing to Democrats. How many white people cross the boarder from Mexico to Arizona? If they suspect a white person of being an illegal immigrant, they'll take care of it. In the mean time, there's no reason to let liberal guilt get in the way of common sense.
 
#173
#173
A new Rasmussen poll reveals that 70% of likely voters in Arizona support the new illegal immigration bill passed by the State Legislature. Only 23% oppose the bill.
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The Rasmussen poll reflected bipartisan support for the bill in Arizona. Eighty-four percent of Republicans support it -- but so do 51 percent of Democrats. Forty-three percent of Democrats oppose it.
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A majority of Arizona likely voters (53%), however, did express concern about if the bill will cause racial profiling. Forty-six percent expressed no concern.
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some interesting numbers from AZ
 
#174
#174
Cash Vallin said:
and that was OK with you??? Lets see some crazy Arabs did something horrible to this country, so that gives us a right to question all Arabs???? Just a horrible opinion to have, my friend. Civil Rights truly mean nothing to republicans.
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Like it or not profiling works and is one of the best tools officers and officials can use to deter and solve crime. There is a fine line that needs to be constantly watched though, that much I'll agree with. In extraordinary circumstances there comes a time when civil rights themselves are threatened by those that will use this concept and right afforded Americans against us. I see no problem with a few extra questions or checking to see that all documentation is valid and legal.

I too grew up in Antioch, it never was a great place but 15 to 20 years ago it was much nicer and crime was much lower than it is now. Sure there are gangs and many of them are made up of legal citizens, on the other hand there are some like BP and MS 13 that are largely comprised of illegals or children of illegals and they add a whole new dynamic to the current problems there.

Profiling happens every day, it happened to me fairly regularly in Antioch when I was a teenager, the cops would pull you over for no reason other than you were a young male who was likely to be involved in some sort of criminal activity. Like it or not the cops have a tough job and getting every possibly weapon or gang member/criminal off the street is their aim. I don't think it should be any different with illegals, sure you may inconvenience some legal citizens but they should and probably will be more than happy to endure a few extra questions because there are so many going about it the wrong way and giving the law abiding citizens bad names.
 
#175
#175
Wonder if most everyone realizes that between 40-70%, because we can't accurately count them, of the people who don't have health-care are these illegal immigrants?? Can't wait to give these people a Cadillac plan to break the rules.
 
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