New Pay Raise for Fulmer Announced (Merged)

What Do you think about Fulmer's raise?

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#127
#127
sjt18 said:
I wasn't speaking to performance. I was speaking to the explicit point that you shouldn't give someone a raise unless you fear they'll leave.

You pay for performance of course but good companies don't punish performing, loyal employees simply because they don't think they'll leave.
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You have no fear of them leaving if they do not perform, thus no reason to give a raise.

How is he performing or loyal? If someone is loyal, why do they need a raise?
 
#129
#129
Vol423 said:
I have no use for anyone that believes that last season was a good season for UT football. We got absolutely MANGLED in our two most important rivalry games.
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No it wasnt heaven but it flies in the face of saying CPF is worthless.
 
#130
#130
Vol423 said:
The Clapper is not competitive. He's just riding a gravy train. I've also never seen anyone with the plethora of excuses that Fulmer makes for his consistent failures to have this team ready to play.
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How many times did we have to hear Fulmer complain about an alleged clip in the Cal game? He's just an excuse machine.
 
#132
#132
Interesting thread, long but I appreciate the homework and analysis involved. I may be in the minority here, but I really don't think this contract is a big deal, nor a sign of the apocalypse.

There are two factors here: 1) The amount of money, and 2) length of contract. I believe Fulmer's $3 million salary to be fair based on the market. I also believe that by extending a contract you are showing faith and confidence in your coach's abilities to perform the job in the future. And in almost all businesses, the effect is almost always some form of increased compensation. So for that, I don't believe the value of the contract to be significant. A vote of approval is a yes or no question. Fulmer got the yes, so now we got to pay him.

In case you don't know, Fulmer's agent is Jimmy Sexton. Yeah, he's the guy who got Saban a 8 yr. $32 million contract with a clause that he can leave the program at any time, for any reason. A big gamble for UA considering Saban's sketchy past and .500 record at most places except LSU. He also got Tuberville a big check and lengthy contract despite only one sec championship and pure dislike Tubby and the A.D. have for eachother (AU interviewing Petrino behind Tubby's back, rumors of Tubby interviewing for every job that comes open elsewhere, etc.) Again, a "W" for Sexton's client. And then there is Houston Nutt. Who had the leverage to increase demands at Arkansas, because there was already an offer under the table from Ole Miss. In conclusion, the guy is good, and he gets what he wants.

So now its time to take care of ol' Phil.....for life. This is gonna be the easiest deal Sexton's ever made. Despite the fact that most UT fans are dissatisfied with the our most recent successes and lack of championships, Phil put hisself in the driver's seat with his eastern title and 10 win season last year. It is all about timing. And even though its been a decade since any form of championship, that one big one in 98 still carries some heady weight. Not only is all the other coaches in this elite class cashing big checks, but the others who are on the threshold of greatness (Tubby, Richt) are also breaking AD's banks. So considering the past successess of CPF and the inability to have sufficient reasonable doubt against his current roster's potential, his $3 mil. is reasonable compared to all other sec coaches.

As far as the length, I really don't see any scenario where CPF would still be here in 7 years. The $5 mil buyout clause solidifies my beliefs. I believe there are two scenarios that are most likely to come of Fulmer's legacy. Both scenarios were created with the hiring of the new offensive regime and could be summarized by saying Fulmer is rolling the dice.

The first is we continue to lose in the sec championship game and piss away NFL talent. After 3, maybe even 2 years of this, Fulmer is beheaded and his new staff unfortunately drowns because they jumped on this sinking ship called UT football. However, the Fulmer family will be okay because Phil, knowing that this scenario was highly probable, put a 5 yr. buyout clause in his contract years prior. So for all you Fulmer haters, consider the buyout clause a reason to postpone the apocalypse despite the lengthy contract.

The second scenario is one of which most people would like to see. But there is more than meets the eye. Don't quote my numbrers on this but I believe Fulmer is around 25-40 wins away from surpassing Gen. Neyland in all-time UT wins and second to only the Bear in SEC wins. And if you think that the a.d. and the program are not concious of nor desire these records, you are very naive. But most importantly, there are no excuses why Fulmer and staff couldn't add another sec or national championship within this 3 year period in 2009-10. If Fulmer doesn't produce championships within this period, he is bought out/walks away with records in belt, a national championship, a hella legacy. If he does win another championship, well I'm sure we won't mind him staying around for the full 7 years with Nunes and company.

Either way, the reigns will be turned over to Clawson as long as the ship doesn't sink from the get go, and his offense is modern and super competitive.

I believe Fulmer deserves one last chance with this new staff. And I think everyone of us would love to hold these records and celebrate his accomplishments.
 
#133
#133
Fine Vol said:
No it wasnt heaven but it flies in the face of saying CPF is worthless.
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Fulmer's not worthless. He's worth about $3 million per year to produce a middle-of-the-pack team that gets drilled in the games that matter.
 
#134
#134
What about Pat? The revenue is not there in lady sports but she deserves more than Pearl.
 
#135
#135
Guys I know he has lost some zip and his play calls are very boring and predictable but he does have a very good record. I see both sides of this debate being valid. Everyone would run their company different.
 
#136
#136
Vol423 said:
First of all, I don't think we'll have a Top 10 class this year.
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They're off to a very decent start.
Second of all, having a Top 10 class every few years gets you left behind in the SEC these days. There are three or four other SEC teams that are consistently in the Top 10 in recruiting these days. Fulmer's best asset has always been that he's a strong recruiter.
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Hasn't done so for UT or Aub yet. Both are competing and both have about the same recruiting class avg.

However, he's now about the fifth best recruiter in the conference,
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Nope. He does more with less instate talent than any of the rest. Mississippi has more instate talent than Tn... How would you like to be one of those schools right now?
and he's an atrocious game-day coach.
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"Atrocious"... No. That definitely isn't a strength though. He's probably somewhere mid-pack in the SEC. Better than Miles, Nutt, Croom... not as good as Meyer, Saban, Spurrier.
 
#137
#137
Vol423 said:
I have no use for anyone that believes that last season was a good season for UT football. We got absolutely MANGLED in our two most important rivalry games.
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But but but... we played in Atlanta and played in a New Years Day bowl... whoooo. Lets back up the Brinks truck for Fulmer.
 
#139
#139
Wow!!!! This debate never even comes close to ending and nobody on either side of it ever gives in to the opposing view or makes any kind of dent in the opinion of someone with the opposite view of Fulmer...

You know....I've heard doing the same thing and expecting differant results (i.e. arguing against/for Fulmer in hopes that someone on the other side of it will come to their senses) is the exact definition of something....what was it again?
 
#140
#140
Rasputin_Vol said:
How many times did we have to hear Fulmer complain about an alleged clip in the Cal game? He's just an excuse machine.
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I watched that clip several times... there's no "alleged" to it. I saw two clear clips within 10 yds of where the ball was caught and then another close one later.

FTR, I didn't read where he referenced that very much at all. He mentioned it... which wasn't inappropriate since it was blatant.
 
#141
#141
Loses with Bama and FL this year would get the orange blood flowin in many a fan. I hope CPF shows us he can rebound with these key games.
 
#142
#142
blamie said:
You know....I've heard doing the same thing and expecting differant results (i.e. arguing against/for Fulmer in hopes that someone on the other side of it will come to their senses) is the exact definition of something....what was it again?
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Wait for it....
 
#143
#143
Fine Vol said:
Loses with Bama and FL this year would get the orange blood flowin in many a fan. I hope CPF shows us he can rebound with these key games.
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This crap all started after the loss to LSU in 01.

Spurrier left and the SEC was his and Fulmer simply rolled over......

:cray:
 
#144
#144
sjt18 said:
Yes. And most of them DID NOT have stable, quality coaches. UGA, Bama, Aub, LSU, and USC all left the doors of their states wide open for UT to come in and cherry pick. UT could truthfully say your school isn't competitive and doesn't have the coach to get there. That can't be said now.

You are a smart guy. I'm not sure how you can't see that.
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But now they do have quality coaches... and that is the point. Once better coaches got into the league, Fulmer's 1990's success disappeared. His recruiting suffered and the coaches were able to outperform him in head to head match ups.

That is a reason to put a coach on notice, not hand him the keys to the Cadillac.
 
#145
#145
insanity.jpg
 
#150
#150
Rasputin_Vol said:
But but but... we played in Atlanta and played in a New Years Day bowl... whoooo. Lets back up the Brinks truck for Fulmer.
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See that's what's so irratating and irrational with the way you guys argue.

You say it is hopeless. We point out the moderate level of success because it refutes the notion that it is hopeless.

You then go into the blathering straw man routine as if any of us are completely satisfied with less than championships.

Just to retrace some of the basics of logic. Close is closer than far away. SEC runner up is closer than SECE 4th place.

Moderate success is better than little success- ie UT vs UK in 07.

Moderate success is a better platform than little to no success for reaching the next level. Spurrier took over a failing program and still hasn't gotten above 4th. Meyer took over a mediocre program and won an NC two years later.
 
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