Nick Sabans 1st year at Bama

#127
#127
champyvol said:
big difference was that satan had an NC already and everybody knew he could coach. with jones we don't have that or i would be a lot more patient
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Saban would have never won a NC if LSU didn't hire him.. Butch Jones' resume was much more impressive before he landed his first SEC job. Time will tell if BJ gets it done, one thing I'm 100% sure of is the results of this season have nothing to do with the results of the next few seasons. Recruiting is key and right now were in good shape.
 
#128
#128
oregonvol said:
Kind of like how Butch Jones "just held serve" for Brian Kelly built teams? Well, except for that time he went 4-8...



Actually, Saban and Spurrier each won 1 more game in their first year than their predecessors. That means they did move forward (not sure why Holtz is included. Does anyone ever say, "we want our coach to have the kind of success that Lou Holtz did at South Carolina!" Talk about aiming low).
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Butch Jones' first season at Cincy lost 11 senior starters. 5 on offense and 6 on defense.

Also don't let one of the toughest schedules ever influence any of those rational thoughts of yours.

Please continue to avoid all facts and reality when bashing BJ, it makes it so easy to defend him.
 
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#131
#131
KingtUT said:
Saban would have never won a NC if LSU didn't hire him.. Butch Jones' resume was much more impressive before he landed his first SEC job. Time will tell if BJ gets it done, one thing I'm 100% sure of is the results of this season have nothing to do with the results of the next few seasons. Recruiting is key and right now were in good shape.
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Keep dreaming. Winning the big east on a tiebreaker is hardly impressive.. He couldn't even get highly ranked there. West Virginia didn't have a problem moving up the ranks. Louisville did the same. But Butch couldn't.

Slow your roll, excuse makers...
 
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#133
#133
Wylo said:
Keep dreaming. Winning the big east on a tiebreaker is hardly impressive.. He couldn't even get highly ranked there. West Virginia didn't have a problem moving up the ranks. Louisville did the same. But Butch couldn't.

Slow your roll, excuse makers...
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Technically, he lost the Big East on a tiebreaker.
 
#134
#134
KingtUT said:
Butch Jones' first season at Cincy lost 11 senior starters. 5 on offense and 6 on defense.

Also don't let one of the toughest schedules ever influence any of those rational thoughts of yours.

Please continue to avoid all facts and reality when bashing BJ, it makes it so easy to defend him.
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So you're making my point for me. He "just held serve" (as CrazyIvan said) for teams Brian Kelly built, except when he lost some players, and then he went 4-8.

And, you know, it's funny how you say you want to talk about "facts", but folks like you keep posting this "toughest schedule ever" thing without any data to back that up. We won't finish with even the toughest schedule in college football FOR THIS YEAR. To say nothing about "ever". We lost to a 7/8 loss UF team that just lost to Georgia Southern. We lost to Vanderbilt.
 
#135
#135
Wylo said:
Keep dreaming. Winning the big east on a tiebreaker is hardly impressive.. He couldn't even get highly ranked there. West Virginia didn't have a problem moving up the ranks. Louisville did the same. But Butch couldn't.

Slow your roll, excuse makers...
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Tell me what Saban did that was so much more impressive before LSU hired him.

Slow your troll...
 
#136
#136
oregonvol said:
So you're making my point for me. He "just held serve" (as CrazyIvan said) for teams Brian Kelly built, except when he lost some players, and then he went 4-8.

And, you know, it's funny how you say you want to talk about "facts", but folks like you keep posting this "toughest schedule ever" thing without any data to back that up. We won't finish with even the toughest schedule in college football FOR THIS YEAR. To say nothing about "ever". We lost to a 7/8 loss UF team that just lost to Georgia Southern. We lost to Vanderbilt.
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Notice I said one of the toughest schedules ever, not "the toughest schedule ever".

If you think we didn't play a very tough schedule, this conversation is over cause there's no hope for ya.
 
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#137
#137
KingtUT said:
Tell me what Saban did that was so much more impressive before LSU hired him.

Slow your troll...
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I never said Saban was impressive at MSU, obviously the Big 10 was a much tougher league than the big east... So LSU knew they were getting a quality guy.
 
#139
#139
KingtUT said:
Saban would have never won a NC if LSU didn't hire him.. Butch Jones' resume was much more impressive before he landed his first SEC job.
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Huh? Saban had Michigan State ranked in the top 10 (after taking over a team that went winless 5 years earlier) in the nation when LSU hired him. Butch has never had a team ranked in the top 20. He had never beaten a top 25 team in his entire career when he got the UT job (by contrast Saban had beaten around 9 or 10 top 25 teams in his time at Michigan State).
 
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#141
#141
oregonvol said:
Huh? Saban had Michigan State ranked in the top 10 (after taking over a team that went winless 5 years earlier) in the nation when LSU hired him. Butch has never had a team ranked in the top 20. He had never beaten a top 25 team in his entire career when he got the UT job.
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Saban had one good year at Mich st. (His 3rdseason) And two very mediocre seasons his his first two.
 
#143
#143
oregonvol said:
Yeah, I guess adding 6 wins to the record of your predecessor doesn't count as a "good" season. Makes sense.
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Might want to check those facts. The three years prior to Saban, Mich St went 5-6, 6-6, and 5-6.

Sabans first three years 6-5-1, 6-6, and 7-5. Then another 6-6 and finally a 10-2 season.

I guess you got me, he had 3 more wins over a three year period than his predecessor did the prior three years. WOW!
 
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#144
#144
KingtUT said:
Might want to check those facts.
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Michigan State's official record was 0-11 in 1994, and 6-5-1 in 1995 (when Saban took over). But, I see now where they actually forfeited 5 of those games.

But even if you ignore the forfeits and NCAA sanctions, he still improved a 5-6 team to a 6-5 team. Would you not have thought it a good season if Butch had improved a 5 win team from last year to a 6 win team this year. Holding Butch Jones to the same standard as Nick Saban, how many games does he need to win to have a "good" season in your estimation (since you've already said Saban's 6 and 7 win seasons at Michigan State were not good)?
 
#145
#145
oregonvol said:
Michigan State's official record was 0-11 in 1994, and 6-5-1 in 1995 (when Saban took over). But, I see now where they actually forfeited 5 of those games.

But even if you ignore the forfeits and NCAA sanctions, he still improved a 5-6 team to a 6-5 team. Would you not have thought it a good season if Butch had improved a 5 win team from last year to a 6 win team this year. Holding Butch Jones to the same standard as Nick Saban, how many games does he need to win to have a "good" season in your estimation (since you've already said Saban's 6 and 7 win seasons at Michigan State were not good)?
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Bottom line is it took the all mighty Saban 5 years to take a program that was basically in about the same shape were in to a better than average season and he only had to do it against the Big Ten.

To answer you question, after 5 years if BJ doesn't win at least 10 games just like Saban did, I'll be ready for a change.
 
#146
#146
KingtUT said:
Might want to check those facts. The three years prior to Saban, Mich St went 5-6, 6-6, and 5-6.

Sabans first three years 6-5-1, 6-6, and 7-5. Then another 6-6 and finally a 10-2 season.

I guess you got me, he had 3 more wins over a three year period than his predecessor did the prior three years. WOW!
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How much did Jones improve on his predecessors again?

...Once again, you said this:

KingtUT said:
Butch Jones' resume was much more impressive before he landed his first SEC job.
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And ONCE AGAIN, I ask what Butch Jones did that was better than Saban finishing in the top 10 at Michigan State and beating (on average) 2 top 25 teams a year during his time there? Butch Jones had never finished anywhere near the top 10 or beaten a top 25 team.
 
#149
#149
CountVolcula said:
9-2 is Tubbervilles record with a new staff, new offense, and same players at Cincinnati

All this talk about he needs his players, its a new scheme, and any other excuses why we have underperformed after the USC game is exactly that.....Excuses
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So to analyze a situation without looking at all the parameters seems to be irresponsible. Cincinatti didnt have much of a downfall in talent resulting from 3+ years of coaching changes. Let Tubby leave after a year, get another coach fire them, and then see if the next coach endures the pleasantly handed over program compared to what tubberville has at the time. Im not saying CBJ is turning things around necessarily ever for UT, but how can you justify saying it shouldve happened by now? Another way to look at it, if some awesome coach goes to Kentucky tomorrow and says Im going to turn this program around, is it really reasonable that their going to go 10-2 or even 8-4 or bowl eligible. No probably not just my opnion though.



some of the 3+ years of coaching changes might not be accurate, just saying the situation is different
 
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#150
#150
oregonvol said:
How much did Jones improve on his predecessors again?

...Once again, you said this:



And ONCE AGAIN, I ask what Butch Jones did that was better than Saban finishing in the top 10 at Michigan State and beating (on average) 2 top 25 teams a year during his time there? Butch Jones had never finished anywhere near the top 10 or beaten a top 25 team.
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By the way , Butch Jones was not as successful as Brian Kelly was at Cincy, I will not argue that. However, I have no doubt he would have done just as well if not better than Tuberville has done with this years team.
 
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