No one is Underpaid

[C-south]

Why not?

Because the general population doesn’t rely on them to survive. They aren’t essential. The only thing essential is the customers they would have served.

 

[Vol423]

Let me ask you a question. Did you see restaurant workers as during this pandemic? If not, then explain why.

You think that sentence makes perfect sense. Okay. Add generally uneducated to your list of issues.

 

[Vol423]

No. It makes perfect sense. You just don't want to answer the question because it will make you look bad.

I used to work in restaurants when I was younger, idiot. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[DonjoVol]

Because the general population doesn’t rely on them to survive. They aren’t essential. The only thing essential is the customers they would have served.

Actually restaurants were considered essential during this pandemic. And considering that many saw a boost in sales during the pandemic then that should tell you something.

Many people do rely on them to survive. Why? Because many people simply cannot make their own meals. I have met people before who seem to get almost every single meal from a restaurant. Which of course is their choice how the spend their money. I couldn't imagine living like that but I also like to cook.

 

[DonjoVol]

I used to work in restaurants when I was younger, idiot. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Then you should know how important they are to society.

 

[DonjoVol]

You think that sentence makes sense. Okay. Add uneducated to your list of issues.

Someone else answered the question without a problem.

 

[C-south]

Actually restaurants were considered essential during this pandemic. And considering that many saw a boost in sales during the pandemic then that should tell you something.

Many people do rely on them to survive. Why? Because many people simply cannot make their own meals. I have met people before who seem to get almost every single meal from a restaurant. Which of course is their choice how the spend their money. I couldn't imagine living like that but I also like to cook.

Are you related to luther?

 

[Vol423]

Someone else answered the question without a problem.

I answered the question once you made it make sense. I also answered the exact same post the other guy did - the post that actually made sense. Perhaps you should try reading previous posts.

 

[Vol423]

Are you related to luther?

Apparently.

 

[Vol423]

Many people do rely on them to survive. Why? Because many people simply cannot make their own meals.

This is hilarious. People CHOOSE not to make their own meals. You don't even have to know how to cook to eat at home. You'd be surprised how quickly people could adapt when they have no choice.

 

[C-south]

Actually restaurants were considered essential during this pandemic. And considering that many saw a boost in sales during the pandemic then that should tell you something.

Many people do rely on them to survive. Why? Because many people simply cannot make their own meals. I have met people before who seem to get almost every single meal from a restaurant. Which of course is their choice how the spend their money. I couldn't imagine living like that but I also like to cook.

Restaurants aren’t essential in any way and many shut down during the pandemic. Many of the ones open only did carry out. People supported these businesses, not out of necessity but as support to keep them afloat.

 

[Vol423]

Actually restaurants were considered essential during this pandemic. And considering that many saw a boost in sales during the pandemic then that should tell you something.

Once again, you exhibit zero reading comprehension, and you're twisting somebody else's words again.

Your question that you posted that he responded to was, "Do you consider restaurant workers as essential during this pandemic? Yes or no? Simple question."

There is not one person on this forum that doesn't realize that restaurants were classified by the government as essential businesses and that restaurants were actually open during the pandemic. You asked do WE consider restaurant workers as essential. That question has been answered by a couple of us. As usual, you don't like the answer, so you start twisting our words.

 

[1world1love]

1. If they could get better jobs, then idk what the problem is. You’re claiming they decided to work at a job that you personally consider underpaid? Then why’s that a problem if you believe they have other options but don’t pick those options? I’m not following.

2. agree to disagree

3. Not a strawman at all. If what you’re claiming is true, then you’ve found a source of tremendous economic value. Let’s pretend women really do only make 75 cents to the dollar. If so, you could hire nothing but women, pay them 80 cents to the dollar and still have a 20% advantage over a company primarily hiring men.

I’m not sure what in any of my replies you consider to be a rhetorical fallacy but I’d gladly address those too

It is interesting you claim you don’t believe anything without verifying yourself but you also stated a well known economic fallacy that women make less than men. So did you verify that claim?

Once you adjust for fact that men work more hours, more overtime, and you adjust for equal work experience you find there is no gap. Now the median income for a woman in general is lower than the median income for a man in general. But not in the same field with the same level of experience. In fact women make up the majority of high paying jobs outside of tech, engineering, and trades

https://www.shrm.org/hr-today/public-policy/hr-public-policy-issues/Documents/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

Thank you again for your response. Again, you seem to be laboring under the assumption that hourly wage is the sole, driving factor in determining what people choose to do for a living. In a perfect, completely free market economy, that might be true. But we do not live in a free market economy.

As far as #3 goes, again, if you do not understand why this is a strawman, then it is beyond explanation in a forum like this. But suffice it to say, saying "if I think people are underpaid I should start a company and pay them more", is clearly a strawman. There is no logical response to an illogical suggestion.

As far as the Cansad study - give me a break. That paper was from 2009 and has been refuted in every way possible. It has literally been beaten to death but somehow people still refer to it even though by 2010 it was accepted as qualitative at best. If you want me to cite data from the same study that refutes your argument, I am happy to, but it is equally as meaningless.

From FOX news -

The pay gap: women earn less than men, and one study suggests 77% of men’s pay. Others argue that no, the wage gap is actually just 93% to 95%, according to analysts, citing 2009 research commissioned by the Dept. of Labor, a much smaller gap that takes into account women who, say, leave work to have babies or take care of senior parents or work part-time jobs.

But a closer look at the analysis shows that even the Labor study repeatedly warned the evidence for a U.S. pay gap of 93% to 95% is not conclusive. In addition, studies worldwide show women do earn far less in wages compared to what men earn.

The study by Consad Research Corp. commissioned by the U.S. Department of Labor examined more than 50 peer-reviewed papers and estimated that the 77% wage gap "may be almost entirely the result of individual choices being made by both male and female workers."

But the researchers also warned that either they did not have enough long-term data or the studies they looked at had too few workers to definitively ascertain why exactly the wage gap exists, as well as the size of it.

The government researchers also warned they did not have enough data to ascertain the impact of various factors like work experience, tenure, occupation and industry to deliver “adequate analysis” of what the true wage gap really is.

Specifically, the Consad researchers warned that “data bases that contain such information include too few workers, however, to support adequate analysis of factors like occupation and industry” or “do not collect data on individual workers over long enough periods to support adequate analysis of factors like work experience and job tenure.”

You seem like a reasonable person. I was hoping for more, but if you cannot see the fallacy in your argument, then we will just have to agree to disagree. Again, I think that is okay. I don't feel inclined to convince you either way. I come here to talk football. I just thought you had a new perspective on this topic that might be interesting.

 

[Vol423]

Then you should know how important they are to society.

They're a convenience....nothing more. If 100% of restaurants folded tomorrow, it would be a massive disruption to the economy. That doesn't make them essential. People could survive without them.

 

[DonjoVol]

Are you related to luther?

No. But I've spent over a decade of my working career in restaurants. Some of it working part time while working another full time job. I know a lot of people who can't live without restaurants. That's a fact and even you know that.

All I'm saying is the people working in them should be respected more by society. In addition to that many of them should be paid more by the companies they are working for. Some companies are doing the right thing and paying more now. I personally think if they pay more then they are likely to attract higher quality workers. Chik Fil A being a perfect example. Even though I think their food is mediocre at best.

 

[DonjoVol]

Restaurants aren’t essential in any way and many shut down during the pandemic. Many of the ones open only did carry out. People supported these businesses, not out of necessity but as support to keep them afloat.

They supported and ate there because many people also cannot live without them.

So would you also say that people kept liquor stores open as support to keep them afloat?

 

[C-south]

No. But I've spent over a decade of my working career in restaurants. Some of it working part time while working another full time job. I know a lot of people who can't live without restaurants. That's a fact and even you know that.

All I'm saying is the people working in them should be respected more by society. In addition to that many of them should be paid more by the companies they are working for. Some companies are doing the right thing and paying more now. I personally think if they pay more then they are likely to attract higher quality workers. Chik Fil A being a perfect example. Even though I think their food is mediocre at best.

Lol. Horsesh*t. People could survive easily without any restaurants. If ANYONE needs a restaurant to survive then Darwinism needs to take affect.

 

[C-south]

They supported and ate there because many people also cannot live without them.

So would you also say that people kept liquor stores open as support to keep them afloat?

I’m saying you could shut them all down and people will survive. Neither are a necessity for survival.

 

[DonjoVol]

They're a convenience....nothing more. If 100% of restaurants folded tomorrow, it would be a massive disruption to the economy. That doesn't make them essential. People could survive without them.

These restaurants also provide food to other "essential" workers on a regular basis. Many of them would disagree with you about them being essential. Truck drivers are also essential but guess what's usually inside every truck stop. A restaurant.

And no I actually believe some people could not survive without them. There are people out who don't know how to make their own meals or just flat out lazy.

The liquor store is much more of a convenience than a restaurant.

 

[DonjoVol]

I’m saying you could shut them all down and people will survive. Neither are a necessity for survival.

There are people that would go crazy without both. I don't drink anymore so I'm fine without liquor stores. But I still enjoy meals from restaurants at least a few times a week.

Both are in business and make money because there services are a necessity for a lot of people.

 

[C-south]

These restaurants also provide food to other "essential" workers on a regular basis. Many of them would disagree with you about them being essential. Truck drivers are also essential but guess what's usually inside every truck stop. A restaurant.

And no I actually believe some people could not survive without them. There are people out who don't know how to make their own meals or just flat out lazy.

The liquor store is much more of a convenience than a restaurant.

They could buy a lunchable or eat a pb&j and be perfectly fine.

 

[C-south]

There are people that would go crazy without both. I don't drink anymore so I'm fine without liquor stores. But I still enjoy meals from restaurants at least a few times a week.

Both are in business and make money because there services are a necessity for a lot of people.

Let them. You seem to have a vested interest. I bet you’re the kind of person that works for tips and then complains about the tips you get.

 

[DonjoVol]

They could buy a lunchable or eat a pb&j and be perfectly fine.

What if they don't like lunchables or are allergic to peanut butter? What's next? You think the government should determine what people eat?

 

[DonjoVol]

Let them. You seem to have a vested interest. I bet you’re the kind of person that works for tips and then complains about the tips you get.

I have worked for them in the past. And yes there are some bad tippers. Wouldn't surprise me if you're one of them. Bet you are a joy for the servers at the restaurants you frequent.

 

[C-south]

What if they don't like lunchables or are allergic to peanut butter? What's next? You think the government should determine what people eat?

If they were dependent on restaurants to survive in many places they did.