No one is Underpaid

[Vol423]

What if they don't like lunchables or are allergic to peanut butter? What's next? You think the government should determine what people eat?

We said restaurants aren’t essential because people can survive without them. Now, you want to change the argument to what people like. People can survive on things they don’t like.

 

[C-south]

I have worked for them in the past. And yes there are some bad tippers. Wouldn't surprise me if you're one of them. Bet you are a joy for the servers at the restaurants you frequent.

I don’t care what you think. I know anything you do, along with restaurants, are not essential. You keep making yourself look stupid with a completely asinine argument. You think things are essential because they offer convenience. You’re part of the problem.

 

[DonjoVol]

We said restaurants aren’t essential because people can survive without them. Now, you want to change the argument to what people like. People can survive on things they don’t like.

The point is. People have determined restaurants are an essential business. It's not you who determines it. You and others simply look down on people that work in that industry. Not sure why you do. Especially considering you worked for them in the past.

 

[C-south]

The point is. People have determined restaurants are an essential business. It's not you who determines it. You and others simply look down on people that work in that industry. Not sure why you do. Especially considering you worked for them in the past.

Restaurants aren’t essential in any way, shape, or form. Not sure why this is the hill you want to die on but the constant goalpost moving indicates you’re determined to do so.

 

[DonjoVol]

I don’t care what you think. I know anything you do, along with restaurants, are not essential. You keep making yourself look stupid with a completely asinine argument. You think things are essential because they offer convenience. You’re part of the problem.

It's not up to you to determine what's essential. I personally don't think liquor stores are but many other people do. How often to you eat at restaurants on a weekly or monthly basis? Or do you practice what you preach and eat lunchables and pb&j.

The point is these restaurants stayed in business during this pandemic. Many saw a boost in sales and increased profits. When they reopened dine in many people were eager to go back out to eat. Therefore it is an essential business.

 

[DonjoVol]

I don’t care what you think. I know anything you do, along with restaurants, are not essential. You keep making yourself look stupid with a completely asinine argument. You think things are essential because they offer convenience. You’re part of the problem.

It's not up to you to determine what's essential. I personally don't think liquor stores are but many other people do. How often to you eat at restaurants on a weekly or monthly basis? Or do you practice what you preach and eat lunchables and pb&j.

The point is these restaurants stayed in business during this pandemic. Many saw a boost in sales and increased profits. When they reopened dine in many people were eager to go back out to eat. Therefore it is an essential business.

We said restaurants aren’t essential because people can survive without them. Now, you want to change the argument to what people like. People can survive on things they don’t like.

Yes it's okay if people like eating out at restaurants. Nothing wrong with that. Just like there is nothing wrong with someone staying at a job they are comfortable with. Right?

 

[Vol423]

It's not up to you to determine what's essential. I personally don't think liquor stores are but many other people do. How often to you eat at restaurants on a weekly or monthly basis? Or do you practice what you preach and eat lunchables and pb&j.

The point is these restaurants stayed in business during this pandemic. Many saw a boost in sales and increased profits. When they reopened dine in many people were eager to go back out to eat. Therefore it is an essential business.

One ridiculous post after another.

 

[DonjoVol]

One ridiculous post after another.

How often do you eat at restaurants on a weekly or monthly basis?

 

[C-south]

It's not up to you to determine what's essential. I personally don't think liquor stores are but many other people do. How often to you eat at restaurants on a weekly or monthly basis? Or do you practice what you preach and eat lunchables and pb&j.

The point is these restaurants stayed in business during this pandemic. Many saw a boost in sales and increased profits. When they reopened dine in many people were eager to go back out to eat. Therefore it is an essential business.



Yes it's okay if people like eating out at restaurants. Nothing wrong with that. Just like there is nothing wrong with someone staying at a job they are comfortable with. Right?

Are you this dumb in real life? I have to believe you are. Something being “essential” means it’s necessary to survive. If restaurants are “essential” for someone to survive then I stand behind my Darwin comment.

 

[DonjoVol]

Are you this dumb in real life? I have to believe you are. Something being “essential” means it’s necessary to survive. If restaurants are “essential” for someone to survive then I stand behind my Darwin comment.

How many times a week or month do you eat food from a restaurant? Or can you start practicing what you preach?

 

[C-south]

How many times a week or month do you eat food from a restaurant? Or can you start practicing what you preach?

I could eat at one 3 times a day and it still not be essential. The moment they don’t exist life goes on and you make your own meals by other means. That seems to be a hard concept for you to grasp.

 

[DonjoVol]

I could eat at one 3 times a day and it still not be essential. The moment they don’t exist life goes on and you make your own meals by other means. That seems to be a hard concept for you to grasp.

They are essential to you and other people because you can't live without them. Apparently a hard concept for you to grasp.

You also seem to have very little respect for working class people. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I would suggest contacting your state reps during the next pandemic if you have a problem with certain businesses being considered essential at that time.

 

[DonjoVol]

Some of these people tonight are making me wish I had just voted for Don Blankenship or Kanye the last election.

 

[508mikey]

Some of these people tonight are making me wish I had just voted for Don Blankenship or Kanye the last election.

Wouldn't be more or less better than the clown that won

 

[DonjoVol]

Wouldn't be more or less better than the clown that won

I'm mainly saying that because I'm figuring out there are Trump supporters and conservatives out there that do not in any way shape or form support the working class.

Been seriously considering just voting 3rd party and independent from here on out.

 

[Vol8188]

Thank you again for your response. Again, you seem to be laboring under the assumption that hourly wage is the sole, driving factor in determining what people choose to do for a living. In a perfect, completely free market economy, that might be true. But we do not live in a free market economy.

As far as #3 goes, again, if you do not understand why this is a strawman, then it is beyond explanation in a forum like this. But suffice it to say, saying "if I think people are underpaid I should start a company and pay them more", is clearly a strawman. There is no logical response to an illogical suggestion.

As far as the Cansad study - give me a break. That paper was from 2009 and has been refuted in every way possible. It has literally been beaten to death but somehow people still refer to it even though by 2010 it was accepted as qualitative at best. If you want me to cite data from the same study that refutes your argument, I am happy to, but it is equally as meaningless.

From FOX news -



You seem like a reasonable person. I was hoping for more, but if you cannot see the fallacy in your argument, then we will just have to agree to disagree. Again, I think that is okay. I don't feel inclined to convince you either way. I come here to talk football. I just thought you had a new perspective on this topic that might be interesting.

I’ve never claimed wages are the only factor. Only that people do what’s in their best interest and seek their own best opportunity however they may define it. All of those different ways in which someone may value a job have economic trade offs.

Do we live in an entirely free market? No. But do we live in a country where people are free to make their economic decisions and pick higher paying jobs if they wish? Obviously yes. With that freedom also comes the freedom to hire and pay as high a wage as they wish.

A strawman would be misrepresenting your argument. Me pointing out that if you’re right and you’ve actually found a group of people who are drastically underpaid, that you can make a tremendous amount of money by helping those people, that’s not a strawman but a simple economic fact. If anyone believes women are making 75 cents to the dollar, they could hire only women at 80 cents to the dollar and have a 20% advantage on their competition. Why do you consider starting a business to be illogical?

You asked me for source codes and original studies and the evidence you provide is a Fox News article? That’s odd. But what about that article seems to invalidate my claim? I’m not seeing it.

the reason the wage gap is a myth is it’s a misunderstanding of statistics. The median wages for a woman and the median wages for a man does not count for a number of things that have obvious impact.

Hours worked, the field you’re working in, years of experience, all of those impact your salary and all of those are areas women lack in (the work less hours, less overtime, in lower paying fields, and they take years off from the work force). What of that argument do you believe is incorrect?

 

[Vol8188]

It's all about comfort. And perhaps they are in a situation where their spouse makes more money so they feel no reason to leave. Especially if the spouse is paying all or a majority of the bills. So why would they leave?

I didn't say it was not good enough for them. You made that assumption. I'm just telling you that I personally know people who have told me they can leave their jobs and make more money elsewhere but simply will not do it. That also doesn't mean other people are just going to be comfortable in the same position at an organization and might eventually move on to what they see as a better opportunity.

For some people a better opportunity also means more money. Plus, some people on this forum will tell you on here that the more money that person makes the more valuable they are to that organization and to society. Not my words. And I'm sure those people won't have a problem letting you know who they are.

I agree with all of that. People pick the opportunity they consider to be in their best interest.

Where do you think we disagree?

 

[hUTch2002]

Re: firefighters and truck drivers you know making 80k+ and 100k+, respectively. How wonderful for firefighters and truck drivers that you know personally! Anecdotal evidence does not disprove the fact that there are people in both professions who are underpaid.

If someone is underpaid as a truck driver, where there is an industry-wide driver shortage of about 80K drivers, then they aren’t very good at their job, have a bad driving record or safety record, or they’re limiting themselves in some way like refusing to move for work or refusing certain types of hauls. You could probably say the same for most people that feel underpaid. Like another poster said, these days it seems like most people expect promotions, big raises, and big bonuses but they aren’t willing to work more than 40 hours a week, if even that. People are more entitled than ever. A great example is moving. I did move once for work, from Knoxville out to Texas, early in my career. I moved back to Knoxville after a couple of years and since then I have decided I didn’t want to move again. By doing that I automatically knew that limited my options and thus my earning potential, at least for the job I was doing at the time, but that was a sacrifice I was willing to make. And that’s the rub. No one wants to sacrifice for anything these days. But you are sacrificing one way or the other. You either sacrifice earning potential by limiting yourself or you sacrifice what you want to go earn more. There are some rare cases where people earn a great living without sacrificing but usually that means that person doesn’t look at working long hours or whatever as a sacrifice or they made the sacrifice much earlier to get to where they are now.

 

[DonjoVol]

I agree with all of that. People pick the opportunity they consider to be in their best interest.

Where do you think we disagree?

Probably in our determination that they are unskilled jobs. You and others think they are. Me and many others think they are not. I have given my reasons as to why I feel the way I do. I also spent over a decade of my working career in the restaurant industry. Trust me I've seen some very good and hard working people. I've seen some lazy people as well. But I can also say that about the insurance broker I used to work for.

I mean if you and others want to go to the Waffle House at 2am and tell those waitresses, manager, and cook that their job is unskilled then be my guest. I'm sure they would appreciate it.

I honestly don't think any job is unskilled. And I see all people who are out there working as equals and they all play a key role in helping society function.

 

[utvolpj]

Probably in our determination that they are unskilled jobs. You and others think they are. Me and many others think they are not. I have given my reasons as to why I feel the way I do. I also spent over a decade of my working career in the restaurant industry. Trust me I've seen some very good and hard working people. I've seen some lazy people as well. But I can also say that about the insurance broker I used to work for.

I mean if you and others want to go to the Waffle House at 2am and tell those waitresses, manager, and cook that their job is unskilled then be my guest. I'm sure they would appreciate it.

I honestly don't think any job is unskilled. And I see all people who are out there working as equals and they all play a key role in helping society function.

Those jobs require training, not a skill. Warehouse workers are mostly unskilled except for a few pieces of equipment and they get extra pay if they can operate one. Maybe being able to count is a skill and even then 25% of them would still be unskilled

The guy flipping the big arrow on the street corner is absolutely unskilled. He can be replaced by a stick

 

[utvolpj]

Ftr I am underpaid and always will be

 

[DonjoVol]

Those jobs require training, not a skill. Warehouse workers are mostly unskilled except for a few pieces of equipment and they get extra pay if they can operate one. Maybe being able to count is a skill and even then 25% of them would still be unskilled

The guy flipping the big arrow on the street corner is absolutely unskilled. He can be replaced by a stick

I disagree that a warehouse worker is unskilled. If they are willing to do the job and do it successfully then yes they are skilled at what they do. It also takes a certain level of stamina to work those positions. There are many people who simply do not have the stamina for those jobs.

Lol. I don't see many people flipping that big arrow anymore. Actually one person I talked to who was doing it was actually the owner of the store. He just did it certain times of the day. Some would have their other employees take turns doing that. And they do it as part of their advertising and marketing. But like I said. I really don't see people doing that anymore.

 

[DonjoVol]

Ftr I am underpaid and always will be

At least you are willing to admit it.

 

[utvolpj]

I disagree that a warehouse worker is unskilled. If they are willing to do the job and do it successfully then yes they are skilled at what they do. It also takes a certain level of stamina to work those positions. There are many people who simply do not have the stamina for those jobs.

Lol. I don't see many people flipping that big arrow anymore. Actually one person I talked to who was doing it was actually the owner of the store. He just did it certain times of the day. Some would have their other employees take turns doing that. And they do it as part of their advertising and marketing. But like I said. I really don't see people doing that anymore.

Then you have no clue what goes on in a warehouse. You can walk into an Amazon dc with zero experience and be picking the same day. It's my job to make sure the system works for the lowest skill level. The job will still exist when I retire in a decade

 

[TheDeeble]

Probably in our determination that they are unskilled jobs. You and others think they are. Me and many others think they are not. I have given my reasons as to why I feel the way I do. I also spent over a decade of my working career in the restaurant industry. Trust me I've seen some very good and hard working people. I've seen some lazy people as well. But I can also say that about the insurance broker I used to work for.

I mean if you and others want to go to the Waffle House at 2am and tell those waitresses, manager, and cook that their job is unskilled then be my guest. I'm sure they would appreciate it.

I honestly don't think any job is unskilled. And I see all people who are out there working as equals and they all play a key role in helping society function.

I think you're mistaking the term unskilled or low skilled with one of disrespect. If a high school student or someone can be trained to do a job in a few hours, it's a low skilled job. It's not something they had to take courses on, have a degree in, or go to school for a professional license. You're not going to train someone to be a HVAC technician or a nurse in a few hours. That requires months of dedicated training in that specific field vs taking food orders, using a register, or pushing boxes in a warehouse environment.