Not espn's fault that manning lost the heisman?

#201
#201
successful-troll-is-successful.jpg
 
#205
#205
Dbake005 said:
Didn't David Boston just absolutely toast Woodson for a TD in that game? I might be remembering incorrectly, i was a young'n
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I was at the game and Woodson was Mr. Everything all game long. Only UM game I've ever been to btw.
 
#207
#207
Lawrence Wright said:
It changes from year to year.

Tebow won it because he had PlayStation stats, Gino Toretta won it because he was the starting QB on the #1 team.

Woodson won it because Manning lost to UF. Manning set the expectation of exorcising his UF demons the day he announced he was coming back for his senior year. That was supposed to be his "Heisman moment".

Fair or unfair I think that, coupled with Woodson playing both ways for a national title contender, doomed Manning.
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This is true. ESPN didn't help but this is true.

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#209
#209
droski said:
you have the winningest program in football history with one of the greatest players in football history beating another great program the last week of the season. any network would promote woodson.

check out the highlights: YouTube - ‪Heisman Highlights: Charles Woodson‬‏
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Hey Droski, or anyone else, could you compare Woodson's "wonderful" stats to Champ Bailey's or Carl Pickens' the year he played defense? If I remember correctly, those 2 guys outplayed Woodson in a better conference and they didn't sniff a heisman. If that is indeed true, there is no logical argument for Woodson even being considered, other than some guys on TV saying...."why not a defensive guy". To me...that's end of story.
 
#210
#210
99bubble said:
Hey Droski, or anyone else, could you compare Woodson's "wonderful" stats to Champ Bailey's or Carl Pickens' the year he played defense? If I remember correctly, those 2 guys outplayed Woodson in a better conference and they didn't sniff a heisman. If that is indeed true, there is no logical argument for Woodson even being considered, other than some guys on TV saying...."why not a defensive guy". To me...that's end of story.
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Let the big orange church say AMEN!!
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#211
#211
He won the Heisman against Ohio State. If I remember correctly, he returned a punt for a TD, had an interception or two and had a couple of long receptions on offense . . . all on national television.
 
#213
#213
GAVol said:
He won the Heisman against Ohio State. If I remember correctly, he returned a punt for a TD, had an interception or two and had a couple of long receptions on offense . . . all on national television.
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Yeah Peytons game was on Jefferson pilot against Kensucky. But he still got robbed
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#214
#214
99bubble said:
Hey Droski, or anyone else, could you compare Woodson's "wonderful" stats to Champ Bailey's or Carl Pickens' the year he played defense? If I remember correctly, those 2 guys outplayed Woodson in a better conference and they didn't sniff a heisman. If that is indeed true, there is no logical argument for Woodson even being considered, other than some guys on TV saying...."why not a defensive guy". To me...that's end of story.
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Guarantee both of those listed had QBs throwing to their side more frequently than Woodson. The best DBs accumulate the fewest stats because QBs won't throw the ball near them.

It's sorta like how the best long snappers are the ones you've never heard of.
 
#215
#215
justingroves said:
It always seemed like Tennessee would try and get in a shootout with UF and then grind everyone else on the schedule down with the running game.

I don't know if that's statistically true but it always felt that way to me.
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Quite true during Peyton's tenure, an era when Spurrier had, in Danny Wuerffel, the perfect quarterback for his system. 1998 seemed to signify a change in offensive strategy by Fulmer and Cutcliffe, one in which a run-first offense was used to shorten the game and limit the number of possessions by Florida. From 1998-2001, the series was highly competitive. We were 2-2 and none of those contests was won by more than 4 points.

1998 UT W 20-17
1999 UT L 23-21
2000 UT L 27-23
2001 UT W 34-32 (the game in which Travis Stephens ran wild for more than 200 yards)
 
#216
#216
droski said:
that's just garbage. if peyton beats florida he wins the heisman. did wooden get publicity? sure. but are you really arguing the heisman voters soley listen to espn? you guys just can't look at this rationally.
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Have you ever looked at who actually votes for the Heisman? There are more voters from the northeast (where college football is an after-thought and they are completely dependent upon the major TV coverage, especially ESPN in those days) than there are SEC-based voters.

Want to see how bad such voting can be? See the fact Chuck Long almost won over Bo Jackson.
 
#217
#217
droski said:
yes. is this really up for debate?
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Then please explain how non-national-title contender players like all of the following won the Heisman in the years around Manning...

Sanders - Oklahoma State
Detmer - BYU
Howard - Michigan
Salaam - Colorado
George - Ohio State
Williams - Texas
Dayne - Wisconsin
 
#218
#218
Lawrence Wright said:
Come on now....you can't compare Bailey's UGA teams with Woodson's Michigan squad in '97.

Champ Bailey's UGA teams were never in contention to win the SEC East, let alone the national championship.
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Over half of the Heismans have gone to players on teams not competing for a national title, so that excuse doesn't fly.
 
#219
#219
Volosaurus rex said:
It is most interesting that you have narrowly defined the criteria for winning the Heisman to suit your personal argument. To address your question, however, let us turn back the hands of time to an era when the quarterback was not necessarily the most instrumental position on the field. In 1956, Paul Hornung won the Heisman while playing for a 2-8 Notre Dame team. Runnerup Johnny Majors and third-place Tommy McDonald played, respectively, for Tennessee and Oklahoma teams that were 10-0 and 10-0.
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And that doesn't count the most egregious exclusion that year -- a certain senior running back named Jim Brown.
 
#220
#220
Lawrence Wright said:
Sure, let's disregard UF's Heisman QB and his two favorite WRs who UT didn't come close to covering in 3 years. Replacing Wuerffel, Ike and Reidel was really no big deal......whatever......

UF's o-line wasn't gelling at that point either, and outside of UF's linebackers our defense was good, but nowhere close to being great.

Worst case UT's talent was on par with UF back then. Our biggest advantage over UT in '97 was between the ears. We expected to win, UT hoped they would win.
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You're mistaken. Our defenses had evened up in talent, but your advantage at the skill positions offensively remained strong, especially with Freshman Lewis not playing much in such an early road game.

Multi-Year NFL Players
Florida-1997
T MO COLLINS
C JEFF MITCHELL
G ZACH PILLER
T COOPER CARLISLE
TE ERRON KINNEY
FB TERRY JACKSON
RB FRED TAYLOR
QB DOUG JOHNSON
WR JACQUEZ GREEN
WR TRAVIS MCGRIFF
DE ELIJAH WILLIAMS
DT REGGIE MCHREW
LB JEVON KEARSE
LB MIKE PETERSON
LB JOHNNY RUTLEDGE
DB FRED WEARY
DB TONY GEORGE

Tennessee-1997
T TEAGUE
G COLEMAN
T CLIFTON
FB BRYSON
RB LEWIS
QB MANNING
WR PRICE
DE BROWN
DE ELLIS
LB LITTLE
LB WILSON
LB THOMPSON
DB FAIR
DB GOODRICH
 
#221
#221
GAVol said:
He won the Heisman against Ohio State. If I remember correctly, he returned a punt for a TD, had an interception or two and had a couple of long receptions on offense . . . all on national television.
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He got torched for a big TD, had 1 INT (against the all-mighty Joe Germaine), had 1 reception, and 1 punt return against a team that didn't win a single game over anybody that finished the season in the top 20.
 
#222
#222
Lawrence Wright said:
During the Manning years, I completely agree.

It was as though Fulmer had to prove he could chuck it around like the ball coach.
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Wrong. Manning was our best talent on a team that didn't have great running backs; it would have been lunacy not to try to pass it a lot. Florida just had more in-state talent for Spurrier to hand-pick from, especially fertile when Miami went on probation in the early-mid 90's. That talent edge carried him, until our unusually good recruiting evened the playing field by 1998, where it was a fun battle for 4 straight years. Seeing Spurrier lose his last ever Florida game on Florida field with a Heisman candidate at QB, an SEC title bid on the line and a national title to boot, as 18-point favorites, was an all-time sweet moment.
 
#224
#224
VegasVol said:
Then please explain how non-national-title contender players like all of the following won the Heisman in the years around Manning...

Sanders - Oklahoma State
Detmer - BYU
Howard - Michigan
Salaam - Colorado
George - Ohio State
Williams - Texas
Dayne - Wisconsin
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Barry Sanders had the best season a RB has ever had.
 
#225
#225
VegasVol said:
You're mistaken. Our defenses had evened up in talent, but your advantage at the skill positions offensively remained strong, especially with Freshman Lewis not playing much in such an early road game.

Multi-Year NFL Players
Florida-1997
T MO COLLINS
C JEFF MITCHELL
G ZACH PILLER
T COOPER CARLISLE
TE ERRON KINNEY
FB TERRY JACKSON
RB FRED TAYLOR
QB DOUG JOHNSON
WR JACQUEZ GREEN
WR TRAVIS MCGRIFF
DE ELIJAH WILLIAMS
DT REGGIE MCHREW
LB JEVON KEARSE
LB MIKE PETERSON
LB JOHNNY RUTLEDGE
DB FRED WEARY
DB TONY GEORGE

Tennessee-1997
T TEAGUE
G COLEMAN
T CLIFTON
FB BRYSON
RB LEWIS
QB MANNING
WR PRICE
DE BROWN
DE ELLIS
LB LITTLE
LB WILSON
LB THOMPSON
DB FAIR
DB GOODRICH
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Pretty sure we had Deon Grant that year, too.
 
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