Now the woke left reaches a new milestone of arrogance

#151
#151
SpaceCoastVol said:
Same thing with a lot of music from the 70s. I heard a song yesterday at the gym and I thought it was Fleetwood Mac.... nope. Somebody with a digital recorder and that had copied part of the Stevie Nicks vocals and added some autotune crap and a drum machine. There is so little real talent these days
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it is awful. Saw Joe Walsh talk about it many years ago when he was on Halls show
 
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#152
#152
SpaceCoastVol said:
Same thing with a lot of music from the 70s. I heard a song yesterday at the gym and I thought it was Fleetwood Mac.... nope. Somebody with a digital recorder and that had copied part of the Stevie Nicks vocals and added some autotune crap and a drum machine. There is so little real talent these days
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There are some supremely talented artists out there. You have gotten too old to appreciate it. Remember when that happened to your parents?
 
#153
#153
ClearwaterVol said:
There are some supremely talented artists out there. You have gotten too old to appreciate it. Remember when that happened to your parents?
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Notice I said "little real talent". I didn't say that there was none. But anything that involves what used to be called 'sampling' and autotune hardly qualifies as talent.
 
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#155
#155
VolStrom said:
Please give some examples, I'd like to hear some really good music from a young artist.
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My musical tastes are bit eclectic it runs from country to rap to punky stuff.

Randells and False Heads for punky
My rap tastes tend to run towards the Snoop, Kanye, Tupac, Biggie - I do like Mood by 24kGoldn though
Country - Ashley Cooke, Boy Named Banjo, Breland and Connor Smith.

My daughter plays Shawn Mendez and Taylor Swift a whole bunch so they each have some tunes that get stuck in my head.

These are just the newer acts that I like. I also love the classics and the 90s are now in that territory. ugh
 
#160
#160
#165
#165
AshG said:
Last summer. Stepped up my committee involvement and community service to try and earn having my position converted to tenure track. Basically, living at school.
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Good deal. Keep up the good work.
 
#168
#168
Shame I missed this thread when it was created. I find it highly suspect that an alleged lifelong classical music fan is seemingly not aware of musical arrangements in general.
 
#169
#169
Chris4Vols22 said:
Shame I missed this thread when it was created. I find it highly suspect that an alleged lifelong classical music fan is seemingly not aware of musical arrangements in general.
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Some composers have published multiple edits or versions of a work. But as far as I know, Beethoven only ever published one version of his great D Minor Symphony which is the Opus 125. I have read the score, there are no African Drums or rap lyrics anywhere therein. 😉
Now true, another composer can publish an arrangement of the work (as Liszt famously did with his excellent piano transcriptions of the Beethoven symphonies or the same composer can publish his own work for different instruments as Bach did with many of his keyboard concerti. But in each case, a composer‘s published work for a particular instrument or group of instruments is considered a unique work and is assigned its own opus number (or whatever catalog is compiled for that composer).
If some modern wokester wants to revise Beethoven‘s ninth, fine, as long s they don’t advertise it as Beethoven‘s ninth. Call it xxxxxxxx inspired by Beethoven’s Ninth. Anything less is discourteous to the composer and false advertising to the fan.
 
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#170
#170
The only real example of a legitimate scenario in which a work of classical music is altered by a later composer and is still referred to its original name is that of orchestration. The two I am most familiar with are Muskgorski‘s Pictures at an Exhibition and Bach’s Tocatta and Fugue in D. In the case of Pictures, Muskgorski (I am sure i am butchering the spelling) wrote it as a work for solo piano. Later, Ravel cam along and wrote a glorious orchestration which will be the version you hear at a concert. Although your program will call it Pictures at an Exhibition it will also include the parenthetical (orch. Ravel). With the Bach of course, the Original work for solo organ was transcribed for full orchestra by Stakowski and is the version you will hear in the movie Fantasia
The key to remember in both of these cases is that they are true transcriptions in which the musical matter is neither added to or reduced, only transfered to different instrumentation. The work contains the exact same number of measures. This cannot be said of the purported Baltimore Beethoven’s ninth. It clearly ends the scope of the composers intent by introducing new musical ideas not written by Herr Beethoven
 
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#171
#171
The debate of music over 12 notes in some random but random compilation.
 
#173
#173
OrangeTsar said:
The only real example of a legitimate scenario in which a work of classical music is altered by a later composer and is still referred to its original name is that of orchestration. The two I am most familiar with are Muskgorski‘s Pictures at an Exhibition and Bach’s Tocatta and Fugue in D. In the case of Pictures, Muskgorski (I am sure i am butchering the spelling) wrote it as a work for solo piano. Later, Ravel cam along and wrote a glorious orchestration which will be the version you hear at a concert. Although your program will call it Pictures at an Exhibition it will also include the parenthetical (orch. Ravel). With the Bach of course, the Original work for solo organ was transcribed for full orchestra by Stakowski and is the version you will hear in the movie Fantasia
The key to remember in both of these cases is that they are true transcriptions in which the musical matter is neither added to or reduced, only transfered to different instrumentation. The work contains the exact same number of measures. This cannot be said of the purported Baltimore Beethoven’s ninth. It clearly ends the scope of the composers intent by introducing new musical ideas not written by Herr Beethoven
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Really astute analysis. I get where you're coming from.

Based on what I've read of the subject, she's not changing the music so much as adding interludes in between. Much in the way that opera buffa originated as short performances between the acts in opera seria, and the opera buffa changed based on location and patronage.

Also, no one alive outside of some very niche academies has ever heard Beethoven's Ninth as intended. Modern orchestras are playing music written for very different sounding instruments. Timbre, tuning and intonation, and orchestra size have all changed dramatically since Beethoven was alive. Modern orchestras are changing the performance just through the evolution of their equipment and technique.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this as a conductor. My job, as I've understood it, is to faithfully translate the composer's intent for the audience through the medium of the ensemble I'm directing. I'd never have the ego or self-assurance to try something this original with a golden calf of the repertoire.
 
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#174
#174
AshG said:
Really astute analysis. I get where you're coming from.

Based on what I've read of the subject, she's not changing the music so much as adding interludes in between. Much in the way that opera buffa originated as short performances between the acts in opera seria, and the opera buffa changed based on location and patronage.

Also, no one alive outside of some very niche academies has ever heard Beethoven's Ninth as intended. Modern orchestras are playing music written for very different sounding instruments. Timbre, tuning and intonation, and orchestra size have all changed dramatically since Beethoven was alive. Modern orchestras are changing the performance just through the evolution of their equipment and technique.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this as a conductor. My job, as I've understood it, is to faithfully translate the composer's intent for the audience through the medium of the ensemble I'm directing. I'd never have the ego or self-assurance to try something this original with a golden calf of the repertoire.
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Ah, did not know you were a conductor. Wow. You are living the dream 😉
So I guess I can ask you about my favorite question/pet peeve regarding composer intent….
Repeats of the exposition when explicitly called for in the score? Dispensable options or sacred canon? 😂😂😂
And regarding period instruments Yes, I know exactly of what you speak. My favorite recordings of the nine are the Karjan 63 set which is of course with modern instruments but I do enjoy the recent Roger Norrington ones with period instruments and a classically sized orchestra
But I think you hit the nail on the head with your choice of the word „ego“ for this conductor. I view it as arrogance to think there is something more that needed to be said in the ninth. Who really has the right to say that? Only Beethoven himself
 
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#175
#175
OrangeTsar said:
Ah, did not know you were a conductor. Wow. You are living the dream 😉
So I guess I can ask you about my favorite question/pet peeve regarding composer intent….
Repeats of the exposition when explicitly called for in the score? Dispensable options or sacred canon? 😂😂😂
And regarding period instruments Yes, I know exactly of what you speak. My favorite recordings of the nine are the Karjan 63 set which is of course with modern instruments but I do enjoy the recent Roger Norrington ones with period instruments and a classically sized orchestra
But I think you hit the nail on the head with your choice of the word „ego“ for this conductor. I view it as arrogance to think there is something more that needed to be said in the ninth. Who really has the right to say that? Only Beethoven himself
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Working backwards:

There's one change to the 9th that I'm comfortable with, and that's performing the fifth movement replacing Freude with Freihite. Beethoven originally wrote the final movement as "Ode to Freedom" (Freihite) but was forced to change it to Joy (Freude) by the king lest it cause anti-monarch sentiments. When the Berlin Wall fell, Bernstein conducted the 9th with the Berlin Phil and the choir changing the word back to Beethoven's original intent.

You have excellent taste in recordings. Karajan was a master conductor with an incredible ear.

My ADHD makes me wish repeated expositions weren't a thing, but you've got to give the composer their due. Even when they start to get really long winded like Brahms and Mahler.

Yes, I'm living the dream. I don't deserve it, but I'll take it while I can.

We must talk music more often!
 
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