NSA spying on millions in the USA

#102
#102
Why are people attempting to make this a republican political issue?

Smokedog you know full well the only reason you care about this topic is because you cannot stand Bush.

Bush is your focus and you want any thing and every thing to be negative that relates to him.

The government of the United States has not changed drastically under Bush. You quarrel is with Bush alone and you know it. I am going to have to start calling you Dan Rather. :air_kiss:

Again I will make the comparison of Bush to FDR and LBJ.......

Democrats should love him; he uses some of their own political playbook, or is that why you do not like him.......
 
#103
#103
(OrangeEmpire @ May 12 said:
What about every time you use your credit and or debit card?
Click to expand...

Just an addition to OE's line...

It bugs me no end that in order to get the discount at the grocery, I have to get one of their little "cards" that lets them track every purchase I make.

A minor thing and off topic, but I wanted to vent a little...
 
#104
#104
(orange+white=heaven @ May 12 said:
Or you could flip the table on the direction you are going...

A new CIA director is about to be appointed, so folks start looking into it all.
Is it magic that they found something, albeit minor, and printed it?
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree. This is a very legitimate story to come up due to who is being appointed . . . but it didn't just get printed. It got turned into the lead story.
 
#105
#105
I don't see the civil liberties connection here.

It is more related to 4th amendment issues of illegal search and seizure. The plan as described simply takes the records that are already kept by the phone companies. In fact, they have less info than the phone companies do since they would need to look up name and address info that the phone companies already have.

 
#106
#106
'Anybody who doesn't read a newspaper and the only TV they watch is the MTV, shouldn't be allowed to vote'........ Hank Hill
 
#107
#107
On civil liberties:

Governments at all levels restrict civil liberties constantly. There are all kinds of municipal ordinances about noise, trash, etc.

The govt mandates that you wear a seat belt.

The list is extensive.
 
#109
#109
(orange+white=heaven @ May 12 said:
Or you could flip the table on the direction you are going...

A new CIA director is about to be appointed, so folks start looking into it all.
Is it magic that they found something, albeit minor, and printed it?
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that it wasn't just found - it was found 4 months ago. It is being re-aired so to speak just before the head of the NSA is about to go through confirmation hearings.
 
#110
#110
My neighbors can complain at 4 in the afternoon about my coonhounds barking while playing with each other.

I can get a $250 fine........

God Bless America.......
 
#111
#111
(GAVol @ May 12 said:
. . . but it didn't just get printed. It got turned into the lead story.
Click to expand...

It got the lead when the President of the United States took the podium to defend the action.
It was a catch22 for Bush, say nothing and it may snowball against you...
or open your mouth and take the heat for a while until the news cycle turns.

All in all I think W. reacted in the only way he could, but the price was a hot topic for the 24hour news voices for a little while.




 
#113
#113
(volinbham @ May 12 said:
The problem with this is that it wasn't just found - it was found 4 months ago. It is being re-aired so to speak just before the head of the NSA is about to go through confirmation hearings.
Click to expand...

One of the main duties of a news director is to apply relevancy to the stories that he might potentially go with on a given day.
That this information existed four months ago, but did not rise to the top of the heap until now neither surprises me nor indicates bias.
 
#116
#116
(orange+white=heaven @ May 12 said:
One of the main duties of a news director is to apply relevancy to the stories that he might potentially go with on a given day.
That this information existed four months ago, but did not rise to the top of the heap until now neither surprises me nor indicates bias.
Click to expand...

If it's simply a relevance issue, why not dig up some stories about how NSA activies under Hayden have protected this country? :question:

One of the issues with media bias is the perceived role of the press/media. I think the "liberal" bias issue gets confused with "democrat" bias. I believe the press often sees itself as "defender of the voiceless or weak" rather than "reporter of news".

Notice that the story was presented in a way to suggest that the government is "up to" something. It appeared on the front page but the information stating that no names or addresses were collected was nowhere to be found on the front page (it was in a sidebar on page 5). Even the headline suggested that the NSA was delving into individuals.

IMHO, the idea of a liberal bias is a media that consistently sides (even if subtly) the "little guy". Negatives against companies are highlighted. Employees are inherently more sympathetic than companies. Industrialized nations more at fault than 3rd world countries.

 
#117
#117
i agree with you empire, but i would be making a big deal out of this even if it was a democrat or anybody in office. i 'm a extremely private person and this just makes me sick. bush being the head of it goes under the category of " life has its little bonuses ". i hate the man and i still think he has his own interests in mind not that of the american citizens. as far as i'm concerned when he comes on tv i shut it off, i don't need to hear anymore of his lies. that is how i feel, he has more excuses than anybody in the world. the sad thing is he represents the people and that is terrible. :bad:
 
#118
#118
I think we both agree that Republican and Democratic politicians are eseantially weasels.

What do you do about a third party?

Volinbham I like your take on liberals and segments of media being the champion of the little guy.

People wonder why Democrats do not relate to the middle class.

Speaking of which, when the Democrats take over government they will institute a national secret police force.

Democrats Secret Police or DSP

Another privacy link......or lack....

Links
 
#119
#119
A few further thoughts on "liberal bias" in the media.

The Woodward/Bernstein fame seems to have convinced a generation of the press that their job is to expose corruption. As a result, we are flooded with stories where the reporters went in "looking for something". Thus the news media presents an image that more corruption is occurring than may be - in other words, the preponderance of stories we see are negative against those who are more powerful. As a result, the distrust of power grows.

I think the Enron/WorldCom era is a perfect example. We are left with the impression that CEO's are bad, ruthless, cheats, etc. However, what we are being exposed to are the exceptions. Since we rarely hear about the majority that don't fit these modes, the perception is reinforced.
 
#122
#122
(smokedog#3 @ May 12 said:
the president that brings that BS empire should be taken out and shot for treason. :bad:
Click to expand...

Wouldn't this be a violation of his rights and civil liberties? :p
 
#123
#123
now when i read something like this it sort of sounds like fiction, or something that will never happen. it's hard for me to believe anybody on either side of the ball is that stupid. just my opinion.
 
#124
#124
(smokedog#3 @ May 12 said:
now when i read something like this it sort of sounds like fiction, or something that will never happen. it's hard for me to believe anybody on either side of the ball is that stupid. just my opinion.
Click to expand...

What are you referring to?
 
#125
#125
(volinbham @ May 12 said:
If it's simply a relevance issue, why not dig up some stories about how NSA activies under Hayden have protected this country? :question:
Click to expand...

This line reminds me of an old question from J101. Is good news news?
As relates to Hayden, when his name first surfaced as nominee, there was a good deal of reporting on his resume. I thought that what I saw was balanced. Further I was left with the impression that he was a highly qualified man. In as much as there was balance to the reporting and yet I was still left with a positive impression, I would have to say that there was coverage of how Hayden "protected this country".


(volinbham @ May 12 said:
One of the issues with media bias is the perceived role of the press/media. I think the "liberal" bias issue gets confused with "democrat" bias. I believe the press often sees itself as "defender of the voiceless or weak" rather than "reporter of news".

Notice that the story was presented in a way to suggest that the government is "up to" something. It appeared on the front page but the information stating that no names or addresses were collected was nowhere to be found on the front page (it was in a sidebar on page 5). Even the headline suggested that the NSA was delving into individuals.

IMHO, the idea of a liberal bias is a media that consistently sides (even if subtly) the "little guy". Negatives against companies are highlighted. Employees are inherently more sympathetic than companies. Industrialized nations more at fault than 3rd world countries.
Click to expand...

This is such a well presented opinion that I don't really care to come after it.
Except to point out that there is, of necessity, a tendency to write to "draw people in" across the board in the media in general. From a strictly journalistic standpoint, I don't believe anyone in the business really wants to stand up and defend that fact. But it is a fact. And it occurs in every outlet, no matter how upstanding their reputation.

I say this in order to point out that the "up to something" lean has become the nature of the beast.
I think it is now, regrettably, up to you as the reader/viewer to see beyond the "flourishes" of the reporting and filter in the substance of it.

Not sure if I offered much clarity to my thinking, but there you go.
 
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