Obama promising 600,000 goverment jobs by summer.

#101
#101
utvolpj said:
who cares? Everyone whose money is taken to fund your utopian dream
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Yes, my utopian dream. Canada's system isnt perfect - yes it is expensive, but so is ours. Difference is, they spent millions on departments whose solo purpose is to deny people coverage.
 
#102
#102
KiffinKiller said:
Yes, my utopian dream. Canada's system isnt perfect - yes it is expensive, but so is ours. Difference is, they spent millions on departments whose solo purpose is to deny people coverage.
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so you fix that with a gov't entity who will do the same?
 
#104
#104
BigPapaVol said:
really? Your opening salvo in this thread suggests otherwise.

But heck, maybe you are one of those liberals that LG1 describes here: more nuanced and capable of understanding all of the in depth thought that must go into a decision. We boneheads just aren't on the same plane.
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That was meant for weird Al. I respect your opinions though - don't think you are boneheads.
 
#106
#106
KiffinKiller said:
The gov't will spend millions to deny people coverage? Thats a bit pessimistic.
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then please let me know about these phenomenal cost savings the government is going to realize. Please don't bother with the information technology angle, which is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
 
#108
#108
BigPapaVol said:
then please let me know about these phenomenal cost savings the government is going to realize. Please don't bother with the information technology angle, which is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
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Like I said, the real issue with health care is simple supply and demand. There is more demand than supply, because demand is practically limitless in our current age. I don't understand why many don't see that.
 
#110
#110
KiffinKiller said:
The gov't will spend millions to deny people coverage? Thats a bit pessimistic.
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Pessimism is just about the only thing our elected officials have inspired recently. They have a horrible track record, why should we be anything but pessimistic?
 
#111
#111
KB5252 said:
Pessimism is just about the only thing our elected officials have inspired recently. They have a horrible track record, why should we be anything but pessimistic?
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it isn't a recent phenomenon. The government has been inept and obscenely wasteful forever.
 
#112
#112
IPorange said:
Like I said, the real issue with health care is simple supply and demand. There is more demand than supply, because demand is practically limitless in our current age. I don't understand why many don't see that.
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And demand will only be higher when you remove what little out of pocket expense to the individual there was to begin with.
 
#113
#113
BigPapaVol said:
it isn't a recent phenomenon. The government has been inept and obscenely wasteful forever.
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I don't disagree but would point out that waste has ballooned and become a much bigger problem recently than it has in the past. At least it seems this way to me.
 
#114
#114
KB5252 said:
And demand will only be higher when you remove what little out of pocket expense to the individual there was to begin with.
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I wouldn't say little. If I'm not mistaken, close to the majority of bankruptcy is attributable to health care.
 
#115
#115
IPorange said:
Like I said, the real issue with health care is simple supply and demand. There is more demand than supply, because demand is practically limitless in our current age. I don't understand why many don't see that.
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and the minimal cost of high quality care over time has conditioned us to simply default to the most expensive caregiver available, which is always the doc's office.

It's like grocery shopping at Morton's.
 
#117
#117
KB5252 said:
I don't disagree but would point out that waste has ballooned and become a much bigger problem recently than it has in the past. At least it seems this way to me.
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I agree. We were close to black when Clinton was around, but that was a whiiiile ago.
 
#118
#118
KiffinKiller said:
I agree. We were close to black when Clinton was around, but that was a whiiiile ago.
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Clinton's operation in the black was about Gingrich's contract with America shutting down much of Clinton's initial agenda and a capital gains boom absolutely overwhelming gov't coffers. It wasn't anything to do with Clintonian philosophy.
 
#120
#120
KiffinKiller said:
I agree. We were close to black when Clinton was around, but that was a whiiiile ago.
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My response to those who throw this line out there is always the same. What exactly did Clinton have to do with this?

As a rule good presidents are made when the opposing party controls the house and balances power. This was not true in the later part of Bush's presidency, partially because of the people in control of the opposition and partially because Bush was already a horrible spender.

Obama and the country would benefit greatly if the current house democrats were shaken up and many of those seats had republicans in them. It is the only thing at this point that would prevent Obama from being worse than Bush or Carter.
 
#121
#121
KiffinKiller said:
Am I wrong? The thought of 50% of bankruptcies caused by health care is saddening.
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why? The fact that the bankruptcy process lets people expunge a debt is a problem? The fact that they get a service that they clearly can't pay for and can wipe it clean. Are you arguing that forcing everyone to pay for high dollar care for those who can't afford it is a better alternative than having them make a choice between their credit and good health is a bad thing?
 
#122
#122
KB5252 said:
My response to those who throw this line out there is always the same. What exactly did Clinton have to do with this?

As a rule good presidents are made when the opposing party controls the house and balances power. This was not true in the later part of Bush's presidency, partially because of the people in control of the opposition and partially because Bush was already a horrible spender.

Obama and the country would benefit greatly if the current house democrats were shaken up and many of those seats had republicans in them. It is the only thing at this point that would prevent Obama from being worse than Bush or Carter at this point.
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:hi: Threw the clinton thing out there. Wasn't sure what else to say. We were in the black - he was president.
 
#124
#124
BigPapaVol said:
why? The fact that the bankruptcy process lets people expunge a debt is a problem? The fact that they get a service that they clearly can't pay for and can wipe it clean. Are you arguing that forcing everyone to pay for high dollar care for those who can't afford it is a better alternative than having them make a choice between their credit and good health is a bad thing?
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I will gladly pay my taxes to allow somebody to get the care they need. I would just expect the same from my neighbor.
 
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