Obama promising 600,000 goverment jobs by summer.

#151
#151
KiffinKiller said:
I'm certainly learning quite a bit talking with you guys. The problems in health care have hit home recently - so I apologize if I was ranting. I appreciate your patience. I am still a young man with a lot to learn - but I am glad to do so and hope to make good decisions with my votes in the future.
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If you believe any thing you have typed, you will never vote for a democrat or republican as long as you live.
 
#153
#153
KB5252 said:
As anyone in the medical profession will tell you early detection and swift, vigorous treatment for cancers saves lives. While our system is imperfect it does allow for swift treatment whereas Canada's system is plagued with delays both in access to doctors as well as in the treatment. In my view you are simply trading one flawed system for another and taking away personal choices and freedoms for the patient.

How is Canada's system any better, especially considering the most affluent from all over the world make the choice to come to America for treatment? It is because we have the best care available. Implement something similar to Canada and this will no longer be true.
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After living overseas for so long, and being back just over a year....not so sure about this...definitely not the swiftest treatment.
 
#155
#155
KiffinKiller said:
I think it's more or less the idea that we have the best of everything. Which is obviously not the case in this instance.
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Why would so many world leaders and affluent individuals choose to come to America for treatment and diagnosis by our specialists if they weren't considered among the very best if not the best?

There is a reason, we have facilities, specialists and technology and you simply don't find the quality that you find here in almost all other countries.
 
#159
#159
KiffinKiller said:
So you're saying we have the best health care system in the world? I think we are lacking precisely that.
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I doubt anyone is saying our system is 100% perfect but you would be hard pressed to find better care once you're there
 
#160
#160
utvolpj said:
I doubt anyone is saying our system is 100% perfect but you would be hard pressed to find better care once you're there
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I'm hard pressed to find a reason why we have HMOs run by health service employees who must maintain above 25% denial rates. WTF is this.
 
#161
#161
KiffinKiller said:
I'm hard pressed to find a reason why we have HMOs run by health service employees who must maintain above 25% denial rates. WTF is this.
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and that will change when the gov't decides what's best for you? Sure it sucks but I've yet to find something get turned down completely that was included in my policy

and that still has nothing to do with the actual care you receive from medical professionals
 
#162
#162
utvolpj said:
and that will change when the gov't decides what's best for you? Sure it sucks but I've yet to find something get turned down completely that was included in my policy

and that still has nothing to do with the actual care you receive from medical professionals
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Yes facilities, doctors, etc are great. I'm saying the system we have in place to actually 'receive' this care is and will be flawed until HMOs become nfp or are eliminated entirely.
 
#163
#163
KiffinKiller said:
Yes facilities, doctors, etc are great. I'm saying the system we have in place to actually 'receive' this care is and will be flawed until HMOs become nfp or are eliminated entirely.
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so you're willing to decrease care in order to eliminate for-profit companies and replace them with gov't agencies? Not a trade I'm willing to make when my life's on the line
 
#164
#164
utvolpj said:
so you're willing to decrease care in order to eliminate for-profit companies and replace them with gov't agencies? Not a trade I'm willing to make when my life's on the line
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This automatically decreases care? When my life is on the line, I don't want to have to jump through hoops - just to get my damn HMOs, whom I have been paying handsomely to pay for something that will save me.

Lets say I have cancer and a new treatment I am eligible for has been having positive results across the board - however, I am denied because my HMO deems this as experimental - its written in your contract. This is damn ridiculous - I'm surprised more ruined families aren't committing Columbine-like atrocities at HMO sites across America.
 
#165
#165
utvolpj said:
so you're willing to decrease care in order to eliminate for-profit companies and replace them with gov't agencies? Not a trade I'm willing to make when my life's on the line
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Profit is a 2 edged sword in HC. Those that believe "for profit" is the enemy fail to understand the efficiency effect of the profit motive. Given we have demand exceeding supply, this efficiency motive is crucial for cost containment.

On the flip side, the profit motive does encourage the search for profitable demand and we likely get oversupply of products/services that will generate nice margins and cover shortfalls from negative or zero margin products and services.

Overall though, profit is not the problem with our HC system.
 
#166
#166
KiffinKiller said:
This automatically decreases care? When my life is on the line, I don't want to have to jump through hoops - just to get my damn HMOs, whom I have been paying handsomely to pay for something that will save me.

Lets say I have cancer and a new treatment I am eligible for has been having positive results across the board - however, I am denied because my HMO deems this as experimental - its written in your contract. This is damn ridiculous - I'm surprised more ruined families aren't committing Columbine-like atrocities at HMO sites across America.
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all of the movie anecdotal histrionics aside, do you really expect this to get better in a government situation?

Maybe you should ask some folks who have been living under gov't run care for a while. Any current or former military folks can help you out there.
 
#167
#167
Just to have it out there I think no HC conversation is complete without bringing up the need for tort reform.
 
#168
#168
KiffinKiller said:
This automatically decreases care? When my life is on the line, I don't want to have to jump through hoops - just to get my damn HMOs, whom I have been paying handsomely to pay for something that will save me.

Lets say I have cancer and a new treatment I am eligible for has been having positive results across the board - however, I am denied because my HMO deems this as experimental - its written in your contract. This is damn ridiculous - I'm surprised more ruined families aren't committing Columbine-like atrocities at HMO sites across America.
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yes it will decrease care. I have yet to see a report saying more treatment options will become available with a gov't run system. If there is one I would love to read it.

And assuming you know why a drug would be labeled experimental is a little crazy. You always have the freedom to have not signed up with that provider or pay for it yourself. There are things about that we should change though

volinbham said:
Profit is a 2 edged sword in HC. Those that believe "for profit" is the enemy fail to understand the efficiency effect of the profit motive. Given we have demand exceeding supply, this efficiency motive is crucial for cost containment.

On the flip side, the profit motive does encourage the search for profitable demand and we likely get oversupply of products/services that will generate nice margins and cover shortfalls from negative or zero margin products and services.

Overall though, profit is not the problem with our HC system.
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for those who harp on profit there are ways to make it more efficient without spending billions of dollars. IMO a free market (with some regs) would get us to a better point quicker and cheaper
 
#170
#170
hndog609 said:
Just to have it out there I think no HC conversation is complete without bringing up the need for tort reform.
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gov't heavy handed involvement will limit the reform some. I think this is a part of the overall issue, but given the makeup of the congress, it's absurd to believe that anything will happen wrt tort reform unless it's driven from within the administration.
 
#171
#171
BigPapaVol said:
gov't heavy handed involvement will limit the reform some. I think this is a part of the overall issue, but given the makeup of the congress, it's absurd to believe that anything will happen wrt tort reform unless it's driven from within the administration.
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Sadly, I think that's a pretty fair assessment.
 
#172
#172
KiffinKiller said:
Yes facilities, doctors, etc are great. I'm saying the system we have in place to actually 'receive' this care is and will be flawed until HMOs become nfp or are eliminated entirely.
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You are operating under a faulty belief that if HMO's are eliminated no other group or agency will make similar decisions in denying care for certain individuals under certain circumstances. Those decisions will still be made by someone and the frequency with which those decisions are made to deny care will not go down because the government is involved.

Let's look at the VA hospitals and all the bad publicity they have had recently for using substandard equipment and in many cases equipment being used improperly by people who were either too lazy to sterilize or weren't properly trained to do so. The care may not cost you out of pocket but the risks and the quality of care in most cases simply isn't up to par with the care you would receive elsewhere.

This is an example of our government at work. This is what we can expect from them, you may call it pessimistic, people grounded in reality call it realistic and until government actually changes and does something to dispel their well deserved failure waiting to happen moniker we can only expect more of it.
 
#173
#173
Many people often have to resort to paying for the drugs/treatments themselves - though most Americans can't afford said treatments - especially the elderly (who are more likely to be ill to begin with).
 
#174
#174
KiffinKiller said:
Many people often have to resort to paying for the drugs/treatments themselves - though most Americans can't afford said treatments - especially the elderly (who are more likely to be ill to begin with).
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again, why should that be my problem? I understand wanting to help, but mandating that everyone do so is simply not the American way. We've bastardized our rules to make it appear that we're moving toward it becoming Americana, but it's not in the least.
 
#175
#175
KB5252 said:
You are operating under a faulty belief that if HMO's are eliminated no other group or agency will make similar decisions in denying care for certain individuals under certain circumstances. Those decisions will still be made by someone and the frequency with which those decisions are made to deny care will not go down because the government is involved.

Let's look at the VA hospitals and all the bad publicity they have had recently for using substandard equipment and in many cases equipment being used improperly by people who were either too lazy to sterilize or weren't properly trained to do so. The care may not cost you out of pocket but the risks and the quality of care in most cases simply isn't up to par with the care you would receive elsewhere.

This is an example of our government at work. This is what we can expect from them, you may call it pessimistic, people grounded in reality call it realistic and until government actually changes and does something to dispel their well deserved failure waiting to happen moniker we can only expect more of it.
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So we must accept a ridiculous flawed system because our government is worse? I'm beginning to believe I don't live in the greatest country on earth. Oh wait, i take that back, that would be unpatriotic.
 
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