Obama signs kids' health insurance bill ($32.8 billion)

#51
#51
Yes, let's blame it all on myself for not giving everything extra I have. Sure it would be easier if all gave a couple dollars every week from their check, but I'm sorry you can't be bothered.
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A person has the right to do whatever they like with their money. It is no one's responsibility to pay for the healthcare of someone else's child.
 
#52
#52
MG1968 said:
if you can't afford children, don't have them. If you do have kids before you're financially able to, get a second job, stop smoking, give up cable and your cell phone.

wants have become confused with needs.
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we have a winner, to bad some those ppl rather have their phones and cigs more than their kids
 
#53
#53
the only form of universal health care program that i will ever support is that for kids. stuff happens, i mean we had a student diagnosed with leukemia this week, a 13 year old, parents are workin and can barely make ends meet, without assistance that kid will die slow, painful death,,,

and i also see the flip side where the kids arent supported because the parent would rather be drunk or whatever then take care of their child, im goin to court in a few weeks on an abuse case for that same instance, because the parent is a doushebag doesnt mean the kid needs to suffer
 
#54
#54
nickknx865 said:
Look, I just don't think that those who have less money, than even my family, should be going bankrupt over surgery that is needed to save their life. To me, the right to heathcare without going broke, is a human right, not a privilege. Why? It's wrong to leave people, scared to go to the doctor, because it'll cost a fortune.
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let me guess u got that idea from obama? this shows your youth. i don't believe healthcare is in the bill of rights. healthcare is NOT a right
 
#55
#55
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
the only form of universal health care program that i will ever support is that for kids. stuff happens, i mean we had a student diagnosed with leukemia this week, a 13 year old, parents are workin and can barely make ends meet, without assistance that kid will die slow, painful death,,,
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any parent too stupid to not get emergency style health insurance for his kid should not be bailed out by the gov't. and this kid will get treatment btw. medicaid will pay for that. but his parents should be paying for it for the rest of their lives rather than the american taxpayers.
 
#56
#56
When you take your car to the mechanic to be repaired, you pay him. The plumber fixes a leak, you pay him. You pay a roofer to fix a leaky roof. Why should you not pay for the services a medical professional gives you?
 
#59
#59
This whole argument is trivial!

Who in the world does not want to provide healthcare for someone. We disagree on the vehicle.

The government has no business devling out money for this!
 
#60
#60
So I'm hesitant to do this just because in the end nothing is going to get resolved on here and as the poster above said, it is pretty trivial... but anyway, here are my two cents (and I being with the caveat that I worked on the Obama campaign for the past half year in VA).

For one, yes Emergency Rooms (I'm pretty sure) are not allowed to turn anybody away (thats why if you have ever had to go to the ER for something serious you usually see your city's finest there because they have a toothache).... what is often overlooked, however, is that the taxpayers pay for their trips to the ER as well....

Both political parties make a living out of providing fear to the public (see the Cold War, Nuclear Arms race, and most recently Terrorism). The assumption that the Democratic Party gets giddy about taking money from the working classes' pockets and puts it in the hands of those that do nothing is pretty absurd... 2 reasons. 1) You make it seem that people that were rich under Reagan and the first Bush were on dang food stamps under Clinton.... and 2) Those that are born into poverty are over 85% likely to die in poverty... You offer this perception that these social services are single handedly making the poor class rise above the middle class..Sure, it is discouraging when you look at a Housing Project and see a new Cadillac Escalade, but is it not equally upsetting to see a newly married couple buying a house/car/flat screen TV, etc that they cannot afford either? As we all know, there is a difference between owning something and borrowing/leasing it...Greed is not constrained by race or even wealth....

The most difficult part about social service programs is that pretty much everyone wants to make sure the children are taken care of (the reason why politicians always make it be about the children) mostly because the children can't really be blamed for their parent's failures - whether they were self inflicted or not... Yet how do you propose this be done? As a whole this country has agreed that certain ideals and principles should be used as a guidepost to public policy - to ensure that everyone is given a fair shot, etc.

For example, we have agreed that as a society everyone should be granted access to the Fire department if there house is on fire, access to police department, postal service, telephone service, etc... Yet at what point, did we exclude healthcare from being a necessary element for all of society???? Say what you want about the ER, but I don't personally think that is good enough for our children... I worked for a non-profit organization here in Boston last spring and we had reports of children dying from a toothache....

I end on this. As someone that worked on the campaign I interacted with the poor quite a bit, and there are too many skewed images of who they are, especially the black community... The black community are some of the most religious people I have ever met. Furthermore, practically everybody that I encountered had a job (do you really think one is able to live off of $7.50 an hour, even if they are tight with their money?).... I would go so far as to say that there are more spoiled suburban white collared kids in their twenties who don't have jobs because mommy and daddy still pay for anything than there are jobless folks in the poor communities....

It is sad though, because at some point in our relatively short history we replaced a sense of community for individualism... Everything is about the individual. Hell, even some churches are saying that Jesus wants you to be rich....The question is, is it more important for Donald Trump to have that second yacht or for us to try and help the "least of these." At least that is how I see it. Peace and God bless.
 
#61
#61
WPAINE said:
S

For example, we have agreed that as a society everyone should be granted access to the Fire department if there house is on fire, access to police department, postal service, telephone service, etc... Yet at what point, did we exclude healthcare from being a necessary element for all of society???? Say what you want about the ER, but I don't personally think that is good enough for our children... I worked for a non-profit organization here in Boston last spring and we had reports of children dying from a toothache....
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1. Police and fire departments can be considered as providing for the "general welfare" and are thus a function of the government.

2. If someone claims a right to healthcare, they shouldn't be allowed to smoke, drink to excess, engage in promiscuous sex, or be fat. My tax dollars, if they're going to be spent providing someone else's healthcare, should be spent on healthy people who lead healthy lives. With rights come responsibilities and the problems we have today stem from a welfare state that confers rights on a class of people but never outlines their responsibilities.

3. dying of a toothache?? I'm going to call BS on that one. Unless there was an underlying sepsis or the kid had a ridiculously low pain threshold, there's no way a toothache is going to kill somebody.

again, I don't care if I sound heartless. I don't buy into the emotional side of this argument. Emotion is for charity and charity is best left out of the government's hands.
 
#62
#62
Wow, the longwinded liberal worldview notes from WPaine nearl made me throw up, especially the assumption that the points were nearly universally accepted as gospel.
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#63
#63
WPAINE said:
For example, we have agreed that as a society everyone should be granted access to the Fire department if there house is on fire, access to police department, postal service, telephone service, etc...
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I have never agreed that these "services" should be provided by the tax payer, through the government. Never.
WPAINE said:
I worked for a non-profit organization here in Boston last spring and we had reports of children dying from a toothache....
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How many children did this evil tooth fairy strike?

I suppose this is the case you are referencing:

Twelve-year-old Deamonte Driver died of a toothache Sunday.

A routine, $80 tooth extraction might have saved him.

If his mother had been insured.

If his family had not lost its Medicaid.

If Medicaid dentists weren't so hard to find.

If his mother hadn't been focused on getting a dentist for his brother, who had six rotted teeth.

For Want of a Dentist - washingtonpost.com
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The big "if" that seems to be missing: "If his mother had made hygiene a priority"???
WPAINE said:
It is sad though, because at some point in our relatively short history we replaced a sense of community for individualism... Everything is about the individual. Hell, even some churches are saying that Jesus wants you to be rich....The question is, is it more important for Donald Trump to have that second yacht or for us to try and help the "least of these." At least that is how I see it. Peace and God bless.
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I must have missed the part where our Founding Fathers laid out their argument in favor of the community over the individual.

Your long winded diatribe does nothing to promote your case or to convince us that an intelligent life form is responsible for such a post.

I would like to thank you for humoring me with your distorted, revisionist view of history, the rights of man, social justice, and, apparently, religion.
 
#64
#64
No, the case in Maryland was not the one I was referring to. This took place a few years ago, and it was similar to the one that you posted....

Also, don't turn this into personal attacks. I believe that I am rational, intelligent, and the religious inferences are simply my way of reference - I am currently at Divinity School....

And I do strongly believe that the biggest reason is because individualism has trumped communalism.... Max Weber's "Protestant Ethic" is a good reference that discusses this in further detail...
 
#65
#65
BigPapaVol said:
Wow, the longwinded liberal worldview notes from WPaine nearl made me throw up, especially the assumption that the points were nearly universally accepted as gospel.
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Even though I began the post by stating that this whole thing was trivial and that this was nearly my two cents????
 
#67
#67
Do you not see the irony in what you just said??? I am wrong, because YOU would be more content, and thus since you aren't content with the world today, I am wrong... Sounds pretty individualistic to me....

Have you ever read any of Max Weber's work?
 
#68
#68
WPAINE said:
Do you not see the irony in what you just said??? I am wrong, because YOU would be more content, and thus since you aren't content with the world today, I am wrong... Sounds pretty individualistic to me....

Have you ever read any of Max Weber's work?
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What a ridiculous answer.

You are wrong because the world is heavily communal, while our nation's historical greatness has been steeped in it's incredible individuals.
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#69
#69
WPAINE said:
for us to try and help the "least of these." At least that is how I see it. Peace and God bless.
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[/B]

Please do not use the words of the Bible to advance the socialist agenda of our POTUS.
 
#70
#70
wonder why the church didn't heal that poor child's toothache.
 
#71
#71
T-TownVol said:
[/B]

Please do not use the words of the Bible to advance the socialist agenda of our POTUS.
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You can use the words of the bible to advance your agenda if you would like... It has been done before... I'm not trying to advocate that the Bible endorses a liberal agenda or that Jesus would have been a Democrat or anything, its simply a reference... As mentioned in my earlier posts, I am currently at Divinity School - the bible is a common reference for me...
 
#72
#72
tim said:
wonder why the church didn't heal that poor child's toothache.
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Here is a comic cartoon conversation I read a few years ago...

"Don't you ever want to ask God why he doesn't do anything to help the poor, homeless, and overall evil in the world?"....To which the other guy replied, "Nope. Because I'm afraid he'll ask me the same thing."

As for the Church, I don't know why they didn't do anything. I wish they would have. I feel like they should have.
 
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#73
#73
BigPapaVol said:
What a ridiculous answer.

You are wrong because the world is heavily communal, while our nation's historical greatness has been steeped in it's incredible individuals.
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Come on man. If you disagree with me then fine, but
at no point did I say the WORLD was not communal. I said that in the U.S. individualism was trumping communalism.. My exact quote was, "t is sad though, because at some point in our relatively short history we replaced a sense of community for individualism."

If you claim that our historical greatness has been steeped by individuals then what are some examples? Yes, we have had great individuals in our history, but all of them (at least that I can think of) were backed up by an even stronger community....

And I'm going to throw it out there one last time in hopes I get a response, have any of you all ever read Mex Weber's work on the Protestant Ethic?
 
#74
#74
T-TownVol said:
[/B]

Please do not use the words of the Bible to advance the socialist agenda of our POTUS.
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Actually, I really want to take this a step further... Why is it that you don't want me to use the words of the Bible? Because I am using it out of context? Because you disagree with me? Because it gives the impression that I am implying the Bible as a whole advances a socialist agenda? With something as vast, ambiguous and yet of obvious importance of the Bible I'm curious as to why I can't use it, especially in how I did with the only reference being "to the least of these."

Wouldn't that be similar to me saying please do not use the word "socialist" to advance your own agenda against Obama? Similar in that I obviously think there is a difference between Obama's agenda and socialism whereas, I assume based on your comment, that you think Obama's agenda is socialist...so who am I to say that you can't call his agenda socialist, especially if you think it is???
 
#75
#75
WPAINE said:
Come on man. If you disagree with me then fine, but
at no point did I say the WORLD was not communal. I said that in the U.S. individualism was trumping communalism.. My exact quote was, "t is sad though, because at some point in our relatively short history we replaced a sense of community for individualism."

If you claim that our historical greatness has been steeped by individuals then what are some examples? Yes, we have had great individuals in our history, but all of them (at least that I can think of) were backed up by an even stronger community....

And I'm going to throw it out there one last time in hopes I get a response, have any of you all ever read Mex Weber's work on the Protestant Ethic?
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I think you're absolutely in left field about about individualism dominating our history. Play semantics all you'd like about our world, but I clearly meant the US.

All of the Pilgrims were individuals to the core. Our founding fathers were absolute individuals and individualists. The greatest source of our strength, the industrial revolution and entrepreneurialism, was nothing more than an individualism tour de force.

Those individuals would be: Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, Hancock, N Green, Franklin, Jackson, Lincoln, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Gates, etc etc etc. The list got unmanageable from my cell phone.
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