Obama to back religious freedom at Islam dinner

#176
#176
Oldvol75 said:
Again, prayer was taken out of schools, but yet is let in for Muslims. I'm sorry, but if its OK to remove prayer for one group, then it must be for all groups. That Seperation of Church and State.
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no one has stopped a student from praying in schools. just not publically. where are they allowing muslims to pray in class?
 
#177
#177
emainvol said:
No, I didn't. If Christian students needed to pray 5 times a day they would have the same things done for them.
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No they wouldn't. They would be told it's separation of Church and State. The problem is, the government doesn't see Islam as a "Church" type religion. They don't understand it, thus, they are making every concession they can not to piss them off. Who cares about the Christian's right?? As long as they get their Sunday worship day, right??
 
#178
#178
Oldvol75 said:
What did M. O'Hare sue the government for? Wasn't it to have prayer taken out of schools? Yet we now set up prayer stations for Muslims? Is this not the government respecting a religion?
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I believe that was gov't sponsored prayer
 
#179
#179
CSpindizzy said:
The Old Testament is history of God's chosen people. I'm talking about the teachings of Jesus. Tell me where Jesus advocates a response of killing for any purpose?

I'm not picking and choosing. I will be happy to go into detail and even list other places where killing is a justified response to various scenarios - none taken out of context. These are all commands from Muhammed as to how to live and respond. Again, show me what teachings of Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. tell me where as a Christian my response to ANY scenario is to kill if being persecuted.

Muhammed was a military leader? Yes. After he began preaching his faith. He was a shepherd and merchant. Once he got his revelation and began proselytizing, he became a 'military leader'. It seems his faith brought him to a militant point which advocated killing. I look at the founder and see he has quite a bit of blood on his hands in order to serve justice. His faith took him from a peaceful merchant and shepherd to one who acted on his preaching of killing as a means of justice, punishment, etc.

I look at Jesus' response to persecution just as Muhammed was persecuted. I compare not only the teachings but the actions. Between the two, there are vast differences.

Now you can pick all day from the Old Testament. But I compare the foundations of both faiths - I compare Jesus and Muhammed. I compare the teachings coming from the Gospels, the epistles, etc. and then to the Quran. I compare the lives of Jesus and Muhammed - their beginnings and the results of their teachings and the persecutions they faced along with the responses there. I look at what becomes the writings that each faith begins from. Nothing in comparison.
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today you follow just the new testament. chrisitans 1000 years ago didn't have your same beliefs. i assume you also find value in the 10 commandments as well? how is that not picking and chosing which part of the book is ok and which can be disregarded?
 
#180
#180
CSpindizzy said:
Show me where Jesus commanded killing as a response. And don't give me the nonsense about the history portion of the Old Testament. I am talking about the teachings Christians live by. Show me where Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. commanded to kill. Compare the lives of Muhammed and Jesus.
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Again, you omitted the next verse in the passage you quoted

Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant, or (those who) come unto you because their hearts forbid them to make war on you or make war on their own folk. Had Allah willed He could have given them power over you so that assuredly they would have fought you. So, if they hold aloof from you and wage not war against you and offer you peace, Allah alloweth you no way against them.
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Not nearly as violent when not taken out of context is it?
 
#181
#181
g8terh8ter_eric said:
No they wouldn't. They would be told it's separation of Church and State. The problem is, the government doesn't see Islam as a "Church" type religion. They don't understand it, thus, they are making every concession they can not to piss them off. Who cares about the Christian's right?? As long as they get their Sunday worship day, right??
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Oh get off your "woe is me" persecution bull****. Some of you guys are as bad as the people that pull the race cards
 
#182
#182
droski said:
today you follow just the new testament. chrisitans 1000 years ago didn't have your same beliefs. i assume you also find value in the 10 commandments as well? how is that not picking and chosing which part of the book is ok and which can be disregarded?
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Jews = Old Testament

Christians = New Testament

The Bible clearly deals with two different sets of people. The Old Testament is the history of how things happened before Jesus. Today, Christians, not Jews, follow the New Testament. That's really simple. Old Testament laws do not apply to us, just the two commandments that Jesus instructed us to keep.
 
#184
#184
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Jews = Old Testament

Christians = New Testament

The Bible clearly deals with two different sets of people. The Old Testament is the history of how things happened before Jesus. Today, Christians, not Jews, follow the New Testament. That's really simple. Old Testament laws do not apply to us, just the two commandments that Jesus instructed us to keep.
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So you are saying Jews are as bad as Muslims? Why the hell do we support them then?
 
#186
#186
emainvol said:
So you are saying Jews are as bad as Muslims? Why the hell do we support them then?
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How many Jews have killed Christians in the United States and abroad?? I'll wait for you to come up with a number, because your not going to see any. They worship the same God, just don't believe in how to get to heaven the same way.
 
#187
#187
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Jews = Old Testament

Christians = New Testament

The Bible clearly deals with two different sets of people. The Old Testament is the history of how things happened before Jesus. Today, Christians, not Jews, follow the New Testament. That's really simple. Old Testament laws do not apply to us, just the two commandments that Jesus instructed us to keep.
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so why are the 10 commandments taught in every sunday school if old testament laws don't apply to you? why include hte old testement at all?
 
#188
#188
Out of all of you that hate Muslims and think they want to kill you, how many of you actually know any Muslims?
 
#192
#192
g8terh8ter_eric said:
How many Jews have killed Christians in the United States and abroad?? I'll wait for you to come up with a number, because your not going to see any. They worship the same God, just don't believe in how to get to heaven the same way.
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so why do you blame the book for the problems?
 
#193
#193
droski said:
so why are the 10 commandments taught in every sunday school if old testament laws don't apply to you? why include hte old testement at all?
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They are taught as history, not something Christians follow. Plus, it's basic instruction on how to live. It's not what we follow now.
 
#194
#194
g8terh8ter_eric said:
How many Jews have killed Christians in the United States and abroad?? I'll wait for you to come up with a number, because your not going to see any. They worship the same God, just don't believe in how to get to heaven the same way.
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But the Old Testament tells them to. Surely since their doctrine tells them to kill people they are bound to do it. Like all Muslims right? You should take a step back and look at how dumb this line of argument is.
 
#199
#199
droski said:
today you follow just the new testament. chrisitans 1000 years ago didn't have your same beliefs. i assume you also find value in the 10 commandments as well? how is that not picking and chosing which part of the book is ok and which can be disregarded?
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You're killing me here. If you're referring to the Crusaders, then nice try. Clearly these people did not actually live by what Christ's teachings were.

I find "value" in the whole Bible Old and New. What does "value" have to do with what Jesus and Muhammed did? Don't pull something cheap like this and drift off target. I thought you were better than this. We're talking about the actual teachings and actions of the 'founders' of the faith here. Not interpretations or the misguided actions hundreds of years after the fact. Stick with the facts. I'll be happy to go off on your last sentence but show me how Jesus and Muhammed compare. Show me where Jesus commanded killing. Show me where while he was here on earth did the same thing as Muhammed and went around killing people in the name of God.
 
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