Official Global Warming thread (merged)

Too many people make absolute claims about climate change (usually do to political partisanship) without ever citing facts or doing any serious scientific probing at all. Both sides are guilty of it but conservatives in general, are more guilty of lacking intellectual curiosity when it comes to science. How do scientists know that today's warming is at least partially attributable to humans putting too much carbon in the atmosphere when we burn coal, oil or gas? I will mention 3 points which I can think of just off the top of my head:

1) There are human fingerprints on carbon overload. When humans burn coal, oil and gas (fossil fuels) to generate electricity carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere, where it traps heat. A carbon molecule that comes from fossil fuels is "lighter" than the combined signal of those that come from other sources. As scientists measure the "weight" of carbon in the atmosphere over time they see a clear increase in the lighter molecules from fossil fuel sources that correspond closely with the known trend in emissions.

2) Natural changes alone can't explain the temperature changes we've seen. For a computer model to accurately project the future climate, scientists must first ensure that it accurately reproduces observed temperature changes. When the models include only recorded natural climate drivers - such as the sun's intensity - the models cannot accurately reproduce the observed warming of the past half century. However, when human-induced climate drivers are also included in the models, they accurately capture recent temperature increases in the atmosphere and in the oceans. When all the natural and human-induced climate drivers are compared to one another, the dramatic accumulation of carbon from human sources is by far the largest climate change driver over the past half century.

3) Lower-level atmosphere - which contains the carbon load - is expanding. The boundary between the lower atmosphere (troposphere) and the higher atmosphere (stratosphere) has shifted upward in recent decades. This boundary has likely changed because heat-trapping gases accumulate in the lower atmosphere and that atmospheric layer expands as it heats up (much like warming the air in a balloon). Because less heat is escaping into the atmosphere, it is likely cooling. This differential would not occur if the sun was the sole climate driver, as solar changes would warm both atmospheric layers and would not have warmed one while cooling the other.

As I stated in an earlier post, I am not an environmental zealot but I also think this issue should be about science - not politics... and yet it is somehow always political. Conservatives don't listen to science and are skeptical while liberals do listen to science but can also be stubborn whenever there is conflicting information...

If anyone here wants to dispute this (admittedly) long post, please just argue the science not politics. I don't care what Rush Limbaugh and Fox News thinks.

#2- Explain the exceptional warming of the earth during the time of Pangea. Also explain how the movements of the continental shelf changed the climates of areas due to the movement of the plates. Explain how these changes in the land masses effected ocean currents and the cooling and warming cycles. Explain why we have had periods of large masses of ice,melting, icing, melting. Explain mans impact on these natural occurrences

Also, please dive into weather patterns, earths tilt, earths orbit on climate. How the earth doesnt always tilt the same amount every year on its axis. How a few degrees can determine types of weather, heat, cold, etcc.

Now, lets go into the natural extinction of species such as dinosaurs and other large mammals. The changes in the salinity of the oceans. Amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere(last time CO2 was higher, humans were not on the planet)

The climate alarmists are worshipping a false god. The earth will determine whether we live or die, not humans
 
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Too many people make absolute claims about climate change (usually do to political partisanship) without ever citing facts or doing any serious scientific probing at all. Both sides are guilty of it but conservatives in general, are more guilty of lacking intellectual curiosity when it comes to science. How do scientists know that today's warming is at least partially attributable to humans putting too much carbon in the atmosphere when we burn coal, oil or gas? I will mention 3 points which I can think of just off the top of my head:

1) There are human fingerprints on carbon overload. When humans burn coal, oil and gas (fossil fuels) to generate electricity carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere, where it traps heat. A carbon molecule that comes from fossil fuels is "lighter" than the combined signal of those that come from other sources. As scientists measure the "weight" of carbon in the atmosphere over time they see a clear increase in the lighter molecules from fossil fuel sources that correspond closely with the known trend in emissions.

2) Natural changes alone can't explain the temperature changes we've seen. For a computer model to accurately project the future climate, scientists must first ensure that it accurately reproduces observed temperature changes. When the models include only recorded natural climate drivers - such as the sun's intensity - the models cannot accurately reproduce the observed warming of the past half century. However, when human-induced climate drivers are also included in the models, they accurately capture recent temperature increases in the atmosphere and in the oceans. When all the natural and human-induced climate drivers are compared to one another, the dramatic accumulation of carbon from human sources is by far the largest climate change driver over the past half century.

3) Lower-level atmosphere - which contains the carbon load - is expanding. The boundary between the lower atmosphere (troposphere) and the higher atmosphere (stratosphere) has shifted upward in recent decades. This boundary has likely changed because heat-trapping gases accumulate in the lower atmosphere and that atmospheric layer expands as it heats up (much like warming the air in a balloon). Because less heat is escaping into the atmosphere, it is likely cooling. This differential would not occur if the sun was the sole climate driver, as solar changes would warm both atmospheric layers and would not have warmed one while cooling the other.

As I stated in an earlier post, I am not an environmental zealot but I also think this issue should be about science - not politics... and yet it is somehow always political. Conservatives don't listen to science and are skeptical while liberals do listen to science but can also be stubborn whenever there is conflicting information...

If anyone here wants to dispute this (admittedly) long post, please just argue the science not politics. I don't care what Rush Limbaugh and Fox News thinks.

I'm a conservative and I don't believe the scientists claims that humans are responsible for climate change. The climate on this planet has changed over the centuries and mellinia but somehow we think we can change it? The change we have made in CO2 is in the fractions of a percent and yet we claim that is the cause of all of our woes?
This earth has been around for billions of years, we have been around for tens of thousands of years. Humans will be extinct in a blink of an eye of this worlds history.
 
No. Don't go. Serious Q, how have you changed your behaviors since learning of the imminent threat?

Ok but no interest in debating.
People can make amazing points as long as the truth appears debatable.

Imo, the largest impact I had was to listen to people far more important than I and push them towards their true beliefs over talking points. As you can imagine, that impact was extremely low, percentage wise.

On a personal level? A few ways but not some hippie transformation. I live much like I assume you do. However, I research energy efficiency beyond just personal savings and I actively support local efforts that both promote financial gain for business while also making gains in reversing detrimental behavior.

The real answer is making "green" lucrative for corporations.

I could shower in a creek and eat as much kale as I could tolerate to offset cow farts and the only result would be me having more gas than the cow.
The collective effort is the most productive path and it doesn't have to be anti business. Look around, many established corporations have profited off of their acceptance. The only thing standing in the way of that being the norm is, political nut jobs refusing to accept reality because it doesn't jive with what their favorite candidate 'John Wayne Billy Bob true conservative' days publicly. Despite how stupid he find his constituents privately.
 
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Ok but no interest in debating.
People can make amazing points as long as the truth appears debatable.

Imo, the largest impact I had was to listen to people far more important than I and push them towards their true beliefs over talking points. As you can imagine, that impact was extremely low, percentage wise.

On a personal level? A few ways but not some hippie transformation. I live much like I assume you do. However, I research energy efficiency beyond just personal savings and I actively support local efforts that both promote financial gain for business while also making gains in reversing detrimental behavior.

The real answer is making "green" lucrative for corporations.

I could shower in a creek and eat as much kale as I could tolerate to offset cow farts and the only result would be me having more gas than the cow.
The collective effort is the most productive path and it doesn't have to be anti business. Look around, many established corporations have profited off of their acceptance. The only thing standing in the way of that being the norm is, political nut jobs refusing to accept reality because it doesn't jive with what their favorite candidate 'John Wayne Billy Bob true conservative' days publicly. Despite how stupid he find his constituents privately.

Thanks for the answer. Will not debate. Will mock you mercilessly, tho. :wink:
 
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Ok but no interest in debating.
People can make amazing points as long as the truth appears debatable.

Imo, the largest impact I had was to listen to people far more important than I and push them towards their true beliefs over talking points. As you can imagine, that impact was extremely low, percentage wise.

On a personal level? A few ways but not some hippie transformation. I live much like I assume you do. However, I research energy efficiency beyond just personal savings and I actively support local efforts that both promote financial gain for business while also making gains in reversing detrimental behavior.

The real answer is making "green" lucrative for corporations.

I could shower in a creek and eat as much kale as I could tolerate to offset cow farts and the only result would be me having more gas than the cow.
The collective effort is the most productive path and it doesn't have to be anti business. Look around, many established corporations have profited off of their acceptance. The only thing standing in the way of that being the norm is, political nut jobs refusing to accept reality because it doesn't jive with what their favorite candidate 'John Wayne Billy Bob true conservative' days publicly. Despite how stupid he find his constituents privately.

The scientists use computer models to determine the probability of an increasingly warmer planet. Those models can be manipulated either for or against the warming(change). A few small data points left out can change the outlook in your favor.

This is fact. Data out is only as accurate as data in.

History will not be kind to the false prophets of man-made global hysteria
 
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It's really been crippling California's economy. You know, the fact is the opposite seems to be true....go figure.

I remember when I was growing up, Acid rain was going to kill the planet. We were all doomed. All the trees in the Smokies were going to die off by the year 2000

Al Gore was a nutcase then
 
The scientists use computer models to determine the probability of an increasingly warmer planet. Those models can be manipulated either for or against the warming(change). A few small data points left out can change the outlook in your favor.

This is fact. Data out is only as accurate as data in.

History will not be kind to the false prophets of man-made global hysteria

And yet another regular makes his way to our dysfunctional terror dome.

How ya doin, count?
 
I remember when I was growing up, Acid rain was going to kill the planet. We were all doomed. All the trees in the Smokies were going to die off by the year 2000

Al Gore was a nutcase then

Mentioned similar 5 pages back. Listed a littany of lies lobbed predicting calamities. Total forgot about acid rain.
 
The scientists use computer models to determine the probability of an increasingly warmer planet. Those models can be manipulated either for or against the warming(change). A few small data points left out can change the outlook in your favor.

This is fact. Data out is only as accurate as data in.

History will not be kind to the false prophets of man-made global hysteria

Everything you said is true and I have already stated as much. However, the only thing being altered is the amount of the effect, not the effect itself.
The only place where you falter, is the last sentence.

History will look back at the denial of the realistic impact with an unappreciative stance. There is no way I can make you understand other than words. But the words I speak, I have absolutely zero doubt in. And unlike a partisan spectator, those beliefs are formed from experience not loyalty.
 
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Everything you said is true and I have already stated as much. However, the only thing being altered is the amount of the effect, not the effect itself.
The only place where you falter, is the last sentence.

History will look back at the denial of the realistic impact with an unappreciative stance. There is no way I can make you understand other than words. But the words I speak, I have absolutely zero doubt in. And unlike a partisan spectator, those beliefs are formed from experience not loyalty.

Experience, no. Observation and prediction, yes.
 
Everything you said is true and I have already stated as much. However, the only thing being altered is the amount of the effect, not the effect itself.
The only place where you falter, is the last sentence.

History will look back at the denial of the realistic impact with an unappreciative stance. There is no way I can make you understand other than words. But the words I speak, I have absolutely zero doubt in. And unlike a partisan spectator, those beliefs are formed from experience not loyalty.

I have billions of years of earths history on my side
 
What would it take to freeze an elephant so fast that when thawed some several thousand years later you could have elephant steak?
 
Ok but no interest in debating.
People can make amazing points as long as the truth appears debatable.

Imo, the largest impact I had was to listen to people far more important than I and push them towards their true beliefs over talking points. As you can imagine, that impact was extremely low, percentage wise.

On a personal level? A few ways but not some hippie transformation. I live much like I assume you do. However, I research energy efficiency beyond just personal savings and I actively support local efforts that both promote financial gain for business while also making gains in reversing detrimental behavior.

The real answer is making "green" lucrative for corporations.

I could shower in a creek and eat as much kale as I could tolerate to offset cow farts and the only result would be me having more gas than the cow.
The collective effort is the most productive path and it doesn't have to be anti business. Look around, many established corporations have profited off of their acceptance. The only thing standing in the way of that being the norm is, political nut jobs refusing to accept reality because it doesn't jive with what their favorite candidate 'John Wayne Billy Bob true conservative' days publicly. Despite how stupid he find his constituents privately.

Thanks for a great post!
 
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Experience, no. Observation and prediction, yes.

We're good brother.
I was perfectly aware where everyone stood when I made the original post.
Shocker - exactly down party lines.
Because 'only those other guys make up crap for personal and party gains'.


You being civil and open to opposing info is all I can ask.


One favor, just think about my original post. Are we too insignificant to have an impact and could we (including business) benefit from slowly adjusting course.

You know the old religious debate? If I'm wrong, we all live a better life. If you're wrong, you go to hell?
In this situation, the conservatives are the atheists.


Buncha heathens'
 
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I'm curious as to how many purchase that green energy option that's available on your bill? You know, the green energy that cost more.
 

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