Oh Wonderful! Flu Vaccine May Not Work

#76
#76
Velo Vol said:
Thanks. I really should get a shot. I take immune suppression drugs, which makes the prospect of getting sick even worse.



Sure. No one ever had a problem with the flu before doctors started giving shots. /headdesk

1918 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Again in English, I take the vaccine! I'm not saying it kills people or isn't a good thing. I just find it odd that every year we take it, then get the flu and its always a different strain. I apologize for having an opinion, may the liberal minded forgive me.
 
#77
#77
I like the excerpt below, taken from the flu vaccine insert itself. Gives me enormous confidence in the vaccine. Oh, here's a link for those who ask for such things: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM220624.pdf

"6.2 Postmarketing Experience
Beyond those events reported above in the clinical trials for FLUARIX QUADRIVALENT or FLUARIX, the following adverse events have been spontaneously reported during postapproval use of FLUARIX (trivalent influenza vaccine). This list includes serious events or events which have causal connection to FLUARIX. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequency or establish a causal relationship to the vaccine.
Blood and Lymphatic System Disorders: Lymphadenopathy.
Cardiac Disorders: Tachycardia.
Ear and Labyrinth Disorders: Vertigo.
Eye Disorders: Conjunctivitis, eye irritation, eye pain, eye redness, eye swelling, eyelid swelling.
Gastrointestinal Disorders: Abdominal pain or discomfort, swelling of the mouth, throat, and/or tongue.
General Disorders and Administration Site Conditions: Asthenia, chest pain, feeling hot, injection site mass, injection site reaction, injection site warmth, body aches.
Immune System Disorders: Anaphylactic reaction including shock, anaphylactoid reaction, hypersensitivity, serum sickness.
Infections and Infestations: Injection site abscess, injection site cellulitis, pharyngitis, rhinitis, tonsillitis.
Nervous System Disorders: Convulsion, encephalomyelitis, facial palsy, facial paresis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, hypoesthesia, myelitis, neuritis, neuropathy, paresthesia, syncope.
Respiratory, Thoracic, and Mediastinal Disorders: Asthma, bronchospasm, dyspnea, respiratory distress, stridor.
Skin and Subcutaneous Tissue Disorders: Angioedema, erythema, erythema multiforme, facial swelling, pruritus, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, sweating, urticaria.
Vascular Disorders: Henoch-Schönlein purpura, vasculitis."
 
#78
#78
Oh yeah, good luck trying to get the quadrivalent vaccine. Apparently this version is handed out through some type of lottery.
 
#80
#80
Well my wife's flu passed quickly. Maybe because she knew she had been exposed and got in tamiflu quickly. Maybe because she had the flu shot and it helped keep it in check somewhat. She never even had a fever.

So far neither of the kids nor myself have shown any symptoms. We may have lucked out.
 
#81
#81
I don't get the flu shot, but that's because of an undiagnosed nervous disease I had a few years ago. Even though the risk is minor, I don't want to mess with that ish again. (No the flu shot didn't cause it.)
 
#82
#82
jamesd1628 said:
I like the excerpt below, taken from the flu vaccine insert itself. Gives me enormous confidence in the vaccine. Oh, here's a link for those who ask for such things: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM220624.pdf

"6.2 Postmarketing Experience
Beyond those events reported above in the clinical trials for FLUARIX QUADRIVALENT or FLUARIX, the following adverse events have been spontaneously reported during postapproval use of FLUARIX (trivalent influenza vaccine). This list includes serious events or events which have causal connection to FLUARIX. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequency or establish a causal relationship to the vaccine.
Blood and Lymphatic System Disorders: Lymphadenopathy.
Cardiac Disorders: Tachycardia.
Ear and Labyrinth Disorders: Vertigo.
Eye Disorders: Conjunctivitis, eye irritation, eye pain, eye redness, eye swelling, eyelid swelling.
Gastrointestinal Disorders: Abdominal pain or discomfort, swelling of the mouth, throat, and/or tongue.
General Disorders and Administration Site Conditions: Asthenia, chest pain, feeling hot, injection site mass, injection site reaction, injection site warmth, body aches.
Immune System Disorders: Anaphylactic reaction including shock, anaphylactoid reaction, hypersensitivity, serum sickness.
Infections and Infestations: Injection site abscess, injection site cellulitis, pharyngitis, rhinitis, tonsillitis.
Nervous System Disorders: Convulsion, encephalomyelitis, facial palsy, facial paresis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, hypoesthesia, myelitis, neuritis, neuropathy, paresthesia, syncope.
Respiratory, Thoracic, and Mediastinal Disorders: Asthma, bronchospasm, dyspnea, respiratory distress, stridor.
Skin and Subcutaneous Tissue Disorders: Angioedema, erythema, erythema multiforme, facial swelling, pruritus, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, sweating, urticaria.
Vascular Disorders: Henoch-Schönlein purpura, vasculitis."
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Have you ever read the fine print of any medication's "possible" side-effects? There is nothing unusual about the above. Surprise! There is no conspiracy.
 
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#83
#83
Coug said:
Oh yeah, good luck trying to get the quadrivalent vaccine. Apparently this version is handed out through some type of lottery.
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Interesting. All we have at our office are quadrivalent.
 
#84
#84
This might be fun. I'll list reported side effects, you guess the medication. First:

GI bleeding
GI perforation/ulcer
MI
stroke
thromboembolism
HTN
CHF
renal papillary necrosis
nephrotoxicity
hepatotoxicity
anaphylaxis/anaphylactoid rxn
bronchospasm
exfoliative dermatitis
Stevens-Johnson syndrome
toxic epidermal necrolysis
thrombocytopenia
agranulocytosis
aplastic anemia
anemia, hemolytic
neutropenia
pancytopenia

dyspepsia
nausea
abdominal pain
constipation
headache
dizziness
drowsiness
rash
ALT, AST elevated
fluid retention
tinnitus
ecchymosis
photosensitivity

Any guess?
 
#85
#85
kiddiedoc said:
This might be fun. I'll list reported side effects, you guess the medication. First:

GI bleeding
GI perforation/ulcer
MI
stroke
thromboembolism
HTN
CHF
renal papillary necrosis
nephrotoxicity
hepatotoxicity
anaphylaxis/anaphylactoid rxn
bronchospasm
exfoliative dermatitis
Stevens-Johnson syndrome
toxic epidermal necrolysis
thrombocytopenia
agranulocytosis
aplastic anemia
anemia, hemolytic
neutropenia
pancytopenia

dyspepsia
nausea
abdominal pain
constipation
headache
dizziness
drowsiness
rash
ALT, AST elevated
fluid retention
tinnitus
ecchymosis
photosensitivity

Any guess?
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I'm gonna guess an NSAID like say.... Ibuprofen or naproxen.
 
#86
#86
kiddiedoc said:
This might be fun. I'll list reported side effects, you guess the medication. First:

GI bleeding
GI perforation/ulcer
MI
stroke
thromboembolism
HTN
CHF
renal papillary necrosis
nephrotoxicity
hepatotoxicity
anaphylaxis/anaphylactoid rxn
bronchospasm
exfoliative dermatitis
Stevens-Johnson syndrome
toxic epidermal necrolysis
thrombocytopenia
agranulocytosis
aplastic anemia
anemia, hemolytic
neutropenia
pancytopenia

dyspepsia
nausea
abdominal pain
constipation
headache
dizziness
drowsiness
rash
ALT, AST elevated
fluid retention
tinnitus
ecchymosis
photosensitivity

Any guess?
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Probably children's tylenol. Ha. I googled quite a bit. I had never heard of Stevens-Johnson syndrome. Damn son. what is it?
 
#87
#87
kiddiedoc said:
Have you ever read the fine print of any medication's "possible" side-effects? There is nothing unusual about the above. Surprise! There is no conspiracy.
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I'm not sure that your conclusion follows from your statements. "All other mainstream drugs have horrible side effects too; therefore, no conspiracy." Interesting.

I always crack up at those commercials advertising some wonderful drug, and 90% of the commercial is used to provide a list of the horrendous side effects. It's hilarious.
 
#88
#88
jamesd1628 said:
I'm not sure that your conclusion follows from your statements. "All other mainstream drugs have horrible side effects too; therefore, no conspiracy." Interesting.

I always crack up at those commercials advertising some wonderful drug, and 90% of the commercial is used to provide a list of the horrendous side effects. It's hilarious.
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No, what's hilarious about a list of "possible" side-effects that no one you know has ever seen? Point is, those effects are extremely unlikely. Risk/benefit.

The medication I listed was ibuprofen. Have your skin, mucous membranes, and eyes ever turned red, blistered, and peeled off after a dose of Advil? (That's Steven Johnson Syndrome). Have you had a heart attack?

I vaccinate thousands of kids every year for the flu. Guess what happens? They almost never get the flu and I've never had any serious adverse reactions in 10 years. Guess what else? Zero deaths from flu-related illness.

In case you missed it, we live in an era where people like to sue for almost any negative outcome. Hence, the "90%" of the commercial and paperwork informing of adverse reactions. It has nothing to do with probability.

Bottom line: if you are avoiding a flu shot based on the safety insert from a vaccine, you should reconsider.
 
#90
#90
kiddiedoc said:
Interesting. All we have at our office are quadrivalent.
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Well, I didn't call around everywhere but both the shots supplied to flu shot Saturday and the one's supplied by my local Walgreen's the quadrivalent seemed difficult to come by. I didn't contact my own doctors office because one of my family members worked the flu shot Saturday and had some extras. I might try my doctors office next season and see what they have.

I know you mentioned you normally get the mist, did your office also have the quadrivalent shot?
 
#92
#92
kiddiedoc said:
Have your skin, mucous membranes, and eyes ever turned red, blistered, and peeled off after a dose of Advil? (That's Steven Johnson Syndrome). Have you had a heart attack?
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No, but those things have happened to someone from taking it; otherwise, it wouldn't be listed as a side effect.

kiddiedoc said:
No, what's hilarious about a list of "possible" side-effects that no one you know has ever seen? Point is, those effects are extremely unlikely. Risk/benefit.
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First of all, I know many people who have suffered side effects from the flu shot, and it would appear that all of those side effects are listed in the insert (for good reason, obviously). I don't know anyone who has suffered severe side effects (e.g., anaphylactic shock, convulsions, etc.), but again, those have happened to someone or it wouldn't be listed.

Secondly, I've also never known anyone who ever died from the flu. By your analysis then, it must be extremely unlikely. Wouldn't risk/benefit analysis by your example then tell you that you don't need a flu shot, which in and of itself creates a whole new level of risk with a whole new set of potential side effects? Especially when you consider that the "benefit" side of the equation may be non-existent, since (i) vaccines play a guessing game as to which flu strains might be active, and (ii) the virus apparently mutates regularly to outwit the potential vaccine (the original point of this thread, I believe)?
 
#94
#94
kiddiedoc said:
This is being lost with the efficacy of vaccines. We forget history. Our grandparents would never have imagined people would refuse vaccines, when so many of them lost family members to polio, measles, pneumococcus, HiB, meningitis, whooping cough, chicken pox, influenza, etc.
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My husband (65 next month) remembers public swimming pools being closed all summer due to polio outbreaks. My ex-husband (67) lost a friend to polio as a kid. I remember standing in a long line around age 4 at a Penney's to get the new polio shot. The line just crawled, and I stared at an iron lung with a kid mannequin inside for at least a half hour. (I'm a youthful 60.) I had nightmares for months. We are now seeing patients with post-polio syndrome, where affected limbs are growing weak.

Until HIV/AIDS came along, younger Boomers born in the 50's felt invincible, because we just didn't have epidemics any more. Of course, we had the practice evacuations from elementary school for nuclear attacks...
 
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#95
#95
jamesd1628 said:
...Secondly, I've also never known anyone who ever died from the flu. By your analysis then, it must be extremely unlikely...
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How wide is your circle of acquaintances? At my work, I have looked at the records of quite a few people who died from complications of flu, including pneumonia and respiratory failure. Many many more were severely weakened, winding up in nursing homes or with new chronic problems (respiratory, debility) that will shorten the lifespan and the quality of life for many. So they didn't die from flu, but they were circling the drain for a while, and it took hospitalization and a ton of expensive (and dangerous) drugs to save them, and many did not fully recover.

Granted, many were elderly or vulnerable in some other way, but it certainly mattered to them. Young children can be severely affected as well.

Public health programs like vaccinations are meant to protect others as well as yourself. Sure, a young healthy person might get through flu with just a few unhappy days, but if they're visiting Grandma when they're contagious, that's another thing. And even if Grandma got her flu shot, she might not be completely protected, as mentioned above.

When there is widespread use of flu shots, there is less flu in the general population and thus less risk of exposure for those who can't afford to get it.
 
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#96
#96
VolNExile said:
My husband (65 next month) remembers public swimming pools being closed all summer due to polio outbreaks. My ex-husband (67) lost a friend to polio as a kid. I remember standing in a long line around age 4 at a Penney's to get the new polio shot. The line just crawled, and I stared at an iron lung with a kid mannequin inside for at least a half hour. (I'm a youthful 60.) I had nightmares for months. We are now seeing patients with post-polio syndrome, where affected limbs are growing weak.

Until HIV/AIDS came along, younger Boomers born in the 50's felt invincible, because we just didn't have epidemics any more. Of course, we had the practice evacuations from elementary school for nuclear attacks...
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Thanks for sharing this. My oldest partner began practicing before the HiB vaccine, and I sometimes have him relate to parents just exactly how terrible that disease could be. It used to be the #1 cause of infant sepsis and bacterial meningitis, which killed 1/3 babies who contacted it. 90+ cases in his practice in less than a decade. 6 months after the vaccine hit the market, this community has never seen another case.
 
#97
#97
jamesd1628 said:
Secondly, I've also never known anyone who ever died from the flu.
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Well, then, you are fortunate. 10's of thousands die every year from influenza and its complications. That's not an insignificant number. Nearly as important is the loss of productivity in the workforce and school. 5-7 days out of work or school is a huge burden when multiplied times hundreds of thousands.

If you want to argue that the flu is not a serious illness and does not pose a real threat, especially to the elderly, young children, and those with certain chronic conditions, carry on. You will remain wrong, and that should be readily apparent to anyone with any medical knowledge and common sense. In addition, it is reckless and potentially dangerous to those around you to avoid vaccination and to engage in fear mongering tactics. You really are putting others at risk.
 
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#98
#98
I predict the vaccine will be government mandated in the near future anyway. Might as well get used to it.
 
#99
#99
kiddiedoc said:
Well, then, you are fortunate. 10's of thousands die every year from influenza and its complications. That's not an insignificant number. Nearly as important is the loss of productivity in the workforce and school. 5-7 days out of work or school is a huge burden when multiplied times hundreds of thousands.

If you want to argue that the flu is not a serious illness and does not pose a real threat, especially to the elderly, young children, and those with certain chronic conditions, carry on. You will remain wrong, and that should be readily apparent to anyone with any medical knowledge and common sense. In addition, it is reckless and potentially dangerous to those around you to avoid vaccination and to engage in fear mongering tactics. You really are putting others at risk.
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I would call that ironic considering the extent to which the vaccine campaign as a whole, not to mention the entirety of your post, is based on fear mongering.

Edit: And by the way, I didn't argue that the flu isn't real or that it doesn't pose a threat, only that I question the idea that the vaccine provides more benefit than risk.
 
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#100
#100
kiddiedoc with some FACT mongering. Whatever your personal opinions or experiences are with vaccinations, the benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks associated with vaccination and even further outweigh the consequences of catching the disease.
 
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