Ok let's say we concede the fact that

[volfan411]

I guess that's partially my point. It just seems a bit unfair to hold people accountable to invented expectations that really don't match the state of our program vs the quality of the teams we've lost to/gotten embarrassed by.

This^^^

 

[volsack7]

Good grief, some of you guys act as if the other teams do absolutely nothing to prepare for us. "Shouldn't we be improving? Why are we regressing?" Blah blah. Auburn, Missouri - they are improving, too, and at a much faster rate than we are. That's what happens when you have TALENT and SYSTEM STABILITY. Their coaches game plan for us just like we do for them...they don't just sit there stagnant and wait for us to catch up to them. Our coaches are implementing their system after 5 straight years of 4 different defensive coordinators.

Sure, we had a great game plan against UGA and USCe, and sure, Missouri and Auburn beat us bad. Notice anything about those team pairings? UGA and USCe = traditional, balanced attacks. MIZ and AUB = spread offenses. Clearly our weakness is a spread offense; we just don't have the speedy horses to keep up. Why can't some of you accept that?

Look, I want us to win as much as anyone, but if you have ever taught or coached a team before, you know it takes SO MUCH TIME to change a culture, to change discipline, to change attitudes, to change the way people prepare themselves. It cannot be done in one year, no matter how much we want it to. What this team needs from its fans right now is unconditional support for the next two games, possibly three, and all of next year. They need to know that we believe they can succeed. A positive, patient fanbase helps in recruiting, the coaches' & player's overall stress level, and ultimately (I believe) their ability to succeed on the field. If we have not seen any significant improvement after the third year of the Jones' era, then I believe it will be time for serious doubt.

 

[QVOL81]

I think the opponents and depth had something to do with the "regression"

We can only use that excuse if we play good against vandy.

 

[QVOL81]

Good grief, some of you guys act as if the other teams do absolutely nothing to prepare for us. "Shouldn't we be improving? Why are we regressing?" Blah blah. Auburn, Missouri - they are improving, too, and at a much faster rate than we are. That's what happens when you have TALENT and SYSTEM STABILITY. Their coaches game plan for us just like we do for them...they don't just sit there stagnant and wait for us to catch up to them. Our coaches are implementing their system after 5 straight years of 4 different defensive coordinators.

Sure, we had a great game plan against UGA and USCe, and sure, Missouri and Auburn beat us bad. Notice anything about those team pairings? UGA and USCe = traditional, balanced attacks. MIZ and AUB = spread offenses. Clearly our weakness is a spread offense; we just don't have the speedy horses to keep up. Why can't some of you accept that?

Look, I want us to win as much as anyone, but if you have ever taught or coached a team before, you know it takes SO MUCH TIME to change a culture, to change discipline, to change attitudes, to change the way people prepare themselves. It cannot be done in one year, no matter how much we want it to. What this team needs from its fans right now is unconditional support for the next two games, possibly three, and all of next year. They need to know that we believe they can succeed. A positive, patient fanbase helps in recruiting, the coaches' & player's overall stress level, and ultimately (I believe) their ability to succeed on the field. If we have not seen any significant improvement after the third year of the Jones' era, then I believe it will be time for serious doubt.

Do you seriously expect anyone to read that?

 

[volsack7]

Do you seriously expect anyone to read that?

Yes.

If three short paragraphs is too trying for our fanbase's patience, then our coaching staff has no chance.

 

[UTVolWarrior98]

Yes.

If three short paragraphs is too trying for our fanbase's patience, then our coaching staff has no chance.

I actually just read it word for word, and I must say that I came away thinking a bit differently about things...almost a totally different perspective lol Yes, Im one of those negavols that demands and expects more, but that post really has opened my eyes, Ill admit.hmy:

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Do you seriously expect anyone to read that?

Well you are on a message board. Did you want him to draw pictures with crayon to make it easier on you? Do you look at the picture menus when you go out to eat? Good grief!!!

 

[sjt18]

I still feel better about this staff than I did in year one of Dooley but only time will tell if this staff can get it done. .

I feel better about Jones than Dooley. I don't about Jancek vs Wilcox. I am neutral Jake vs Chaney. I'm not sure I would not trade someone off this staff to bring Sirmon, Thompson, or Baggett back. I always thought Hinshaw was a pretty solid coach.

Dooley's first staff wasn't terrible. The were actually probably too good for him.

 

[Vol8188]

comparing Auburn versus Tennessee is comparing apples to oranges. Would you "others" not concede the point that it is OK to expect the team to improve or at least "stay the same" and not regress from game to game like they have done for the last three games? Should we not expect their special teams play to at least continue to get better and not worse as the season progresses?

Lol it's amazing how much a team "regresses" when they play 3 top ten teams in a row.

 

[sjt18]

Lol it's amazing how much a team "regresses" when they play 3 top ten teams in a row.

It is even more amazing that someone can deny they have regressed in spite of being beaten like FCS homecoming fodder by those 3 teams.

 

[volfan411]

I feel better about Jones than Dooley. I don't about Jancek vs Wilcox. I am neutral Jake vs Chaney. I'm not sure I would not trade someone off this staff to bring Sirmon, Thompson, or Baggett back. I always thought Hinshaw was a pretty solid coach.

Dooley's first staff wasn't terrible. The were actually probably too good for him.

I would trade this entire definsive staff for the one Wilcox had. I really liked Sirmon and Thompson and believe they were going to get it done in the SEC if they had been given the time. I have faith that Jancek is going to get it done and if he does not then his staff has recruited above my expectations for them.

I liked Hindshaw and Baggett as well but I am still neutral on this staff other than I do not like the o-line underacheiving the way I think they have.

 

[HuntsVol_AL]

Some useful links:
How to Keep from Crying: 7 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow
4 Ways to Stop Yourself from Crying - wikiHow

 

[KBVol]

I don't need to support that assertion. Coach Jones supports it because he talks a lot about it all the time- that special teams is about heart. It is 11 guys who want to earn more playing time and trying to show what they can do. Western Carolina, Arkansas State and Florida Atlantic played better on special teams against Auburn than we did. Did they have more talent than us or just better coaching?

The team has been very good on special teams with the exception of all of the Auburn game and some of the Oregon game. So the kids on Teams had heart and bought into the coaching staff all year long with the exception of those 2 games?

 

[VFL34]

comparing Auburn versus Tennessee is comparing apples to oranges. Would you "others" not concede the point that it is OK to expect the team to improve or at least "stay the same" and not regress from game to game like they have done for the last three games? Should we not expect their special teams play to at least continue to get better and not worse as the season progresses?

Y'all are fans and haven't played a lick of major football. It's easy to critique from your couch and beer belly. But non of y'all don't know a d*mn thing about the game until you have suited up. Enough with the illiterate posts. It's really embarassing. Vol football will be back. A team can't change in one year after having 4 coaches in 5 years. Not one program has gone through the turmoil big orange has. Get with them or get left bruh bruhs. Vfl

 

[VFL34]

The significance of having a recruiting class missing and the players recruited for dooleys style of play is a huge reason why we will struggle until that era has passed. I don't post often because of how yall fans don't understand a thing about football

 

[Sandvol]

Y'all are fans and haven't played a lick of major football. It's easy to critique from your couch and beer belly. But non of y'all don't know a d*mn thing about the game until you have suited up. Enough with the illiterate posts. It's really embarassing. Vol football will be back. A team can't change in one year after having 4 coaches in 5 years. Not one program has gone through the turmoil big orange has. Get with them or get left bruh bruhs. Vfl

Illiterate? That's the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Sandvol]

The team has been very good on special teams with the exception of all of the Auburn game and some of the Oregon game. So the kids on Teams had heart and bought into the coaching staff all year long with the exception of those 2 games?

"with the exception of all of the Auburn game"......big exception.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

It is even more amazing that someone can deny they have regressed in spite of being beaten like FCS homecoming fodder by those 3 teams.

Other than the outcome of the last three games, what sort of evidence do you offer to suggest that they have "regressed?"

I'm not being argumentative for simply for its sake, I am serious. The outcome of the game is not really a fair measure. It seems to me just as likely the reason for the outcome is that those three teams happen be to three of the top eight teams in the BCS rankings.

In fact, it seems likely that if NO OTHER elements of the games played to date this season were changed (scores, stats, etc) but they were re-arranged in sequence, there'd be no argument for "regression." That is, if you sprinkled the last three - even with the exact same results - in between the others, how would the season look?

So, how do you ignore the grind of the season, the freshman QB and the fact that the last three have been against three of the best four teams we've played this year, and simply jump to the "we're regressing" argument? Is it not at least possible that those factors may be contributing the outcomes as well?

We'll know soon enough. If they come out and play really well at Vandy, I'll be inclined to think my arguments have merit. If they crap the bed, I'll be obliged to to tip my hat to yours.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Other than the outcome of the last three games, what sort of evidence do you offer to suggest that they have "regressed?"

I'm not being argumentative for simply for its sake, I am serious. The outcome of the game is not really a fair measure. It seems to me just as likely the reason for the outcome is that those three teams happen be to three of the top eight teams in the BCS rankings.

In fact, it seems likely that if NO OTHER elements of the games played to date this season were changed (scores, stats, etc) but they were re-arranged in sequence, there'd be no argument for "regression." That is, if you sprinkled the last three - even with the exact same results - in between the others, how would the season look?

So, how do you ignore the grind of the season, the freshman QB and the fact that the last three have been against three of the best four teams we've played this year, and simply jump to the "we're regressing" argument? Is it not at least possible that those factors may be contributing the outcomes as well?

We'll know soon enough. If they come out and play really well at Vandy, I'll be inclined to think my arguments have merit. If they crap the bed, I'll be obliged to to tip my hat to yours.

Combine that with this thought that I brought up earlier:

Except for Alabama, our worst recent losses have come against Auburn and MO-- both of which run similar spread/option/rushing offenses. Our D gave up lots of yards and points.

What did we look like against the spread/option/rushing offense we faced at the beginning of the year (Oregon)? Pretty much the same, or worse, than we looked against AU and MO.

So, are we looking at regression, or just similar results against the type of offense that our defensive talent doesn't currently match up well against?

 

[sjt18]

Other than the outcome of the last three games, what sort of evidence do you offer to suggest that they have "regressed?"

So what you are asking is that other than starting out poorly, appearing to improve for awhile, then playing VERY poorly in the last 3 games straight... what evidence do I have?

I guess none. But I do not see any need for any more evidence than that. Connor Shaw is a better QB than Mauk. He's a better passer and runner. He's not quite as great running as Auburn's QB but is a much better passer. UT's D throttled him. From that point forward... they've been abused and especially by QB's that can run a little. That's regression... and it IS a coaching issue.

I'm not being argumentative for simply for its sake, I am serious. The outcome of the game is not really a fair measure. It seems to me just as likely the reason for the outcome is that those three teams happen be to three of the top eight teams in the BCS rankings.

No. Not the outcome itself... but the outcome relative to how competitive they were when compared to other opponents those teams have beaten. Again, losing badly to just one of them... OK... understandable. You could even make a case that had they come back with a solid effort in either of the last two games that it would have indicated good coaching.

They have been dominated statistically and competitively. They have repeated the same mistakes. They have been out of position constantly. The playcalling/gameplanning/scheming has been mediocre or worse. Through all of this... the same guys are starting and no "big" changes have occurred.

In fact, it seems likely that if NO OTHER elements of the games played to date this season were changed (scores, stats, etc) but they were re-arranged in sequence, there'd be no argument for "regression."

You do understand what regression means, right? It means a decline progressively OVER a specific sequence.

If you want to believe that UT should have been that uncompetitive against Auburn and MU then I guess that's your business. Bama is a great team that plays in an intimidating environment.

So, how do you ignore the grind of the season, the freshman QB and the fact that the last three have been against three of the best four teams we've played this year, and simply jump to the "we're regressing" argument? Is it not at least possible that those factors may be contributing the outcomes as well?

Contributing? More than likely. They hurt every team this time of year unless they have the depth of Bama or "luck" of Mizzou this year.

Coaches manage "the grind" every year... and if they don't... they fade against those who do... sort of like what we're seeing.

We'll know soon enough. If they come out and play really well at Vandy, I'll be inclined to think my arguments have merit. If they crap the bed, I'll be obliged to to tip my hat to yours.

Jancek can find some but not complete redemption if they play better. If he holds them to under 10 pts... then I'll say either I was premature or he's done some fine coaching.

 

[sjt18]

Combine that with this thought that I brought up earlier:

Except for Alabama, our worst recent losses have come against Auburn and MO-- both of which run similar spread/option/rushing offenses. Our D gave up lots of yards and points.

What did we look like against the spread/option/rushing offense we faced at the beginning of the year (Oregon)? Pretty much the same, or worse, than we looked against AU and MO.

So, are we looking at regression, or just similar results against the type of offense that our defensive talent doesn't currently match up well against?

Did you just seriously try to put Mizzou and Aub on the same level as Oregon offensively?

FWIW, I don't think they coached the Oregon game very well either. Of course that's just my thoughts on the highest point total allowed by UT in 100 years. I'm sure someone will tell me it is an overreaction.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Did you just seriously try to put Mizzou and Aub on the same level as Oregon offensively?

FWIW, I don't think they coached the Oregon game very well either. Of course that's just my thoughts on the highest point total allowed by UT in 100 years. I'm sure someone will tell me it is an overreaction.

You are missing the entire point. This defense can not defend the spread option offenses. Simple as that. If you factor in the speed factor, it is a recipe for disaster. You can either continue to pine over Dooley or move on and get behind this ENTIRE coaching staff. The season is not over yet, we have two games left against two teams that DO NOT run the spread option.

Anyone can see that UT does not have the athletes to defend that type of offense.

And before YOU bring up Stanford, those kids have been in that system for how many years?

 

[GAVol]

I don't care how positive you are, there's no way you could've watched the past month and not come away wondering what has happened on defense since the moment we walked off the field against South Carolina. Everybody understands lack of depth, bad match ups, being slow and level of competition, but there have been times when we're not even putting up any resistance. Giving up long drives is one thing. Constantly busting and whiffing on tackles on 3 play drives is another.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

I don't care how positive you are, there's no way you could've watched the past month and not come away wondering what has happened on defense a nice the moment we walked off the field against South Carolina. Everybody understands lack of depth, bad match ups and level of competition, but there have been times when we're not even putting up any resistance. Giving up long drives is one thing. Constantly busting and whiffing on tackles is another.

That is what happens when you are tired. When you are tired, the first thing that happens is that you don't use proper technique. The missed tackles are not an indictment against the coaching staff. If the players are worn down, what is the coaching staff to do.

Some of the UT fans have unrealistic expectations. The stated goal before the season was to make it to a bowl game. As far as I see it, we are still on track for that. The losses were bad, but they still only counted as one loss. If we would've lost by 1 or 100 it is still one loss. The win loss column doesn't care about how many points you lose by. It is not like we lost to any opponents that were not ranked. We beat a ranked opponent and all of our other losses are to ranked (better) teams.

As CBJ would say, focus on the end result and the process.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

. . . You do understand what regression means, right? It means a decline progressively OVER a specific sequence. . . .

Actually that is not what it means.

In statistical analysis, the word is used in a variety of ways, but most - in some way - address sampling or testing and the tendency of data to fall toward a mean as the sample size or test results grow.

In science and more generally, it is defined as "returning to a previous state." It would be the antonym of progression.

With that in mind, is the team "returning to a previous state?" That is, did they show some signs of improvement and have then "lost" those improvements? More generally, are they playing more poorly than earlier in the year?

Perhaps, but I think it is equally likely that the last three games have simply exposed the team in ways that many of the other games did not.