Ok let's say we concede the fact that

[volfan411]

Chavis was known for making S's> LB's, LB's> DE's, and DE's> DT's in his best years at UT.

Sapp was never going to be anything but a LB.

And I agree and maybe with better coaching, there I said it, they would be better suited to play LB but as far as LB's go Sapp and Brewer would only be scout team players on some of Chavis's defenses.

 

[daj2576]

He had one really great year there with Cam. With the same basic players he leaves and they only win 3 games with zero conference wins. The next year he comes back they are one win away from an SECw championship.

Yes, I'm asking how that happens playing in the SECw, with a converted DB playing QB, and with a defense that is on par with UTs.

It's talent. Loads of recruited talent. Look at their last four years. What you are referring to is how some coaches (Chizik/Dooley/Kiff) can take talent and make it look really bad.

Those kind of coaches are in the minority, most teams perform based on talent. In fact with the talent Auburn has recruited they are under-performing by one game (just like us).

Don't believe what you are being sold by the media based off of what you saw last year out of Auburn. From a real talent stand point they are second in the west and could win the east outright (as long as Muschamp stays at UF it won't matter how much talent Florida has).

Your argument is common but is just media drivel (with all due respect).

 

[millst987]

Nm

 

[jasonvol18]

I thought the offense hurt us as much against MO as they have any game this year. They had chances to put points on the board and help the defense out but did not and that is just the way it goes sometimes.

Definitely. I know part of it was a TR FR making his first start but the other players needed to help him out and they didnt. To me, overall that was the least overall effort I have seen from UT this year as far as from start to finish. The offense had nemerous chances for pts but dropped TD passes, penalties and turnovers killed so many good drives. Was no excuse to just score 3 pts. Truthfully Mizzou could have beaten us alot worse if they had wanted to keep their foot on the pedal. Dobbs and his teammates need to learn how to finish drives. So many times the last few weeks we have 1st and 10I around the 25 and have false starts or holding and that completed changes the playcalling then next thing you know you got 3rd and long then you have to pass and turnovers or sacks seemed to follow or if lucky we got a FG. Our D just isnt good enough to settle for FG's every drive. We got no TD's the second half of SC, got 1 TD against Ala, none against Mizzou and against AU the offense got 1 TD and the D got one. So the last 14 Qtrs we have 2 offensive TD's and 7 FG's. That definitely wont win many games and we will lose Sat if we have to settle for FG's.

 

[fade route]

I was hoping for 7 or 8 wins (if you count the bowl game).

However, I was expecting at least 6 wins, but it looks like we'll only get 5. That's because I don't expect to beat Vandy, who I think is a little bit better team. I do expect to beat Kensucky. Even beating Kensucky is not a given however, considering the way we are playing. Therefore, we we could wind up 4-8, with the most losses in one season in our entire history. Yet even if we do, the majority of our idiot fan base will be there to lay down the excuses.

And the rest of the morons will be calling for CBJ to be fired.

 

[PanicVol]

Doesn't always work that way. Look at Saban's first year at Ala. They went 7-6. And he had better talent than Jones has. Takes guys buying into what your preaching, weeding out the guys who don't want to change, breaking bad habits that the previous staff allowed to develop. I guarantee if Saban could only win 7 with what he had at Ala his gfirst yesr, thenhe would have been lucky to win 6-7 this year at UT with the schedule and players on D we have.

I dont think anyone is talking wins or losses. Its the fact that we dont look remotely competetive whereas teams with equal or less talent have against similar opponents.

And Saban waxed our ass that year and was competetive in every single game.

 

[fade route]

It's the truth though. The guys that can win with inferior talent are few and far between. At the very least, the coaches that pull it off usually have Seniors at key positions.

Amazing how few people get this concept.

 

[FEARinSEC]

no doubt that he could have found someone better.

doubtful that he could have hired anyone better, given the salary cap restrictions administered by cheek et al.

Not to mention trying to put a coaching staff together so they could close out a recruiting class. What would have happened to defensive recruits if we didn't have a DC?

 

[daj2576]

Doesn't always work that way. Look at Saban's first year at Ala. They went 7-6. And he had better talent than Jones has. Takes guys buying into what your preaching, weeding out the guys who don't want to change, breaking bad habits that the previous staff allowed to develop. I guarantee if Saban could only win 7 with what he had at Ala his gfirst yesr, thenhe would have been lucky to win 6-7 this year at UT with the schedule and players on D we have.

They (Bama) went 6-6 regular season (same as the previous year) and lost the last four games including a loss to La-wherever that is far more embarrassing than any blow out loss to a superior opponent. Don't forget that Shula went 6-6 the year before during the regular season. The only difference is that Shula lost a bowl game and Saban won, right?

And no. Coaches aren't wizards, they rise or fall typically by talent. There are exceptions to be sure, but the rule is talent=wins.(see: Saban)

 

[daj2576]

I dont think anyone is talking wins or losses. Its the fact that we dont look remotely competetive whereas teams with equal or less talent have against similar opponents.

And Saban waxed our ass that year and was competetive in every single game.

Is it really good to be competitive in a loss to La-Monroe?

 

[jasonvol18]

If it were only one game then I'm buying that and moving on. When you string 3 together end to end... it becomes almost impossible to reasonably conclude that.

I don't blame the O or Dobbs for the D's performance at MU. They prevented the win... they didn't make the run D horrible.

True, and Mizzou really could have made it much worse if they really wanted to. 2 things that killed momentum that game was Smith's dropped TDfeedQB off each other for mome pass and the fumble right before halftime. Both sides of the ball teams feed off momentum from each other but if neither are doing anything it gets what we have had the last few weeks. They fed off each other in the GA and SC games and haven't since. Its like the offense knows they need to be perfect and score every time because the D can't stop anyone and the D thinks they have to be perfect because the offenses doesnt score much, doesnt get those TD drives that gains serious momentum and constantly settles for Field Goals when there are drives.

 

[PanicVol]

Is it really good to be competitive in a loss to La-Monroe?

I see your point. But Saban had already won an NC so he had a litle bit of wiggle room there. We dont really know what we have yet. We're just waiting for about 30 freshman in hopes instantly make us better. Which they may. Who knows?

 

[jasonvol18]

I dont think anyone is talking wins or losses. Its the fact that we dont look remotely competetive whereas teams with equal or less talent have against similar opponents.

And Saban waxed our ass that year and was competetive in every single game.

True but he also had talent, they went undefeated the next yr but lost to UF in the SEC game then to Utah. So the talent was far superior. Saban also lost to La Monroe that first year and lost to UAB while at LSU. I did expect us to be more compettive in most games this yr but don't think its all on the staff. I could be way off and wrong. On Jancek I really dont know alot about him as a whole. He may or may not be the answer at DC. But also a Coach getting fired doesnt always mean he sux. So many times Head Coach's have to save their a$$es and instead of them getting fired a Assistant Coach becomes the fall guy. I hope Jancek iis the guy but if not he won't be here long.

 

[sjt18]

Doesn't always work that way. Look at Saban's first year at Ala.

Good Lord... do you guys NEVER get tired of this straw man?

They went 7-6. And he had better talent than Jones has.

That's debatable.... and their record was still an improvement over the year before.

They improved statistically and... did not lose a game by more than 7 points the whole season. They also beat the snot out of a UT team that won the East.

Takes guys buying into what your preaching, weeding out the guys who don't want to change, breaking bad habits that the previous staff allowed to develop.

That was definitely true of Saban. He had guys breaking the law and resisting his program... and still won 7 games. According to Jones, he has never had a team so willingly and fully buy into his program.

I guarantee if Saban could only win 7 with what he had at Ala his gfirst yesr, thenhe would have been lucky to win 6-7 this year at UT with the schedule and players on D we have.

You are all but certainly wrong. A Saban coached D would not be getting run over like this. A Saban coached OL with this much talent would dominate opponents in the run game.

 

[sjt18]

Is it really good to be competitive in a loss to La-Monroe?

They were competitive in all of their losses... and spanked a UT team that won the East. I could have lived with something similar this year....

 

[illvol]

Is it possible that there are reasons other than coaching for the "decline"? Such as depth?
It's obvious that production has fallen off but if it was there before the last three games did the kids unlearn what was taught? Did the coaches suddenly stop coaching? No.

Another explanation and a very logical one is that the team is exhausted both mentally and physically because of a lack of depth. I have seen somewhere that we only have 65 or 67 scholarship players due to players leaving , being dismissed, academically ineligible, etc, over the last three years as a result of the coaching changes instead of the 85 on other teams. Because of that would our starters have played more reps than other teams players? Couple that with the incredibly brutal, physical schedule we have had and it might suggest our players bodies may be broken and exhausted, and no matter how well you're coached you won't perform at the speed of someone more rested.

 

[deaconkane]

comparing Auburn versus Tennessee is comparing apples to oranges. Would you "others" not concede the point that it is OK to expect the team to improve or at least "stay the same" and not regress from game to game like they have done for the last three games? Should we not expect their special teams play to at least continue to get better and not worse as the season progresses?

We were not ready for the toughest 3 games in the country, in a row. Freshmen qb and the brutal mental haul on our players from the last 3 years. Ut as a organization has beaten these guys down continuously since they have been here. Its actually embarassing as a lifelong fan for what these young men has been through. Jmo.

 

[jasonvol18]

They (Bama) went 6-6 regular season (same as the previous year) and lost the last four games including a loss to La-wherever that is far more embarrassing than any blow out loss to a superior opponent. Don't forget that Shula went 6-6 the year before during the regular season. The only difference is that Shula lost a bowl game and Saban won, right?

And no. Coaches aren't wizards, they rise or fall typically by talent. There are exceptions to be sure, but the rule is talent=wins.(see: Saban)

Exactly, and if memory serves me right they almost lost the bowl but not positive about that. Saban never did anything spectacular at Mich St and had several decent to mediocre years at LSU. He is just loaded down with some much talent that Dooley and Kiffin could prob with 8-10 with what they have on their roster. Just amazes me how he is doing what he has at Ala but wasnt consistently doing it at LSU. Not like their is much recruiting difference to Ala than at LSU. Surely it isnt all the lawyer boosters and runners that Ala has had for decades.

 

[Sandvol]

Is it possible that there are reasons other than coaching for the "decline"? Such as depth?
It's obvious that production has fallen off but if it was there before the last three games did the kids unlearn what was taught? Did the coaches suddenly stop coaching? No.

Another explanation and a very logical one is that the team is exhausted both mentally and physically because of a lack of depth. I have seen somewhere that we only have 65 or 67 scholarship players due to players leaving , being dismissed, academically ineligible, etc, over the last three years as a result of the coaching changes instead of the 85 on other teams. Because of that would our starters have played more reps than other teams players? Couple that with the incredibly brutal, physical schedule we have had and it might suggest our players bodies may be broken and exhausted, and no matter how well you're coached you won't perform at the speed of someone more rested.

No, I think we're above 80. You must be thinking of USC. Of course they're kicking ass now that Bozo is gone.

 

[FEARinSEC]

Is it possible that there are reasons other than coaching for the "decline"? Such as depth?
It's obvious that production has fallen off but if it was there before the last three games did the kids unlearn what was taught? Did the coaches suddenly stop coaching? No.

Another explanation and a very logical one is that the team is exhausted both mentally and physically because of a lack of depth. I have seen somewhere that we only have 65 or 67 scholarship players due to players leaving , being dismissed, academically ineligible, etc, over the last three years as a result of the coaching changes instead of the 85 on other teams. Because of that would our starters have played more reps than other teams players? Couple that with the incredibly brutal, physical schedule we have had and it might suggest our players bodies may be broken and exhausted, and no matter how well you're coached you won't perform at the speed of someone more rested.

I'm sure someone will come along and tell you exactly why you are wrong with all of your points.

I'm not that guy....

 

[jimallvol]

I think we are where everybody thought we would be as of right now. We won the gms we were suppose to and even beat a ranked SEC tm. If we can finish out with 2 more wins and maybe a possible bowl win then Butch and his staff has done one hell of a job in my book.

 

[tm3]

Is it possible that there are reasons other than coaching for the "decline"? Such as depth?
It's obvious that production has fallen off but if it was there before the last three games did the kids unlearn what was taught? Did the coaches suddenly stop coaching? No.

Another explanation and a very logical one is that the team is exhausted both mentally and physically because of a lack of depth. I have seen somewhere that we only have 65 or 67 scholarship players due to players leaving , being dismissed, academically ineligible, etc, over the last three years as a result of the coaching changes instead of the 85 on other teams. Because of that would our starters have played more reps than other teams players? Couple that with the incredibly brutal, physical schedule we have had and it might suggest our players bodies may be broken and exhausted, and no matter how well you're coached you won't perform at the speed of someone more rested.

One of the radio shows reported that CBJ has 82.

FWIW, CDD had 65 his first year("depth" not "speed" was the 2010 mantra), and 10 games in had the same record as CBJ 4 and 6.

 

[jkleno]

I think we are where everybody thought we would be as of right now. We won the gms we were suppose to and even beat a ranked SEC tm. If we can finish out with 2 more wins and maybe a possible bowl win then Butch and his staff has done one hell of a job in my book.

Yep.

 

[jasonvol18]

Good Lord... do you guys NEVER get tired of this straw man?

That's debatable.... and their record was still an improvement over the year before.

They improved statistically and... did not lose a game by more than 7 points the whole season. They also beat the snot out of a UT team that won the East.

That was definitely true of Saban. He had guys breaking the law and resisting his program... and still won 7 games. According to Jones, he has never had a team so willingly and fully buy into his program.



You are all but certainly wrong. A Saban coached D would not be getting run over like this. A Saban coached OL with this much talent would dominate opponents in the run game.

I hate Saban with a passion. They had the same record as the year before, Saban just won his bowl. No way with the lack of depth, talent and speed that he could get more than 7have wins. The OL part may be true but hee would also be running a much more traditional offense. The OLine has struggled but offensive line guys are also recruited to play in a certain offense. This really is a totally different offense compared to any others that have been here. This line has been great pass blockers while here but not so much run blocking. Which makes me wonder about their draft stock. Not sure if the new staff is basically having to reteach or what. But the run game has definitely improved. But back to Saban he had much better talent even early at LSU and still had 2 out of his 5 yrs there he won 8 games twice and won ANC of course. Also lost to UAB there. Yes he did beat us that yr and they had players suspended.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh, Waaaaaaaaaahhhhh !!!

Wow, so many excuses in one post that I lost count. However, no amount of excuses is sufficient to account for the fact that we have shown no improvement at all over the Doofus regime. Even if the W-L record was the same, we should at least be holding this coaching staff accountable for not showing at least some competitive improvement. Plus, we have regressed in all phases of the game as the year has gone on. That is unacceptable. Butch and this so called "best staff in America", needed to prove that they were capable of getting these players to overachieve at least a little bit, but it didn't happen. There is no excuse for it, PERIOD.

Im still waiting to hear how beating a ranked team for the first time in 4 years isnt showing improvement.