Palin quit because ....

Palin quit because ....

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#176
#176
rjd970 said:
Without any substantial proof in the form of statements Obama has made or papers he has written, you're using circular logic here.

He attended because he agreed with the message, and he agreed with the message because he attended?
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He defended Wright tooth and nail. Only when Wright became a political liability, did Obama disavow him and his racist message.
 
#177
#177
lawgator1 said:
Obama said he denounced a lot of what Wright has said.

The difference I see is that Obama did the right thing whilst Palin apologists like yourselves continue to scramble to find ways to worm out of the fact that Palin is herself a religious nut who buys into all of the latest and greatest speaking in tongues, anti-Catholic, demons are all around us, witchcraft goes on all the time garbage that her chuirch spews out to keep people afraid out of their minds and therefore in the church.

Come to think of it, as simple minded as she is, its really not remarkable that she has remained silent on the criticisms of the church whackiness she has been a part of and witness to. That's because she either buys into it or doesn't understand it. Take your pick.
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obama didn't denounce what wright said until it almost cost him the election. IM SURE palin would have done exactly the same thing if people actually gave a crap about it (which they didn't).

And how the hell am i a palin apologist? i defy you to find a single positive post i have made about palin.
 
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#178
#178
lawgator1 said:
The difference I see is that Obama did the right thing whilst Palin apologists like yourselves continue to scramble to find ways to worm out of the fact that Palin is herself a religious nut who buys into all of the latest and greatest speaking in tongues, anti-Catholic, demons are all around us, witchcraft goes on all the time garbage that her chuirch spews out to keep people afraid out of their minds and therefore in the church.
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There is no difference.
 
#179
#179
rjd970 said:
Maybe...but you are deluding yourself if you think the religious street cred she brought to the ticket didn't play dividends with the religious right.

Different than a religious platform and I never indicated the religious right didn't like her.

You're making it sound like she was the best VP candidate out there, regardless of her religious beliefs.

Woah there Skippy - I said nothing about her being the best candidate. I think she sucked. I'm simply saying she didn't run on a religious platform.

For instance, I thought Romney was more qualified than her on multiple levels. He had executive and private sector experience. He wanted energy independence, and he was a Washington "outsider". But he wore magic underwear, ya know?

Romney was/is more qualified - no doubt about it.

Bush never ran on a religious platform either, but he won well over 80% of the evangelical vote. Her platform may not have been specifically religious, but her appeal absolutely was.
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Two different things. I'm explaining why it was not a religious platform.

Obama received a ton of religious vote too but didn't run on a religious platform.
 
#182
#182
volinbham said:
If this is the criteria then Obama ran on a union and welfare platform.
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Sure.

Now would you say that although it was never explicitely stated by Obama, his platform was nonetheless a shrill appeal to unions and social welfare?
 
#183
#183
SavageOrangeJug said:
He defended Wright tooth and nail. Only when Wright became a political liability, did Obama disavow him and his racist message.
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Again, without substantial proof of him publicly stating he agreed with the controversial comments specifically, you have little ground to stand on here. Like somebody else said on here, we may have a crazy uncle or whatever that says some wacky things, but that doesn't mean we don't seek his advice on other matters, or didn't love him since childhood.

Relating the beliefs of what Wright said in his sermons with Obama's personal beliefs are a stretch if the only thing you're going on is his attendence at church and personal relationship with the reverend.
 
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#184
#184
rjd970 said:
Sure.

Now would you say that although it was never explicitely stated by Obama, his platform was nonetheless a shrill appeal to unions and social welfare?
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Actually in his case what he said as his platform was closer to this than what Palin said as her platform being closer to a religious platform.
 
#185
#185
rjd970 said:
Again, without substantial proof of him publicly stating he agreed with the controversial comments specifically, you have little ground to stand on here. Like somebody else said on here, we may have a crazy uncle or whatever that says some wacky things, but that doesn't mean we don't seek his advice on other matters, or didn't love him since childhood.

Relating the beliefs of what Wright said in his sermons with Obama's personal beliefs are a stretch if the only thing you're going on is his attendence at church and personal relationship with the reverend.
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I'll use twenty years, a vigorous defense of Wright by Obama, and a little common sense as my proof.

You can believe Obama is wholesome if you want. I choose to look at the facts, and draw my own conclusions. Obama agreed with the message.
 
#186
#186
SavageOrangeJug said:
I'll use twenty years, a vigorous defense of Wright by Obama, and a little common sense as my proof.

You can believe Obama is wholesome if you want. I choose to look at the facts, and draw my own conclusions. Obama agreed with the message.
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I question the common sense part if all you are using is church attendance (regardless of time) and a defense of the man (not the comments). In any event, those facts do nothing to substantiate your claim.
 
#187
#187
You know, as I sit here thinking about this, it occurs ot me that I have never once heard a substantive comment from Palin about any policy issue. She has never, to my knowledge, proposed a new policy or law at the federal level to deal with an issue, she has never discussed tax policy or economics in any significant manner. The more and more I think about it, all she did when she got put on the ticket was act as the attack dog. And when asked during interviews about her views on various issues, she fumbled almost every question and answer. Many times she couldn't even comprehend the question or was utterly unaware of the subject matter.

What a disaster she was for McCain and what an abject failure she would have been as anything other than the retired Governor of Alaska.
 
#188
#188
lawgator1 said:
You know, as I sit here thinking about this, it occurs ot me that I have never once heard a substantive comment from Palin about any policy issue. She has never, to my knowledge, proposed a new policy or law at the federal level to deal with an issue, she has never discussed tax policy or economics in any significant manner. The more and more I think about it, all she did when she got put on the ticket was act as the attack dog. And when asked during interviews about her views on various issues, she fumbled almost every question and answer. Many times she couldn't even comprehend the question or was utterly unaware of the subject matter.

What a disaster she was for McCain and what an abject failure she would have been as anything other than the retired Governor of Alaska.
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She talked repeatedly and relatively knowledgeably about energy policy.
 
#189
#189
volinbham said:
Actually in his case what he said as his platform was closer to this than what Palin said as her platform being closer to a religious platform.
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As far as what they actually said, I would say Obama's statements about unions and social welfare match pretty well with what Palin said about her faith...both in scope and frequency.

Both had unstated platforms that appealed to their political bases moreso than their actual stated platforms.
 
#191
#191
rjd970 said:
I question the common sense part if all you are using is church attendance (regardless of time) and a defense of the man (not the comments). In any event, those facts do nothing to substantiate your claim.
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OK! I'll put it in simple terms.

Only a complete freakin' moron would listen for twenty years, defend the messenger vigorously, and jeopardize a viable presidential campaign, if they didn't agree with the message.
 
#192
#192
rjd970 said:
As far as what they actually said, I would say Obama's statements about unions and social welfare match pretty well with what Palin said about her faith...both in scope and frequency.

Both had unstated platforms that appealed to their political bases moreso than their actual stated platforms.
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I disagree - Obama's statements about what he wanted to do were much more closely tied to a union/welfare set of policies.

I rarely remember Palin discussing religion or religious policy. Most of her specific policy discussions were about 1) energy 2) outsider 3) maverick 4) family. It is only the last one that can be tangibly connected to religion in any way.

Her being religious doesn't mean she had a religious platform.

Comparatively, Obama's policies were definitely tied to notions of social justice and equity. The connection is more direct with Obama.

I'd say Palin's platform and policies were about as religious on their face as were Obama's.
 
#193
#193
rjd970 said:
When?
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In her speeches - you know when you state your platform?

She knew more about oil and natural gas than Obama ever will. Also, while she advocated increasing use of natural gas in particular (she's not alone here) she advocated for alternative energy too.

Bottomline, she had a more broadbased energy source agenda than Obama did.
 
#194
#194
SavageOrangeJug said:
OK! I'll put it in simple terms.

Only a complete freakin' moron would listen for twenty years, defend the messenger vigorously, and jeopardize a viable presidential campaign, if they didn't agree with the message.
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My stepdad is Mormon. I have known him for over 20 years. I love him, he is great to us, he is a good man, and I would defend him against any personal attacks. Now because I listened to him teach us about his faith, prayed with him, even went to church with him on occassion growing up...does that mean I am a "freakin' moron" for not believing the crazy nonsense he does?

You seem to have a problem separating the man from the message here.
 
#197
#197
I personally thought she sounded stupid as hell on the Today Show when her response to why we "need" a natural gas pipeline in AK was "because Exxon wants it." The WSJ claims we won't need that pipeline with foreign countries dumping theirs on us at a cheap price. No, that situation won't last forever, but she never clarified why it was truly needed.
 
#198
#198
Hopefully you people will realize that these people are no better than dog dookie and will stop voting pro government at election time!
 
#199
#199
volinbham said:
I disagree - Obama's statements about what he wanted to do were much more closely tied to a union/welfare set of policies.

I rarely remember Palin discussing religion or religious policy. Most of her specific policy discussions were about 1) energy 2) outsider 3) maverick 4) family. It is only the last one that can be tangibly connected to religion in any way.

Her being religious doesn't mean she had a religious platform.

Comparatively, Obama's policies were definitely tied to notions of social justice and equity. The connection is more direct with Obama.

I'd say Palin's platform and policies were about as religious on their face as were Obama's.
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Where did Obama come out and specifically state his policy was to tax people so poor people get richer and rich people get poorer? Where did he specifically come out and say I am going to side with unions at the expense of management? Those were not his stated policies...they were a result of his ideology and governmental beliefs...but they were not specifically stated on his platform.

When Palin comes out and says she doesn't believe in Evolution, or life begins at the very moment of conception...what's the chance she is well versed in the science behind those claims? Is there any doubt they come directly from her religious ideology?

I fundamentally disagree with your post because IMO you are using different criteria to distinguish beliefs and stated platforms between the candidates.

Besides, you even said it yourself, the criteria I am using to highlight the importance religion plays in Palin's platform also applies to Obama and the role his equality/union pandering plays in his platform.
 
#200
#200
lawgator1 said:
What did she say?
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As I recall, she discussed the role of oil and natural gas in particular in moving towards energy independence. She also advocated pursuing alternative energies with as much detail as we heard from Obama.

I believe that many energy experts agree more with her view of energy policy than Obama's. T. Boone is one that comes to mind but there are others.

She absolutely blew on foreign policy but I'd say she was at least on par with Obama and more importantly Biden (since that was her competitor) on energy policy.
 
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