Paris Terror Attack Underway

#852
#852
Per USA Today article, President Obama told those who want to "pop off about ISIS should present a specific plan."

What is he getting a paycheck for?
 
#853
#853
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Because we have always been recognized as a world leader, and a country that was more than willing to fight for and protect our freedoms, and at times the freedoms of others. Obama's presser today made us sound like a middle to lightweight country that is more interested in standing on the sidelines because we're too concerned about spending money or possibly "getting hurt".

Again... jmo... but that is a VERY FAR drop from the image most have of America.
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That is your perception and is not a good reason for doing anything. That kind of reasoning leads history to repeat itself in stupid ways.

What does winning look like? We have these vague opinions that we should "strike back" or "show strength", but what is the end game and how do we accomplish that? More than likely, we just end up in another quagmire that helps bankrupt us and does nothing to settle the Middle East.

But we always do that, so we should do it again, I guess.
 
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#854
#854
hog88 said:
Shouldn't have taken out Saddam either. They are both known quantities and easily contained.
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"Not taking out" and "backing" are 2 completely different things. I agree with leaving him alone, but you said "back" Assad.
 
#855
#855
n_huffhines said:
Wow.

Do you know what Assad was doing to escalate the rebel conflict? You wanna back that guy? How is he different from Saddam?
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It's kind of a bizarre place we've reached in our discourse on Syria, where a guy who has intentionally killed more innocent people than ISIS is now somehow just misunderstood and was right all along.

I think it speaks to our deficiencies of analysis that we, as humans, tend to have to construct everything in black-and-white, good v. evil narratives. That there is no in-between.

Both Assad and ISIS are evil. We can take a stand against ISIS without having to side with that piece of human garbage, like the Russians (who couldn't care less about dictatorial violence and never have had many moral qualms about such violence).
 
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#857
#857
mtt2d said:
Per USA Today article, President Obama told those who want to "pop off about ISIS should present a specific plan."

What is he getting a paycheck for?
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He used the same line he has used several times against his political opponents concerning policy differences.

Something like: " If you do not like my plan, present me with a plan and I will be glad to take a look at it"

It is like any plan his opponents present will look dumb compared to his plan to the American people. Obama is one arrogant dude.
 
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#858
#858
mtt2d said:
Per USA Today article, President Obama told those who want to "pop off about ISIS should present a specific plan."

What is he getting a paycheck for?
Click to expand...

When he was a Senator and running for office he didn't hold himself to the same criteria.
 
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#859
#859
n_huffhines said:
"Not taking out" and "backing" are 2 completely different things. I agree with leaving him alone, but you said "back" Assad.
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Back Assad as in not getting involved and taking sides, nothing more. No "red line" comments, no arming the rebels, let Assad do what he needed to do to quell the revolution.
 
#860
#860
Gramps said:
He used the same line he has used several times against his political opponents concerning policy differences.

Something like: " If you do not like my plan, present me with a plan and I will be glad to take a look at it"

It is like any plan his opponents present will look dumb compared to his plan to the American people. Obama is one arrogant dude.
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It also:

1) implies criticism is not allowed without a complete, detailed alternative

2) is a challenge he knows is impossible since one must be inside to build out the type of comprehensive plan he is asking for

3) implies he came up with the detailed plan he is pursuing.

Basically, it's a cheap, childish shield against criticism. Today's speech showed he is inflexible and thin-skinned.
 
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#862
#862
volinbham said:
It also:

1) implies criticism is not allowed without a complete, detailed alternative

2) is a challenge he knows is impossible since one must be inside to build out the type of comprehensive plan he is asking for

3) implies he came up with the detailed plan he is pursuing.

Basically, it's a cheap, childish shield against criticism. Today's speech showed he is inflexible and thin-skinned.
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Well said .
 
#863
#863
hog88 said:
Back Assad as in not getting involved and taking sides, nothing more. No "red line" comments, no arming the rebels, let Assad do what he needed to do to quell the revolution.
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So you don't want to be involved in the conflict at all?
 
#864
#864
Gramps said:
He used the same line he has used several times against his political opponents concerning policy differences.

Something like: " If you do not like my plan, present me with a plan and I will be glad to take a look at it"

It is like any plan his opponents present will look dumb compared to his plan to the American people. Obama is one arrogant dude.
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That seems to be his go to line. It's his excuse when he's clueless about what to do.
 
#865
#865
Gramps said:
Thw only plan Senator Obama had in Congress was the one to be elected POTUS.
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I remember thinking 6 years ago or so that he sounded like he was still campaigning. Doesn't feel like he ever stopped.
 
#866
#866
n_huffhines said:
That is your perception and is not a good reason for doing anything. That kind of reasoning leads history to repeat itself in stupid ways.

What does winning look like? We have these vague opinions that we should "strike back" or "show strength", but what is the end game and how do we accomplish that? More than likely, we just end up in another quagmire that helps bankrupt us and does nothing to settle the Middle East.

But we always do that, so we should do it again, I guess.
Click to expand...

You're projecting big time huff. There are many ways to take a leadership role without "striking back" to use your term. Regardless, when you are speaking of a potential threat (which ISIS clearly is) you should absolutely convey a message that we are more than willing "to do whatever it takes" to protect our citizens, our allies, and our freedoms. Whether we choose to do anything or not, they need to believe that we are willing to do it. Obama did just the opposite today during a national speech... he made it sound like we were timid.

Again... jmo and I'm really not in the mood to address your BS today. :hi:
 
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#869
#869
I'll say this. I don't know what the right strategy is.

I do know that our current "strategy" (being generous) isn't working. It's clear this President does not want to have significant involvement. On the surface I don't have a problem with that but do have a problem with:

1) empty threats uttered along the way
2) claiming this strategy is designed to ultimately destroy ISIS
3) making 1/2 assed efforts (training rebels) then claiming you didn't want to do it anyway but caved to pressure
4) getting all defensive rather than adjusting
5) repeatedly down selling the threat/capabilities of the enemy.

If he argued to the country why limited involvement is the right thing AND acknowledged that it won't destroy ISIS but we can't/shouldn't then I'd have more respect. Pretending he actively is trying to destroy ISIS and that he is pursuing the best strategy for doing so is clearly BS.

I imagine a Paul or Sanders would be straight with the people about the alignment between goals and strategy. Both might be doing even less than we are now but at least they'd acknowledge the reason.
 
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#870
#870
Gramps said:
He used the same line he has used several times against his political opponents concerning policy differences.

Something like: " If you do not like my plan, present me with a plan and I will be glad to take a look at it"

It is like any plan his opponents present will look dumb compared to his plan to the American people. Obama is one arrogant dude.
Click to expand...

It's like he doesn't understand that he's not running again. He's still campaigning.
 
#871
#871
IBlvNTmWrk said:
You're projecting big time huff. There are many ways to take a leadership role without "striking back" to use your term. Regardless, when you are speaking of a potential threat (which ISIS clearly is) you should absolutely convey a message that we are more than willing "to do whatever it takes" to protect our citizens, our allies, and our freedoms. Whether we choose to do anything or not, they need to believe that we are willing to do it. Obama did just the opposite today during a national speech... he made it sound like we were timid.

Again... jmo and I'm really not in the mood to address your BS today. :hi:
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Lulz. Why do they "need to know this"? They attacked France, our ally, knowing that they are our ally and knowing that we are currently involved. Our involvement is obviously not a deterrent to terrorist activity.
 
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#872
#872
hog88 said:
Too late to put that Genie back in the bottle. My comments were about what we should HAVE done. Now we have no other choice but to be involved.
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So confusing. You just said "back" Assad, clarified that you meant get out of the way, and now you are saying you do want to actually "back" Assad?
 
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