Pearl discussion (split)

[Stoerner Fumbles]

“I never said Pearl was responsible” to not even 2 sentences later “Pearl shares any and all blame for the whatever happened thereafter”

lol.

When you remove important words like “everything” and “shares”, you fundamentally change the meaning of his quote.

 

[cbrown]

Every time the AU-TN matchup rolls around we have the CBP discussion. Many hate him and a word frequently used to describe him on this board is “sleazy.” While I’m not justifying his actions that led to his departure from TN, I think many of us could be viewed unfavorably as human beings if we’re judged solely on the worst thing we’ve done.

I watched the Chris Lofton documentary this week (great watch BTW). It’s always tricky to try to ascertain how genuine a celebrity is by what they present in front of a camera, but what I saw when CBP spoke about CL was a man who cared deeply about his player, and I would guess he cares about all of his players. Is he a showman and a man with flaws? Absolutely, but I think there’s some good mixed in there too. One thing is a certainty . . . the man can coach basketball.

 

[CDB]

The Notion that Pearl was 100000% responsible for the after effects of his time here is a bit absurd. I didn't realize how many Mike Hamilton apologists there were in our fan base considering he was one of the worst athletic directors in the nation this century....

Do people really no remember his about face the night before we had our first round game vs Michigan that basically tanked the player's opportunity that tourney? Sheesh. I can get on board that Pearl deserved to be fired, but until the season was over, he was our coach and deserved all the support for the player's sake going into the tourney. Hamilton's comments the night before sealed the end of the season before the game even tipped off vs Michigan.

I agree about Hamilton. Pearl did his damage, but Hamilton was Chernobyl for the UT athletic program. Our administration at that time was embarrassing.

Makes you appreciate what we have now!

 

[kptvol1452]

Every time the AU-TN matchup rolls around we have the CBP discussion. Many hate him and a word frequently used to describe him on this board is “sleazy.” While I’m not justifying his actions that led to his departure from TN, I think many of us could be viewed unfavorably as human beings if we’re judged solely on the worst thing we’ve done.

I watched the Chris Lofton documentary this week (great watch BTW). It’s always tricky to try to ascertain how genuine a celebrity is by what they present in front of a camera, but what I saw when CBP spoke about CL was a man who cared deeply about his player, and I would guess he cares about all of his players. Is he a showman and a man with flaws? Absolutely, but I think there’s some good mixed in there too. One thing is a certainty . . . the man can coach basketball.

I had no mixed feelings Sat ....I thoroughly enjoyed watching CBP
Thug players beaten by his former school...... GO VOLS!!!!!!

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

“I never said Pearl was responsible” to not even 2 sentences later “Pearl shares any and all blame for the whatever happened thereafter”

lol.

Weak spin or you are grossly obtuse. One more try with less words and more white space...


Pearl shares in the blame...


...but...


...he is not 10000000% responsible for everything that happens...


...after his dumb and selfish decisions


Hope


That


Helps

 

[Delmar]

While I am not a Pearl hater and did enjoy his years here, I do blame him (and the administration) for the mess he left.

However, I didn’t see any big name coaches giving us the time of day after he was let go. The only reason we got Barnes is because Texas screwed up and thought he was past his prime. Big mistake! Barnes has done more for the future of Tennessee basketball than Pearl ever did.

Not sure if Pearl had anything to do with Barnes coming here.

I think we benefited greatly due to timing. We needed a coach and Texas let Rick go at the same time. If Texas hadn’t fired Rick, we would have had someone else.

Timing is everything. Just ask Bama with Nick Saban.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

This is demonstrably false...no sane person would try claim this was a "winning culture" but you've done it multiple times in this thread.

2010: 19-15 (Conf: 8-8) - Pearl's last yr
2011: 19-15 (10-6) - Conzo's 1st yr
2012: 20-13 (11-7)
2013: 24-13 (11-7)
2014: 16-16 (7-11) - Donnie's 1 and done yr

Pearl's last year was 2011, when it all fell apart at midyear. Went to EE in 2010, sort of unexpectedly

 

[VolsSportsFan]

The article says that Barnes “met with Doug Dickey”. The article exaggerates that into TN “tried to hire” Barnes. The job opening never fell to Barnes as a preferred choice. It was Kennedy, Houston, and Hamilton. Leonard would have been the 3rd offer.

This. I have nevr heard that Barnes was ever a serious candidate at Tenneessee until he was actually hired. His name was never mentioned.

Is it possible some initial feelers were put out? Sure I can buy that but that’s a far cry from he was a serious candidate. I’m sure every coaching job especially at bigger schools works like that.

This article is either exaggeration for the sake of the story or at worst flat out revisionism.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I think we benefited greatly due to timing. We needed a coach and Texas let Rick go at the same time. If Texas hadn’t fired Rick, we would have had someone else.

Timing is everything. Just ask Bama with Nick Saban.

This. I remember many of us (myself included) were actually kind of concerned we were settling on Barnes just because of the timing and that he might have been a bit of a kneejerk hire because of his name. On the flip side given the state of UT basketball the fact we would get a name like Rick Barnes was kind of amazing.

 

[Hacksaw]

Huckster is too strong a word, but there is definitely something about his public persona that seems slightly inauthentic. Compare him to someone like Barnes, who seems more like a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I wonder if our grandkids will still be talking about Pearl in 30 years.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

actually yeah, a bit.

Green showed you could consistently bring great talent to Knoxville without doing whacky **** like hiring mr basketball in Kentucky's dad.

Which is what is boils down to. If Barnes owes Pearl gratitude, Pearl owns Green gratitude by the exact same logic.

But methinks this guy is just a Pearl boner and he's trying too hard to tie Pearl to our success now.

 

[DonDiego]

'I think many of us could be viewed unfavorably as human beings if we’re judged solely on the worst thing we’ve done.'

Now, what would make you think what he was accused of by the NCAA is the worst thing he's done?

 

[rdk4121]

I think it's fine to like him as a person and hate the way he runs his program. Auburn is filled with unlikable and downright disrespectful players. While our players weren't quite as bad when he was here, we did have several that robbed a gas station or failed drug tests, etc. Just this year auburn players got in a fight on the team plane.

While Bruce is clearly a good coach, I'll really Rick every day of the week.

 

[Creeker]

Every time the AU-TN matchup rolls around we have the CBP discussion. Many hate him and a word frequently used to describe him on this board is “sleazy.” While I’m not justifying his actions that led to his departure from TN, I think many of us could be viewed unfavorably as human beings if we’re judged solely on the worst thing we’ve done.

I watched the Chris Lofton documentary this week (great watch BTW). It’s always tricky to try to ascertain how genuine a celebrity is by what they present in front of a camera, but what I saw when CBP spoke about CL was a man who cared deeply about his player, and I would guess he cares about all of his players. Is he a showman and a man with flaws? Absolutely, but I think there’s some good mixed in there too. One thing is a certainty . . . the man can coach basketball.

I don’t think it’s that one action that causes people to view him unfavorable though. It’s an aspect, but how he behaves as a coach, the type of players he brings in and more importantly, how he lets many of those players behave and then frequently defends those actions. I don’t have a full opinion on him as I don’t know him personally, but I don’t think it’s only the incident that caused his departure that people take issue with.

 

[Sudden Impact]

I always give them both credit for UT basketball being what it is today. If Barnes was to win a Natty he would owe Pearl a little bit of gratitude.
If Barnes isn't able to get it done, the next coach that comes in and gets it done is going to owe both Barnes and Pearl a ton of gratitude for building a culture of winning here at UT in respect to Basketball.

This is a stretch and a sidebar comment which really has nothing to do with anything. I am sorry but this is just a deflecting comment to chase a hypothetical ghost. Who really cares. Tennessee was on the map in basketball and it had its ups and downs. Each coast creates their own destiny. I guess Barnes could look at Pearl and state thanks for screwing up, the NCAA investigation and creating an opportunity for me to be here. We owe more graditude to Texas for firing him than Pearl.

 

[chuck0303]

Huckster is too strong a word, but there is definitely something about his public persona that seems slightly inauthentic. Compare him to someone like Barnes, who seems more like a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy.

It's one thing to try to motivate your players but his constant yelling at his players is nauseating, and probably ineffective as they just turn him off. He definitely can coach and I like him although I don't condone his previous actions. What a contrast though between Barnes & Pearl--different ends of the spectrum!

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Your linked article said that it was a “running JOKE”. And read the whole sentence. “Across the league”. Georgia and Florida possibly de-emphasized basketball (although Georgia had hired Hugh Durham away from with a Final 4 on his résumé and Florida cheated it’s way into having a decent team in the 1980s with Nirm Sloan. LSU had it rolling. So did Auburn.

"The running joke was that you've got football season, spring football, and then everything else falls behind it, and that basketball is in there somewhere," said Barnes, who has taken teams from four conferences to the NCAA tournament. "That was a mentality that was created by leadership, whether you want to call it the leadership in the conference, the schools or whatever. There just wasn't an emphasis placed on basketball across the league."

I'm not calling BS on Barnes here as I believe he probably did think this then or at least thinks he did, but it's odd to say this then a few years later takes the job at Clemson and then later Texas. I know Clemson is ACC so league wise it was a basketball conference but he went to Clemson which has always been and always will be a football first school, and then he goes to Texas which is a big time football school in a pretty football heavy Big 12. So I again think this part is a bit embellishment for story purposes.

 

[butchna]

I’ve never heard the so called fact that Barnes wanted no part of TN because it and the SEC was too football oriented. I’d like to see a link to something believable. It’s not like Barnes keeps that type of thing a secret.

When Devoe was hired in 1978 the idea to build a new, mega basketball arena was already in play. $25 million was a huge non-football commitment at that time. Mears was still around when one option was considered to build it in the south end of Neyland Stadium as a convertible venue. TN was neck and neck with Bama as the #2 basketball program in the SEC and Mears had just gone 0.500 versus Adolph Rupp and Joe B Hall. The NCAAT wasn’t that big of a deal in the 1970s. Early rounds aren’t even on TV. TN was committed to building up the basketball program at that time.

Then when Devoe had his early success the plans materialized to build the LARGEST ON CAMPUS BASKETBALL FACILITY in the country. It wasn’t going to be bigger than the Carrier Dome which opened in 1980. But the CD wasn’t used exclusively for basketball. TBA was built specifically to be bigger than Rupp Arena. That’s not done without having a commitment to basketball as well as football.

TBA began construction in 1983 under Woodruff and it was completed in 1987 under Dickey.

Dickey neglected basketball in the 1990s, but he attempted to upgrade basketball in 1989 when he fired Devoe. At that time Pat Kennedy was the overwhelming number one target and he flirted with TN but he decided to stay at FL State. Houston was 2-A and Leonard Hamilton was 2-B. Both flew in to Knoxville for interviews. Dickey wanted to hire LH but Lamar Alexander made him hire Houston. TN was going to hire a black head coach if they didn’t land Kennedy. Barnes wasn’t a serious candidate. He had just moved on from George Mason to Providence. He wouldn’t have been an upgrade over Devoe at that time.

After Dickey fired Houston in 1994, the overwhelming first choice was Kevin O’Neill. He had Marquette in the Sweet 16 and it was a given that when he was in the 1994 NCAA Sweet 16 at Thompson-Boling that he was going to be the next UT coach. There really wasn’t a coaching search beyond KO and Barnes was hired at Clemson at that same time. KO was the hottest available candidate and UT easily hired him. Further evidence that TN was taking basketball seriously.

KO battled with Dickey and quit abruptly after 3 years. Then KO proceeded to contact all of the potential replacement candidates to trash Dickey and UT. Jerry Green was way down the list. He was about the 6th, 7th, or 8th choice and was hired in 1997. Barnes had just finished his 3rd year at Clemson and maybe he was one of the coaches that KO contacted urging them to not work for Dickey. If so, he didn’t turn TN down because TN wasn’t serious about basketball. It would have been because Doug Dickey was a prick and would have been a s***ty boss.

Green left in 2001 after 4x NCAATs and 4x 20 win seasons. Barnes had just completed his 3rd year at Texas and it would have been a lateral move at best to leave Texas for Tennessee. Probably a step back. And Texas was clearly a FOOTBALL FIRST school.

Buzz was hired in 2001 and it was a mistake to stick with the North Carolina coaching tree. Peterson was Michael Jordan’s roommate. But I don’t recall MJ ever setting foot in Knoxville to offer support of any kind to TN BB and Buzz.

Dickey left as AD in 2002 snd Mike Hamilton was hired from within in 2003.

The Bruce Pearl hire resembled the KO hire. An overachieving Sweet 16 coach that was the first and only choice. Bruce had baggage but got Grunfeld’s endorsement. Grunfeld was the GM for the Milwaukee Bucks during the first couple of years that Bruce was at UW-Milwaukee. TN was already committed to basketball when BP was hired in 2005.

Bruce left TN’s program as a dumpster inferno. Then he lurked around Knoxville after Cuonzo was hired. Cuonzo was the opposite of Pearl. He had integrity, class, and didn’t promote a circus atmosphere.

The only time that Barnes MIGHT have avoided UT was when KO was trying to burn down UT to get back at Dickey. Several other names did the same. And Barnes was comfortably at Clemson. There was no reason to leave Clemson to come work for Dickey at UT. After KO and after BP were the 2 most toxic periods in TN basketball history and neither was due to a lack of commitment because TN was a football school,

Good stuff! The only disagreement is with the NCAA Tournament not being a “big deal” in the 70’s. By the end of the 50’s, the NIT was no longer a competitor…the Tourney was the ONLY deal.

 

[aWhiteLoftonChism]

I always give them both credit for UT basketball being what it is today. If Barnes was to win a Natty he would owe Pearl a little bit of gratitude.
If Barnes isn't able to get it done, the next coach that comes in and gets it done is going to owe both Barnes and Pearl a ton of gratitude for building a culture of winning here at UT in respect to Basketball.

Barnes wouldn’t owe Pearl squat…
He was only there 6 yrs and had been gone 5 and the program had fallen into mediocrity at best! There were no remnants of Pearls culture at UT when the Deacon arrived. He’s built this up from scratch.

 

[FeelVol]

I know of people that have quit his staff at Auburn because he tries to get them to cover up stuff.

He is a good coach, a good marketer and enjoyable to watch. He is also an unethical POS.

While I agree with your point I also don’t call many people a POS.Unethical ok and as I recall he also tried to get people to lie for him while he was being investigated here.I’m not a hater but didn’t personally care for his showmanship while he was here but I did enjoy the winning.On the other hand i love Coach Barnes and the way he builds his programs from top to bottom.Hope he’s with us a while longer.GBO

 

[CDB]

While I agree with your point I also don’t call many people a POS.Unethical ok and as I recall he also tried to get people to lie for him while he was being investigated here.I’m not a hater but didn’t personally care for his showmanship while he was here but I did enjoy the winning.On the other hand i love Coach Barnes and the way he builds his programs from top to bottom.Hope he’s with us a while longer.GBO

I agree. Thank you for calling me out on it.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Barnes as a person is fundamentally going to show gratitude to everyone in his life, that’s part of his faith and belief system.

But he didn’t inherit any players from Bruce Pearl and my original point was that IF a former coach should be shown gratitude because of their accomplishments while here despite them not directly impacting another coach then Bruce Pearl owes it to Jerry Green.

I loved Bruce during his time here, hell I pulled for Martin right until he left too. But once you’re gone that’s it for me. Bruce being in the SEC still and seemingly becoming more over the top with his antics as well as getting no real punishment for having an active FBI investigation into his program…yeah nowadays he’s ass & I want nothing but disappointment for him on the court.

 

[VolGee4]

“I never said Pearl was responsible” to not even 2 sentences later “Pearl shares any and all blame for the whatever happened thereafter”

lol.

That statement was clear and not contradictory. Let’s break down the English language.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

Don’t think I repeated myself though. You got destroyed. Take your L and go home. Saying it over and over again does not make it a fact.

So destroyed that people have to pretend Barnes actually didn't mean what he said in an interview and that ESPN is just dishonestly making things up for a good story.....