Pelosi visit to Taiwan

[VolStrom]

I agree fully but I am asking an honest question: you think the aussies get involved? I understand Japan would probably love to get involved but in the grand scheme of things I don’t see how we do not get sucked in.

Our government can't resist a good military conflict, and I could almost guarantee that none of the powers I listed would lift a finger to take on China to help Taiwan. We're not being paid to defend the world against communism or terrorists, and frankly I'm sick of us killing our soldiers doing it along with enriching the military industrial complex.

 

[AM64]

We shouldn't have to defend it, that falls to the regions powers like Japan, South Korea and the Aussies.

Considering where the bulk of the worlds chips come from, the question is more can we not afford to defend Taiwan. We've put ourselves in a very awkward position when you consider what we need and where those things are sourced.

 

[VolStrom]

Considering where the bulk of the worlds chips come from, the question is more can we not afford to defend Taiwan. We've put ourselves in a very awkward position when you consider what we need and where those things are sourced.

Sorry, but if China invades Taiwan, don't you think they're going to destroy/disable every one of their chip factories in day one?

 

[sunnyvol79]

If China invades Taiwan we won’t do anything is my prediction we don’t want to risk WW3

 

[el Jeffe]

Dumb question, but what's the defense against anti-ship missiles?

Anti-anti ship missiles and the new lasers the US Navy is putting on their ships.

 

[Orangeburst]

It would be a big problem for any invasion. DDay only had to cross 20 miles of water. And in most of the Pacific fighting we were either completely unopposed on the sea or/and in the air when it came to the actual invasion, or had a stupid high odds in those departments. As well as fighting hugely numerical inferior enemies, fighting far away from their homeland and resupply.

Throw in drones and missiles and the odds favor the defender even more.

To put it in perspective to have a similar strength ratio as DDay the PRC would need at least 750,000 men involved in their landing force alone.

They can knock out everything with precision missile strikes and probably know 90% the location of any resistance. ..this isn't WW2.
They would be bloody as hell..but they would get crushed like a grape.

Comparison of China and Taiwan Military Strengths (2022)

Now the guerrilla campaign would be messy
The D-Day landing force was to go against continental resistance. Frankly, and not being disrespectful..D-Day landings did not have relative high casualties for the total force., just the first ashore.

 

[Orangeburst]

Every CCP sub would be siting around the island as a defensive perimeter for any logistical support, which must be brought from thousands of miles away and months to fully mobilize.
Taiwan has nothing but basically F-16's, older ADF versions at that, but probably upgraded indigenously. Runways would be cratered. The Electrical grid knocked out. Support would have to come in initially against a CCP air umbrella.
Brute force, shipping capability of the CCP, 90 miles away, 1.3B people and the second or first economy in the world on how you want to look at it..

And the last place I would want to be is on a USN carrier. Counter missile tech would have to approach 100% PK or you are disabled, at the least.
Subs and stealth are the way of the future and smaller dispersed nodes of firepower.

JMO..lets hope we never find out.

 

[el Jeffe]

Every CCP sub would be siting around the island as a defensive perimeter for any logistical support, which must be brought from thousands of miles away and months to fully mobilize.
Taiwan has nothing but basically F-16's, older ADF versions at that, but probably upgraded indigenously. Runways would be cratered. The Electrical grid knocked out. Support would have to come in initially against a CCP air umbrella.
Brute force, shipping capability of the CCP, 90 miles away, 1.3B people and the second or first economy in the world on how you want to look at it..

And the last place I would want to be is on a USN carrier. Counter missile tech would have to approach 100% PK or you are disabled, at the least.
Subs and stealth are the way of the future and smaller dispersed nodes of firepower.

JMO..lets hope we never find out.

And every Chicom sub would be shadowed by the USN subs. Stealth has a huge, specific role to play in modern warfare, absolutely. But smaller, dispersed nodes of firepower will never be more effective or valuable as intense, overwhelming concentrated firepower. As for the USN carriers, no the defenses do not need to be nearly 100% effective. The USN carriers operate as one part of a carrier strike group with layers of defensive firepower.

 

[Orangeburst]

And every Chicom sub would be shadowed by the USN subs. Stealth has a huge, specific role to play in modern warfare, absolutely. But smaller, dispersed nodes of firepower will never be more effective or valuable as intense, overwhelming concentrated firepower. As for the USN carriers, no the defenses do not need to be nearly 100% effective. The USN carriers operate as one part of a carrier strike group with layers of defensive firepower.

You take a couple of AB Aegis destroyers against several dozen inbound missiles..there are leakers. and it takes just one to make it through. Your outer perimeter then has holes. You better be at 95% PK with counter battery, which is not even close to real world..and even that will not be good enough. The destroyers aren't battleships and can not even sustain one hit without being OOA. Then after all the salvos have been fired, those VLS cells have to refilled.

As to subs..the USN, althogh very quiet will have to ingress..those CCP subs will be sitting there idle and waiting. This has already been demonstrated with subs against USN by both foreign and adversary mock engagements. Carriers die.

And the towed arrays for destroyers have largely been eliminated.

 

[508mikey]

If China invades Taiwan we won’t do anything is my prediction we don’t want to risk WW3

The US doesn't need anymore 3rd rate clothes and goods

 

[sunnyvol79]

The US doesn't need anymore 3rd rate clothes and goods

I just don’t think our current weak administration will have the balls to back Taiwan and go to war over them. We didn’t fight with Ukraine against Russia so why would anyone think we will back Taiwan and fight for them. We should but we won’t.

 

[lostsheep]

Good grief. This world would have been destroyed many times over if some of you numbnutz ^^ were calling the shots.

 

[AM64]

Sorry, but if China invades Taiwan, don't you think they're going to destroy/disable every one of their chip factories in day one?

Sure, but if they understand they aren't just taking on a smaller opponent alone, don't you think China would be less inclined to strike? Think Russia and smaller neighbors included in NATO. Russia has been taking over smaller countries that aren't part of a pact. We've been warned; whether we have the wherewithal to absorb the lesson and fix our manufacturing problem is questionable. You and I aren't the ones who are going to be most affected, and the younger generations who would be don't seem to be paying attention or learning any lessons from history are the ones who will wish they'd learned from the past.

 

[sunnyvol79]

Sure, but if they understand they aren't just taking on a smaller opponent alone, don't you think China would be less inclined to strike? Think Russia and smaller neighbors included in NATO. Russia has been taking over smaller countries that aren't part of a pact. We've been warned; whether we have the wherewithal to absorb the lesson and fix our manufacturing problem is questionable. You and I aren't the ones who are going to be most affected, and the younger generations who would be don't seem to be paying attention or learning any lessons from history are the ones who will wish they'd learned from the past.

You are absolutely right especially the “woke” PC Millineals

 

[sunnyvol79]

Sure, but if they understand they aren't just taking on a smaller opponent alone, don't you think China would be less inclined to strike? Think Russia and smaller neighbors included in NATO. Russia has been taking over smaller countries that aren't part of a pact. We've been warned; whether we have the wherewithal to absorb the lesson and fix our manufacturing problem is questionable. You and I aren't the ones who are going to be most affected, and the younger generations who would be don't seem to be paying attention or learning any lessons from history are the ones who will wish they'd learned from the past.

You are absolutely right especially the “woke” PC Millineals

 

[Orangeburst]

There is a reason the USG is looking to procure 100+ B-21 bombers..just for the love of the CCP. Debut this year I believe.
The B-2's could reek havoc but being only 20 in number you would not want them on conventional runs in mass against such an event as you would need them ready for nuclear role.
Ironically the best defense in this conflict is maligned F-35B which can be dispersed, but as alluded to any modern aircraft..you better have a crap load of spares.

All this is JMO..but Clancy could of hit this one.

 

[sunnyvol79]

Sure, but if they understand they aren't just taking on a smaller opponent alone, don't you think China would be less inclined to strike? Think Russia and smaller neighbors included in NATO. Russia has been taking over smaller countries that aren't part of a pact. We've been warned; whether we have the wherewithal to absorb the lesson and fix our manufacturing problem is questionable. You and I aren't the ones who are going to be most affected, and the younger generations who would be don't seem to be paying attention or learning any lessons from history are the ones who will wish they'd learned from the past.

You are absolutely right especially the “woke” PC Millineals

 

[Orangeburst]

Good grief. This world would have been destroyed many times over if some of you numbnutz ^^ were calling the shots.

Last I remember under Trump:

Iran got its ass handed to them
NK stopped launching missiles
There was no war in Europe
The CCP not provoking

I am sure the Doomsday Clock is at Midnight is much closer now that your dumbass admin is in charge.
Hell they should start a national doomsday clock for our economy now with this shithead admin

 

[lostsheep]

Last I remember under Trump:

Iran got its ass handed to them
NK stopped launching missiles
There was no war in Europe
The CCP not provoking

I am sure the Doomsday Clock is at Midnight is much closer now that your dumbass admin is in charge.
Hell they should start a national doomsday clock for our economy now with this shithead admin

Haha. What are you even talking about, dude?
Put the bottle down, take a deep breath, re-read my post, and then fill me in on how your response has anything to do with my post.

 

[OHvol40]

You are absolutely right especially the “woke” PC Millineals

So important, you had to say it thrice.

 

[LouderVol]

Considering where the bulk of the worlds chips come from, the question is more can we not afford to defend Taiwan. We've put ourselves in a very awkward position when you consider what we need and where those things are sourced.

That's actually a decent point. You could easily argue those chips are needed for self defense and just economy in general. By attacking Taiwan China would be embargoing our chips, thus according to Ras we would be justified to attack.

 

[Orangeburst]

Haha. What are you even talking about, dude?
Put the bottle down, take a deep breath, re-read my post, and then fill me in on how your response has anything to do with my post.

Fair enough..Forgive me
Rather passive aggressive résponse to the post above with ^^. You could of directly replied. Unless you are DD.

But my point stands..Biden sucks hairy balls

 

[sunnyvol79]

If we had to fight WW 2 again with this soft snowflake woke generation then we would lose. They can’t figure out what’s the difference between man and woman smh

 

[LouderVol]

They can knock out everything with precision missile strikes and probably know 90% the location of any resistance. ..this isn't WW2.
They would be bloody as hell..but they would get crushed like a grape.

Comparison of China and Taiwan Military Strengths (2022)

Now the guerrilla campaign would be messy
The D-Day landing force was to go against continental resistance. Frankly, and not being disrespectful..D-Day landings did not have relative high casualties for the total force., just the first ashore.

And they were fighting under strength divisions undergoing resupply in a foreign country while their general was away on medical leave and the main military was a continent away.

The Chinese are going to be able to hit every bunker, machine gun post, prepared position near the beach? Taking out the communication wont matter a whole lot to fighting that first wave. Without a.successful first wave the follow up get massacred. The difference between your light casualties and 100% casualties depends on the success of the first waves. Really really difficult to pull troops off a beach. Even worse for any airborne.

Even a couple mini-subs off the coast would reap a huge tally from anyone trying to land.

Now if China preemptively struck and Taiwan had no clue it was coming, then yeah Taiwan goes down fast.

 

[VolStrom]

So important, you had to say it thrice.

Are you sure he didn't say it quadrupily? Lol!