Pelosi visit to Taiwan

[Majors]

Haha. Everything in your world really is a "grassy knoll" situation, isn't it?
Lay off the Q-ool-Aid, man.

So Covid death ticker and reporters from Ukraine are on your set? You really trust Joy Reid.

 

[EasternVol]

Obviously, this is provocative. The people telling her to go are trying to get a reaction out of China. Why do we have to instigate s^^t unnecessarily in other countries' sphere of influence?

How is it provocative? We've dealt with ROC for years. PRC is being provocative with their rhetoric.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Or, it will show that we are finally acting like pragmatic human beings. Only a lunatic would try to call aa rival nuclear power's bluff. Only a madman would try to call two nuclear powers' bluff at the same time.

I don't know about some of you people. This wouldn't just be a dumb move if Pelosi goes. It would be a disaster.

Oh calm down. The loss of face for us is way bigger if she doesn't. They aren't gonna shoot her down for visiting Taiwan. THAT would be stupid

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Duplicate

 

[VolStrom]

I'm curious what plane she is taking. I know they have a couple of 757's painted in the presidential scheme, but I don't know if they are reserved for el presidente or not. A 737 seems like it would be a little short range for a trip to Asia. Seeing her in the back of a C-130 sitting in strap chairs would be most fitting though.

 

[EasternVol]

Hey genius, this is a nuclear power. And this is not the China of the 1990s.

So we better just give them control of Earth now, right? Maybe Biden can issue an EO declaring that we must do as Xi says. And we can use our military to enforce that worldwide, except in Russia of course.
It's easy to see that you champion Russia and China against all others. Saying we should acquiesce like craven cowards seems to be your way of taking their side

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

How is it provocative?

China has a clear concern (whether you think it is a valid concern is not relevant) that a leading US official (3rd in power succession behind POTUS and VP) could be making a visit that is setting the stage for US recognition of Taiwan.

We've dealt with ROC for years. PRC is being provocative with their rhetoric.

So you are going to call their bluff and risk a military confrontation over this? Really? Is this the hill you think we should die on? For Pelosi?

Also, China has not forgotten what happened the last time something like this happened in 1997 when Newt visited Taiwan. The Chinese protested and the US responded by moving in their war ships to the Taiwan Straits as a show of force. They have not forgotten that. They had to back down back then, but from the message that came out a few days ago regarding "playing with fire", they are possibly willing to do something about it this time.

 

[UT_Dutchman]

I'm curious what plane she is taking. I know they have a couple of 757's painted in the presidential scheme, but I don't know if they are reserved for el presidente or not. A 737 seems like it would be a little short range for a trip to Asia. Seeing her in the back of a C-130 sitting in strap chairs would be most fitting though.

And then open the back door over the pacific and have her pull a parachute.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Oh calm down.

There is nothing funny or humorous about this situation. It doesn't matter if China only has one nuke in their possession. That is all it will take to wipe out humanity.

The loss of face for us is way bigger if she doesn't.

No, this is a loss of face for Pelosi and the Biden Administration. It is quite clear that these clowns are corrupt and incompetent.

They aren't gonna shoot her down for visiting Taiwan. THAT would be stupid

I would say likely not. I would give it 99% odds not. But why even risk that 1%? Over Pelosi? Really?

 

[VolStrom]

And then open the back door over the pacific and have her pull a parachute.

That would make a great movie.

 

[VolStrom]

There is nothing funny or humorous about this situation. It doesn't matter if China only has one nuke in their possession. That is all it will take to wipe out humanity.


No, this is a loss of face for Pelosi and the Biden Administration. It is quite clear that these clowns are corrupt and incompetent.


I would say likely not. I would give it 99% odds not. But why even risk that 1%? Over Pelosi? Really?

Ras, you know the Chinese are just saber-rattling like the North Koreans did with Trump to see if he would back down. The PRC isn't about to shoot down a plane carrying the speaker of the house, or even fire at it or any escort planes.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So we better just give them control of Earth now, right?

What a leap. From Taiwan to global dominance. I guess it would be better if the US was the global police force? Look at how economical and peaceful that has been for us thus far.

Maybe Biden can issue an EO declaring that we must do as Xi says. And we can use our military to enforce that worldwide, except in Russia of course.

At least on the domestic front, I don't see how that would be a change of policy for the Biden Administration. He's basically modeled his entire term around CCP policies.

It's easy to see that you champion Russia and China against all others. Saying we should acquiesce like craven cowards seems to be your way of taking their side

No, I'm a champion of America being a non-interventionalist state and returning to some of the founding principles. These empire building and global policing has wasted too much blood and treasure here at home, and we are in a constant search for enemies or conflicts to insert ourselves into for the sake of feeding the MIC beast. But now our govt is only down to 3 enemies left in the world: Russia, China and the American people. As you have seen, they are eager to go to war on all 3.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ras, you know the Chinese are just saber-rattling like the North Koreans did with Trump to see if he would back down. The PRC isn't about to shoot down a plane carrying the speaker of the house, or even fire at it or any escort planes.

My point is why take a chance of provoking in the first place? China has their red lines just like we do? Russia has their red lines just like we do? If any of those two were to do anything to provoke us, what do you think our response would be?

You also greatly underestimate what the consequences of this provocation may be and underestimate the capabilities of the Russians and Chinese to retaliate.

Will the Chinese shoot down her plane? Highly unlikely. But will they respond in some form with either an embargo of goods/sanctions? 80-90% chance that could happen? Would they respond militantly in the near future? 50/50 at this moment.

 

[EasternVol]

China has a clear concern (whether you think it is a valid concern is not relevant) that a leading US official (3rd in power succession behind POTUS and VP) could be making a visit that is setting the stage for US recognition of Taiwan.


So you are going to call their bluff and risk a military confrontation over this? Really? Is this the hill you think we should die on? For Pelosi?

Also, China has not forgotten what happened the last time something like this happened in 1997 when Newt visited Taiwan. The Chinese protested and the US responded by moving in their war ships to the Taiwan Straits as a show of force. They have not forgotten that. They had to back down back then, but from the message that came out a few days ago regarding "playing with fire", they are possibly willing to do something about it this time.

PRC does not control where our 'leadership' may visit just as we don't control where theirs may. I'm sure you are aware that as PRC has gained in power they have increasingly pushed the limits of international intercourse and tried to make and impose their own rules, e.g. the nine dash line. We and others have stupidly accommodated them in too many cases.
The more others give, the more they try to take. Appeasement of PRC is sheer stupidity.
Their threats against Pelosi's trip are bluster; they know there are a lot of wimps in the White House and a few on VN so they think we may back down and let them call the shots.
Yes we should proceed with that trip and if anything increase the scope.
It's good that PRC remembers our previous response. Ideally we'll show some backbone and again not back down.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Their threats against Pelosi's trip are bluster; they know there are a lot of wimps in the Whitehouse and a few on VN so they think we may back down and let them call the shots.

I think they are wimps and lunatics... and corrupt.

Now is this the group of people that you want in charge if we do get into a military conflict with China?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The loss of face for us...

We have a crossdresser as secretary of health, a VP the other day that is getting mocked around the world for identifying her preferred pronouns, a Saigon-style exit from Afghanistan and a senile POTUS that can't ride a bike or control his bowel movements.

Miss me with this saving face nonsense. We already look like clowns. That horse has left the barn.

 

[VolStrom]

My point is why take a chance of provoking in the first place? China has their red lines just like we do? Russia has their red lines just like we do? If any of those two were to do anything to provoke us, what do you think our response would be?

You also greatly underestimate what the consequences of this provocation may be and underestimate the capabilities of the Russians and Chinese to retaliate.

Will the Chinese shoot down her plane? Highly unlikely. But will they respond in some form with either an embargo of goods/sanctions? 80-90% chance that could happen? Would they respond militantly in the near future? 50/50 at this moment.

Ras, I grew up a military brat, and the one thing I learned was that you never back down from a challenge. Every 2-3 years I moved to a new post and school and was challenged at each one. I always chose to fight and whether I won or lost, I earned the respect of the guy I fought. Usually we became friends.
I view this as the adult version of what I went through. China isn't going to burn the world down over Nancy Pelosi flying into Taiwan.

 

[rekinhavoc]

We have a crossdresser as secretary of health, a VP the other day that is getting mocked around the world for identifying her preferred pronouns, a Saigon-style exit from Afghanistan and a senile POTUS that can't ride a bike or control his bowel movements.

Miss me with this saving face nonsense. We already look like clowns. That horse has left the barn.

We should save that for the plaque at his presidential library.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ras, I grew up a military brat, and the one thing I learned was that you never back down from a challenge. Every 2-3 years I moved to a new post and school and was challenged at each one. I always chose to fight and whether I won or lost, I earned the respect of the guy I fought. Usually we became friends.
I view this as the adult version of what I went through. China isn't going to burn the world down over Nancy Pelosi flying into Taiwan.

How many school yard bullies had nukes? A fist fight in gravel is nowhere near the same as a nuclear exchange that threatens a large portion of humanity.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ras, I grew up a military brat, and the one thing I learned was that you never back down from a challenge. Every 2-3 years I moved to a new post and school and was challenged at each one. I always chose to fight and whether I won or lost, I earned the respect of the guy I fought. Usually we became friends.
I view this as the adult version of what I went through. China isn't going to burn the world down over Nancy Pelosi flying into Taiwan.

Also, that is your experience. The people running the show right now are nothing more than academics, lawyers and govt sycophants with no real world experience in anything that matters. This is not the time to be getting into a major military conflict with China... especially when we already have one pot on the stove cooking with Russia and we've already been run out of Afghanistan by these same clowns. If they can't successfully orchestrate a withdrawal from a 3rd World s^^thole like Afghanistan, then we have no business provoking a nuclear peer over Pelosi, Taiwan or "saving face".

 

[VolStrom]

How many school yard bullies had nukes? A fist fight in gravel is nowhere near the same as a nuclear exchange that threatens a large portion of humanity.

Guess what, we all have nukes. Unless China and Russia are governed by total idiots, neither is going to launch a nuke and destroy the planet. If one launches a nuke, the world for humans ends on that day.

 

[EasternVol]

I think they are wimps and lunatics... and corrupt.

Now is this the group of people that you want in charge if we do get into a military conflict with China?

The military can handle it. If Biden and his crew back down now it will make it that much harder for the next administration to gain leverage. PRC knows they will lose a war against us. They are trying to manouvre us to a point we cannot fight them and win. And you are cheering for that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Guess what, we all have nukes. Unless China and Russia are governed by total idiots, neither is going to launch a nuke and destroy the planet. If one launches a nuke, the world for humans ends on that day.

I'm not worried about their idiots...

 

[VolStrom]

Also, that is your experience. The people running the show right now are nothing more than academics, lawyers and govt sycophants with no real world experience in anything that matters. This is not the time to be getting into a major military conflict with China... especially when we already have one pot on the stove cooking with Russia and we've already been run out of Afghanistan by these same clowns. If they can't successfully orchestrate a withdrawal from a 3rd World s^^thole like Afghanistan, then we have no business provoking a nuclear peer over Pelosi, Taiwan or "saving face".

I actually think this is the perfect time to stir the pot with China. We need to decouple our economy from theirs, and we apparently are so drunk on reclaiming some of our money, we don't know how. Having them shoot at Pelosi's plane would evict them from our economy in short order.

 

[tntar heel]

As a show of solidarity, I would put Brandon and Kamala on the same plane.

Well that would get us to Pat Leahy.