Penn State scandal (merged)

#3,351
#3,351
utvols88 said:
Again if joe pa saw it happen you have a point. Most of the arguments fit better against Mike McQueary. Not joe pa.
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McQueary is worse, but JoePa just passing it up and forgetting about it is not an acceptable way to have handled it.
 
#3,353
#3,353
MontereyVol said:
How many case studies can you find and use as a collective that showed people avoiding exposing child rape by a non-relative and witnessed by a non-relative.
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You're kidding right? NYC alone has enough case study. Bystander effect look that up please. It's a real term.
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#3,354
#3,354
ItsDarwinism said:
No, its called perspective.

I don't have to ponder what is right and wrong in this case, but I'm not so stupid to think that I know exactly what I would have done if I was the GA in question, or Joe Paterno. I don't, and respectfully, neither do you.
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It quite clear then, we have different perspective about doing the right thing and doing nothing!
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#3,355
#3,355
hmanvolfan said:
You're right about the case studies. But an individual in authority over such a huge group of people would have to take action after thinking about the ponderance of the information after thinking it over for a couple of days at least.
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No he's not, and he knows it, or some BS percentage would have been thrown out there.
 
#3,357
#3,357
therealUT said:
Case studies regarding eye-witnesses of rapes and murders have demonstrated that many a surprising percentage of individuals neither step in to help nor report all type of heinous acts.

I would not be surprised by individuals not following up after reporting crimes.
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I might buy that if the perp is not someone you see on a regular basis for several years after the fact. Not to mention he worked under you.
 
#3,359
#3,359
lylsmorr said:
Joe knew what mcqueary knew - A child was raped. Joe had just as much obligation to report this as mcqueary, the AD, campus polce...everyone who knew.
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No. McQueary saw it and passed a paraphrase to joe pa which details of this paraphrase remain unknown. Mike McQueary is the real coward here. He watches as joe pa is crusified on behalf of his own failings.
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#3,360
#3,360
therealUT said:
You are the one who stated that you declare someone guilty and then try to collect evidence on them.
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They arent guilty until I can prove it in court.

Do you know what a suspect is?

A murder is committed with no witnesses. We investigate the crime. A CI calls in with a tip. The CI says "Rob" did it. How do you know Rob did it? Rob was bragging at a party about it. The CI has always given solid info.

See where I'm going yet?

At that time, I am pretty confident that Rob did the murder, yet I have no concrete evidence to prove guilt, therefore, I cant go arrest him, even though I trust my CI. I want to be damned sure he did it. Thats when I start running leads on Rob. Did he have a connection to the victim? Why would he want to kill the victim? Motive if you didnt know what I was getting at. The more evidence I have to prove Robs guilt, the better I feel about the case. Then I take it to the Grand Jury for indictment


Investigation 101
 
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#3,361
#3,361
CountVolcula said:
Doesnt make it right because others are cowards
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I would not be too quick to label them cowards. David Grossman goes into the psychology of this type of thing in either "On Killing" or "On Combat". Basically, according to Grossman, either through nurture or nature, you are predisposed to be either a Sheep, a Sheepdog, or a Wolf. A great majority are predisposed to be sheep; only tiny minorities are sheepdogs and wolves.

Sheepdogs and wolfs, though diabolically opposed, can understand each other. They are both actors and use aggression to accomplish their purpose. Neither sheepdogs nor wolves can understand sheep.

That said, society requires sheep and, since Wolves are around, also requires sheepdogs; the sheep should no more look down upon the dogs than the dogs should look down on the sheep. They both have essential roles to fill in society.
 
#3,362
#3,362
utvols88 said:
You're kidding right? NYC alone has enough case study. Bystander effect look that up please. It's a real term.
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This isn't nyc and a stranger seeing someone in an alley. Why can't you understand the difference? Do a bystander study of watching a coach rape a child in a college locker room and get back to me on the results.

Get out of the book and try to think an original thought of common sense.
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#3,365
#3,365
ItsDarwinism said:
How do you know that? The fact of the matter is that I dont know what I would have done if I had been in Paterno's or McQueary's situation, and if you say that you know exactly what course of action you would take then you are a delusional. Sorry, nobody knows what they would have done in those same circumstances, they only claim to know and thats what makes them a hypocrite.
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Is it really that hard?

Your in the GAs shoes and see a child being raped in the shower when you walk by. What do you do?
 
#3,366
#3,366
BeecherVol said:
I might buy that if the perp is not someone you see on a regular basis for several years after the fact. Not to mention he worked under you.
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Actually that makes it worse. Example: people raped by a stranger are more likely to report it than someone raped by someone they know. Same with assault. And same with a witness.
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#3,367
#3,367
pl3 said:
Very few people, if they were truthful, would agree with that. You mean to tell me you don't think sandusky is any more sick than a dude that raped a stripper in a parking lot? I can't fathom that thought process.
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I meant exactly what I said. A rapist is a rapist.
 
#3,368
#3,368
Oldvol75 said:
It quite clear then, we have different perspective about doing the right thing and doing nothing!
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No, what we have here is a clear case of YOU saying that you know EXACTLY what you would do if YOU were Joe Paterno or the GA McQueary.

This is not a matter of knowing right from wrong, or what should have been done, this is a question of what an individual would have done in that same exact situation, and neither you nor anybody on this friggin board knows what they would have done.

There is no disagreement about right and wrong, only disagreement about the extraodinary speculation about what individuals would have done under the exact same circumstances and I say you guys are full of crap!
 
#3,370
#3,370
utvols88 said:
You're kidding right? NYC alone has enough case study. Bystander effect look that up please. It's a real term.
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Not kidding,

I'm not arguing that most case studies show people say nothing in the event of rape I am telling you most of those people are witnessing family members which adds a whole new dynamic.
 
#3,373
#3,373
utvols88 said:
Actually that makes it worse. Example: people raped by a stranger are more likely to report it than someone raped by someone they know. Same with assault. And same with a witness.
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As apposed to the entire upper admins being fired as well as a 46 year legendary coach for not doing anything?
 
#3,375
#3,375
ItsDarwinism said:
No, what we have here is a clear case of YOU saying that you know EXACTLY what you would do if YOU were Joe Paterno or the GA McQueary.

This is not a matter of knowing right from wrong, or what should have been done, this is a question of what an individual would have done in that same exact situation, and neither you nor anybody on this friggin board knows what they would have done.

There is no disagreement about right and wrong, only disagreement about the extraodinary speculation about what individuals would have done under the exact same circumstances and I say you guys are full of crap!
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I know exactly what I would do! I would have done my best to stop it a rescue the child. Just because you don't know what to do shows alot! You can't possibly have children or you wouldn't even think twice about what to do! Those psychology books don't always have the best answer.
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