Peyton manning= best qb ever

#202
#202
KBVol said:
Oh I don't know.... 14 year veteran who had just undergone 4 freakin neck surgeries. If you read the SI article on him that came out last week you realize that his arm was worse than most anybody knew after those surgeries. He literally could not throw a football or anything else for awhile. Peyton actually contemplated retirement because he wasn't sure if his arm would ever respond/return allowing him to make a comeback.

Seems to me that Irsay certainly had that knowledge. He coupled that information with the opportunity to take who most considered another generational-type franchise QB with the 1st overall pick in Andrew Luck. Younger, healthy, future star coming in vs older, unhealthy, past star with a very uncertain future..... what decision would you have expected him to make?
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So the Colts got rid of Manning for someone that was statistically on par with Matt Cassel.
 
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#203
#203
vols-1 said:
So the Colts got rid of Manning for someone that was statistically on par with Matt Cassel.
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The Irsay's are not known for loyalty but my guess is they were looking at the next 15 years instead of the next two or three.
 
#205
#205
vols-1 said:
So the Colts got rid of Manning for someone that was statistically on par with Matt Cassel.
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I'm missing your point here. Cassel was a career back-up in college. Luck was a two time Hiesman finalist.

I'm sure Irsay would have preferred Manning retire a Colt. The set of circumstances that led to them parting ways was certainly out of the ordinary. Had the Colts mustered up 5 or 6 wins and missed the opportunity to draft Luck there is a good chance Manning would still be there.
 
#206
#206
gobraves101035 said:
I just got done looking at some statistics and records and currently Peyton is a 483 touchdown passes, only 25 away from beating favre to be number 1. Peyton is currently at 64,296 passing yards and favre had 71,838. Peyton is on the tail of favre and will soon be the best quarterback to ever step foot on the field. I know this may be a little off topic to this forum just wanted to let everyone know just how close he is to being the best. thanks
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5 NFL MVPs says it all. These are player awards. [SBs are team awards.]

Favre, Unitas the Jim Brown have 3 MVPs -- no one else has more than 2.
 
#207
#207
KBVol said:
He's been a bust.
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He started 4 seasons for them, and is starting for Minnesota this season. Call him a bust if you want, but he was good enough to be a starter elsewhere.

The 3 guys that played QB in Manning's absence are a guy that was already retired, and 2 guys that will never sniff a starting job in the NFL.

Cassel is not an awesome QB by any means but acting like he's some worthless bum is silly; and ignoring that the Colts DID replace Manning with 3 bums is just as silly. Common sense should tell you if the Colts had a QB worth a crap they would have not been 2-14. I'm not saying they'd be 11-5 but they wouldn't be nearly as bad as they were.
 
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#208
#208
vols-1 said:
So the Colts got rid of Manning for someone that was statistically on par with Matt Cassel.
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The Colts moved on to who they thought (and every other NFL GM and draft expertthought) was the next once in a generation type young and healthy franchise QB in Luck, after their last once in a generation type franchise QB who consistently led the team to 12 wins seasons, a top seeded playoff berth, 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 NFL championship, had a severe neck injury requiring 4 major surgeries over a 15 month period.

Not sure if you were asking a serious question or not. Luck was outstanding last year and again this year leading the Colts to 2 straight playoff appearances. Luck has had more success in his first 2 years at Indy than Cassell has had in his career.
 
#209
#209
VolsSportsFan said:
He started 4 seasons for them, and is starting for Minnesota this season. Call him a bust if you want, but he was good enough to be a starter elsewhere.

The 3 guys that played QB in Manning's absence are a guy that was already retired, and 2 guys that will never sniff a starting job in the NFL.

Cassel is not an awesome QB by any means but acting like he's some worthless bum is silly; and ignoring that the Colts DID replace Manning with 3 bums is just as silly. Common sense should tell you if the Colts had a QB worth a crap they would have not been 2-14. I'm not saying they'd be 11-5 but they wouldn't be nearly as bad as they were.
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It's fair to say the Pats '08 record was not as hindered by the quality of QB as the Colts '11 record. Kerry Collins should have been able to get a few more wins for them. Ultimately this goes to show how the front office of the Pats is run better than Colts. Again highlighting an advantage for Brady to win Superbowls.
 
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#210
#210
VolsSportsFan said:
He started 4 seasons for them, and is starting for Minnesota this season. Call him a bust if you want, but he was good enough to be a starter elsewhere.

The 3 guys that played QB in Manning's absence are a guy that was already retired, and 2 guys that will never sniff a starting job in the NFL.

Cassel is not an awesome QB by any means but acting like he's some worthless bum is silly; and ignoring that the Colts DID replace Manning with 3 bums is just as silly. Common sense should tell you if the Colts had a QB worth a crap they would have not been 2-14. I'm not saying they'd be 11-5 but they wouldn't be nearly as bad as they were.
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Agree that the Colts Qbs that replaced Manning were really bad. But that just shows how valuable Manning was. One guy playing at his level equals 12 wins a year. Take him and him alone away, replace him with a bad QB and in one year they're the worst team in football.

Conversely, replace Brady with a serviceable QB in Cassell, who never started in college, who's performed well only one other year in his career, and NE still has the 4th best record overall in the NFL.

I'm not saying Brady is anything other than a great QB. I posted earlier that he's top 5 all time in my opinion. But to not look at the 2 franchises and what happened when Manning was gone vs when Brady was gone and not conclude that Manning was more valuable? I don't know. Guess we'll agree to disagree.
 
#212
#212
One thing that has always impressed me about Manning is that he has been exceedingly successful everywhere he's been. In HS he finished up as Gatorade's Circle of Champions National Offensive POTY. There's no need to elaborate on his college achievements on this board I trust and in the NFL he's set the season TD record twice while playing on two different teams.

Personally I don't think it's possible to compare team sport players directly. There are simply too many variables. Still, I do think there's something to be said for a QB that was at least "arguably" the best at his position in the entire country going all the way back to HS.
 
#213
#213
WiseOlVol said:
5 NFL MVPs says it all. These are player awards. [SBs are team awards.]

Favre, Unitas the Jim Brown have 3 MVPs -- no one else has more than 2.
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Super Bowl MVP is a player award also and just as important, which Montana and Brady have multiple of.
 
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#215
#215
hndog609 said:
Not taking a shot at you for this but how would that be determined in any truly empirical way?
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I don't know anyone off the top of my head that has twice as many interceptions then touchdowns lol. painter has 6 career td's and 12 int's. That sucks nuts bad, that's why im amazed that the mans been on a roster for 4 years
 
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#216
#216
gobraves101035 said:
I don't know anyone off the top of my head that has twice as many interceptions then touchdowns lol. painter has 6 career td's and 12 int's. That sucks nuts bad
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LOL, no doubt! Just saying the nature of a backup is that for most you'll never really know how bad they truly might be.
 
#217
#217
KBVol said:
Agree that the Colts Qbs that replaced Manning were really bad. But that just shows how valuable Manning was. One guy playing at his level equals 12 wins a year. Take him and him alone away, replace him with a bad QB and in one year they're the worst team in football.

Conversely, replace Brady with a serviceable QB in Cassell, who never started in college, who's performed well only one other year in his career, and NE still has the 4th best record overall in the NFL.

I'm not saying Brady is anything other than a great QB. I posted earlier that he's top 5 all time in my opinion. But to not look at the 2 franchises and what happened when Manning was gone vs when Brady was gone and not conclude that Manning was more valuable? I don't know. Guess we'll agree to disagree.
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No I think it's clear Manning was more valuable, mainly because they built the team around him. I think that season showed the Colts relied way too much on him actually. I've never seen a team drop that much in quality over one player, especially in a team sport like football.

And to be fair to the "bums" that replaced Manning, they really should have been probably at least 5-11 (not that it's that much better), because they lost some pretty close ones and a few I remember they just had some really bad luck. Of course you can argue with Manning they pull those out, and you'd probably be right.
 
#218
#218
KBVol said:
Agree that the Colts Qbs that replaced Manning were really bad. But that just shows how valuable Manning was. One guy playing at his level equals 12 wins a year. Take him and him alone away, replace him with a bad QB and in one year they're the worst team in football.

Conversely, replace Brady with a serviceable QB in Cassell, who never started in college, who's performed well only one other year in his career, and NE still has the 4th best record overall in the NFL.

I'm not saying Brady is anything other than a great QB. I posted earlier that he's top 5 all time in my opinion. But to not look at the 2 franchises and what happened when Manning was gone vs when Brady was gone and not conclude that Manning was more valuable? I don't know. Guess we'll agree to disagree.
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Cassell and Luck both have the same overall QB rating(80). When they replaced Manning and Brady their teams both won 11 games. Same level QB=Same results
 
#219
#219
hndog609 said:
LOL, no doubt! Just saying the nature of a backup is that for most you'll never really know how bad they truly might be.
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They should do the QB competition they do every year, only make it only for backup and 3rd string QBs.

The ratings would be through the roof!
 
#220
#220
What's funny to me is we're discussing Montana, Brady, and Manning, and how similar Montana and Manning careers have been in this area. Both were hurt, and both the organizations they thrived on had to make a difficult choice to go with the younger name that had more potential upside. Both the Niners and Colts' choices have paid off (it remains to be seen how much Luck will as compared to Young), and both Manning and Montana went to AFC West teams where they have done well (Manning obviously has done better).

And to tie in Brady, Cassel left the Patriots to go start for the Chiefs, which is where Montana ended his career.
 
#223
#223
vols-1 said:
Championships not stats means best IMO. And Joe Montana has Five total championships.
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Championships are team awards. Check the HOF to see how many of Montana's teammates are there. Same with Bradshaw.

Bart Starr was 9-1 in the playoffs and has 5 NFL Championships. Half the team is in the HOF.
 
#224
#224
jeffmcflurry27 said:
I love watching Peyton as much as anyone on here, but you cannot make a rational argument that he is the best considering his record against Brady and how many rings they have in comparison. Now, If he gets a SB this year the whole dynamic changes, but until then one can rationally argue that he isn't.

Not trying to be a jerk, but just saying it how it is.
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I don't recall seeing Peyton playing defense or kicking FGs for the Colts/Broncos, or Brady for the Pats. Who's a better HC, Jim Mora or Bill Belichek? Brady isn't 10-4vs. Manning, that's the teams' combined records.
 
#225
#225
VolsSportsFan said:
What's funny to me is we're discussing Montana, Brady, and Manning, and how similar Montana and Manning careers have been in this area. Both were hurt, and both the organizations they thrived on had to make a difficult choice to go with the younger name that had more potential upside. Both the Niners and Colts' choices have paid off (it remains to be seen how much Luck will as compared to Young), and both Manning and Montana went to AFC West teams where they have done well (Manning obviously has done better).

And to tie in Brady, Cassel left the Patriots to go start for the Chiefs, which is where Montana ended his career.
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Now do the Steve DeBerg replacements list. Lol Young is my favorite QB ever, dude was complete lunatic on the field.
 
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