Peyton manning= best qb ever

[BenGrimm]

I'm not arguing that they haven't had bad performances, hell everyone has. But calling them garbage is ridiculous.

Even if Brady does take more, the sack discrepancy between the 2 is pretty big. The Colts did 2 things while Peyton was there, make sure he was protected and make sure he had weapons. Which was the problem honestly, in doing so they neglected the D.

I agree that the Colts put an emphasis on building the offense which may have contributed to their mostly poor defenses over the years. It's also worth noting that the defense was built for Manning to get a 2-3 score lead then just rush the passer more often.

I guess you could say that despite their success (thanks to Manning) the Indy front office did a poor job of building a balanced team to win Championships. They put everything on Manning.

Conversely, that is something the Pats have excelled at. It's no coincidence that CBB is in charge of player personnel.

 

[BadJerry20]

I agree that the Colts put an emphasis on building the offense which may have contributed to their mostly poor defenses over the years. It's also worth noting that the defense was built for Manning to get a 2-3 score lead then just rush the passer more often.

I guess you could say that despite their success (thanks to Manning) the Indy front office did a poor job of building a balanced team to win Championships. They put everything on Manning.

Conversely, that is something the Pats have excelled at. It's no coincidence that CBB is in charge of player personnel.

I agree, the Pat's have almost been the opposite of the Colts. One built almost completely around the offense, give the QB protection and weapons while almost neglecting the D. The other gave the QB adequate weapons, but really focused on D. One gets crazy stats the other chips. This is by no means Brady and Peytons fault. But in Mannings case it's almost a gift and a curse. Teams have rarely won it all doing it the Colts way, kind of puzzling as to why they never tried a different formula.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Matt Cassel is not the difference between 2-14 and 11-5.

You can't tell me he's not some difference. People here are acting like the Patriots just rolled some bum out there, while that's essentially what the Colts actually did.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

A garbage run game? He had a 1500 yard rusher 5 times and at least a 1000 yard rusher another 3 times. James also had a year around 980.

As for the line.

PM over 30 sacks 0 times
Over 20 sacks 7 times
Under 15 sacks 5 times
under 20 8 times

TB over 30 sacks 4 times
Over 20 sacks 12 times
under 15 sacks 0 times
Under 20 sacks 1 times

JM over 30 sacks 4 times
Over 20 sacks 9 times
Under 15 sacks 3 times
Under 20 sacks 4 times

Edit on JM he was under 15, 3 times

In terms of starting running backs, I agree. Peyton had the advantage of playing with Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James at the peak of their respective careers in Indianapolis. The Patriots, however, have often utilized a running back-by-committee approach during this period and a much different picture emerges when you compare team rushing totals, one that more often than not favored New England:

2001: NE 1793 yds. INDY 1966 yds.
2002: NE 1508 yds. INDY 1561 yds.
2003: NE 1607 yds. INDY 1695 yds.
2004: NE 2134 yds. INDY 1852 yds.
2005: NE 1512 yds. INDY 1703 yds.
2006: NE 1969 yds. INDY 1762 yds.
2007: NE 1849 yds. INDY 1706 yds.
2008: NE 2278 yds. INDY 1274 yds. Brady misses almost entire season.
2009: NE 1921 yds. INDY 1294 yds.
2010: NE 1973 yds. INDY 1483 yds.
2011: NE 1764 yds. INDY 1594 yds. Manning misses entire season.
2012: NE 2184 yds. DENV 1832 yds.
2013: NE 1798 yds. DENV 1749 yds.

Please note that New England has outrushed teams led by Peyton for the last EIGHT consecutive years. Coupled with data presented previously, does this information suggest a formula for success with which long-time SEC fans are quite familiar? Yes, a strong running game and stout defense is the most reliable foundation for the pursuit of championships.

With respect to sacks, certainly a great deal of credit goes to the pass protection skills of the offensive lines with whom Peyton has played. Personally, I am inclined, however, to attribute even more of Peyton’s low sack totals to the speed with which that Pentium processor inside his skull analyzes data. “Mobile” has never been an accurate descriptor of Peyton, and with the current status of his ankles, “statue-like” more readily comes to mind. Nevertheless, Peyton has been sacked only 17 times in 631 attempts. A comparison to the sack totals of mobile quarterbacks, on the other hand, is eye-opening:

Andrew Luck: 31
Cam Newton: 42
Robert Griffin III: 38
Russell Wilson: 40
Colin Kaepernick: 37
Aaron Rodgers: 18 (only 251 attempts)
Terrelle Pryor: 29 (only 234 attempts)
Michael Vick: 15 (only 141 attempts)

Peyton’s greatest talent is, quite simply, his cerebral mastery of his position.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

You're not gonna argue Casey was the better QB are ya Doyle?

Not the better all around QB. I'm just saying that if I had to choose between two, at the time they were in college, I would take Clausen to play for that one win.

 

[NCFisher]

Brady has two Superbowl losses now so Montana is basically alone if championships are the determining factor. Montana also never threw an interception in a Superbowl and won two titles without Rice. If you needed a QB for one game with everything on the line it would probably be Montana. If a career body of work is the criteria then the greatest will be Manning in my opinion when all is said and done. He is the best in the league right now so he is not done yet.

No one is playing for body of work, but for SBowl rings. Put another way, if your life is the bet there a handful of QBs you might rather wager on. NFL starting quarterback playoff records - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BadJerry20]

In terms of starting running backs, I agree. Peyton had the advantage of playing with Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James at the peak of their respective careers in Indianapolis. The Patriots, however, have often utilized a running back-by-committee approach during this period and a much different picture emerges when you compare team rushing totals, one that more often than not favored New England:

2001: NE 1793 yds. INDY 1966 yds.
2002: NE 1508 yds. INDY 1561 yds.
2003: NE 1607 yds. INDY 1695 yds.
2004: NE 2134 yds. INDY 1852 yds.
2005: NE 1512 yds. INDY 1703 yds.
2006: NE 1969 yds. INDY 1762 yds.
2007: NE 1849 yds. INDY 1706 yds.
2008: NE 2278 yds. INDY 1274 yds. Brady misses almost entire season.
2009: NE 1921 yds. INDY 1294 yds.
2010: NE 1973 yds. INDY 1483 yds.
2011: NE 1764 yds. INDY 1594 yds. Manning misses entire season.
2012: NE 2184 yds. DENV 1832 yds.
2013: NE 1798 yds. DENV 1749 yds.

Please note that New England has outrushed teams led by Peyton for the last EIGHT consecutive years. Coupled with data presented previously, does this information suggest a formula for success with which long-time SEC fans are quite familiar? Yes, a strong running game and stout defense is the most reliable foundation for the pursuit of championships.

With respect to sacks, certainly a great deal of credit goes to the pass protection skills of the offensive lines with whom Peyton has played. Personally, I am inclined, however, to attribute even more of Peyton’s low sack totals to the speed with which that Pentium processor inside his skull analyzes data. “Mobile” has never been an accurate descriptor of Peyton, and with the current status of his ankles, “statue-like” more readily comes to mind. Nevertheless, Peyton has been sacked only 17 times in 631 attempts. A comparison to the sack totals of mobile quarterbacks, on the other hand, is eye-opening:

Andrew Luck: 31
Cam Newton: 42
Robert Griffin III: 38
Russell Wilson: 40
Colin Kaepernick: 37
Aaron Rodgers: 18 (only 251 attempts)
Terrelle Pryor: 29 (only 234 attempts)
Michael Vick: 15 (only 141 attempts)

Peyton’s greatest talent is, quite simply, his cerebral mastery of his position.

That's an excellent point on RBs. The sacks that I pointed out was for comparison of the 3 QBs brought up the most during this thread. All of which got rid of the ball fairly quick. Sure Mannings are reduced by his ability to read a defense quickly. But Brady is pretty good at that as well. Montana was as well plus the west coast offense was predicated on quick shorter passes. Though he definitely had better wheels than the other 2 which probably contributed to his higher totals a little bit.

My point to bringing up what guys had rushed for while playing with Manning, as well as the sacks. Was in response to the guy saying that Peyton had garbage backs and a garbage line, when in fact that just wasn't true. James was a very good back and Addai was a decent back. The line as I'm sure most people would acknowledge has been very good over his years.

The mobile QB stat isn't that surprising, those guys instead of just throwing it away are more likely to try and make something out of nothing.

 

[BadJerry20]

I do find it interesting that the highest rushing total for N.E. was during Matt Cassels season. 2278 yards rushing might have had a little something with N.E. not falling completely off. Though NE was -6 wins without Brady, while the Colts were -8 without Manning. So not far off. Also of note Cassel was sacked 47 times that year. Brady the year before 21, the year after 16.

Edit: sure some of that was Cassel get blitzed more. But 26 and 31 more sacks in the years sandwiching Cassels year is a huge number.

 

[jp1]

I do find it interesting that the highest rushing total for N.E. was during Matt Cassels season. 2278 yards rushing might have had a little something with N.E. not falling completely off. Though NE was -6 wins without Brady, while the Colts were -8 without Manning. So not far off. Also of note Cassel was sacked 47 times that year. Brady the year before 21, the year after 16.

Edit: sure some of that was Cassel get blitzed more. But 26 and 31 more sacks in the years sandwiching Cassels year is a huge number.

Not following the NE was -6 wins without Brady part. NE went 11-5 without Brady. It's still early here....help me out a bit?

 

[bigslk]

The way the Heisman trophy is looked at today was forever changed with that shenanigans

It's not called the Heisman anymore, it's the ESPN award, because whoever they talk about or push is usually who wins it.....

 

[KBVol]

Trent Dilfer also has more rings than Dan Marino.

As does Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien and Rich Gannon

 

[KBVol]

I do find it interesting that the highest rushing total for N.E. was during Matt Cassels season. 2278 yards rushing might have had a little something with N.E. not falling completely off. Though NE was -6 wins without Brady, while the Colts were -8 without Manning. So not far off. Also of note Cassel was sacked 47 times that year. Brady the year before 21, the year after 16.

Edit: sure some of that was Cassel get blitzed more. But 26 and 31 more sacks in the years sandwiching Cassels year is a huge number.

Don't compare the actual records, compare the state of the teams. Yes NE went 11-5 the year Brady was hurt, which was a 5 game drop from the year before, but they contended for a playoff spot with one of the better records in the AFC....they still had the 4th best record in the NFL.

When Peyton when down and didn't play due to injury, the Colts completely fell apart, going 2-14, turning into the worst team in the league, which led to them getting the overall #1 pick in the draft the following year and selecting Andrew Luck.

 

[KBVol]

That's an excellent point on RBs. The sacks that I pointed out was for comparison of the 3 QBs brought up the most during this thread. All of which got rid of the ball fairly quick. Sure Mannings are reduced by his ability to read a defense quickly. But Brady is pretty good at that as well. Montana was as well plus the west coast offense was predicated on quick shorter passes. Though he definitely had better wheels than the other 2 which probably contributed to his higher totals a little bit.

My point to bringing up what guys had rushed for while playing with Manning, as well as the sacks. Was in response to the guy saying that Peyton had garbage backs and a garbage line, when in fact that just wasn't true. James was a very good back and Addai was a decent back. The line as I'm sure most people would acknowledge has been very good over his years.

The mobile QB stat isn't that surprising, those guys instead of just throwing it away are more likely to try and make something out of nothing.

I agree that Brady is an outstanding QB, one of the top 5 greatest of all time IMO. However, regarding the most sacks that NFL QBs have given up this year, Brady is 8th, with 39. He doesn't fit the mold of a guy trying to make something out of nothing and he plays behind an excellent OL.... adds more fuel to the fire that Manning is better at the cognitive side of the position argument IMO.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Not following the NE was -6 wins without Brady part. NE went 11-5 without Brady. It's still early here....help me out a bit?

He's comparing the records the year before with the records of each QB the year they were hurt. Although unless I'm missing something, NE should be -7, not -6 (18-1 to 11-5).

 

[thebjd]

He's comparing the records the year before with the records of each QB the year they were hurt. Although unless I'm missing something, NE should be -7, not -6 (18-1 to 11-5).

or -5 since you are counting the postseason.

 

[KBVol]

He's comparing the records the year before with the records of each QB the year they were hurt. Although unless I'm missing something, NE should be -7, not -6 (18-1 to 11-5).

Either way, NE went from the best record in the NFL with Brady to the 4th best record and still 6 games over .500 without him. The Colts, without Manning, went from a playoff team and 4 games over .500 to 12 games under .500 and the worst team in the NFL without him. That's the comparison.

 

[thebjd]

No one is playing for body of work, but for SBowl rings. Put another way, if your life is the bet there a handful of QBs you might rather wager on. NFL starting quarterback playoff records - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wouldn't want to go against Manning in any scenario.

 

[vols-1]

Either way, NE went from the best record in the NFL with Brady to the 4th best record and still 6 games over .500 without him. The Colts, without Manning, went from a playoff team and 4 games over .500 to 12 games under .500 and the worst team in the NFL without him. That's the comparison.

Then why did the Colts get rid of Manning if they couldn't win without him?

 

[BadJerry20]

Not following the NE was -6 wins without Brady part. NE went 11-5 without Brady. It's still early here....help me out a bit?

Brady started the first game so he gets the win. Lol Seriously though I accidentally hit the 6 instead of 5. My bad.

 

[BadJerry20]

Don't compare the actual records, compare the state of the teams. Yes NE went 11-5 the year Brady was hurt, which was a 5 game drop from the year before, but they contended for a playoff spot with one of the better records in the AFC....they still had the 4th best record in the NFL.

When Peyton when down and didn't play due to injury, the Colts completely fell apart, going 2-14, turning into the worst team in the league, which led to them getting the overall #1 pick in the draft the following year and selecting Andrew Luck.

Compare the QBs that replaced them. One started elsewhere, the other one well I'm not sure he is even in the league still.

 

[KBVol]

Then why did the Colts get rid of Manning if they couldn't win without him?

Oh I don't know.... 14 year veteran who had just undergone 4 freakin neck surgeries. If you read the SI article on him that came out last week you realize that his arm was worse than most anybody knew after those surgeries. He literally could not throw a football or anything else for awhile. Peyton actually contemplated retirement because he wasn't sure if his arm would ever respond/return allowing him to make a comeback.

Seems to me that Irsay certainly had that knowledge. He coupled that information with the opportunity to take who most considered another generational-type franchise QB with the 1st overall pick in Andrew Luck. Younger, healthy, future star coming in vs older, unhealthy, past star with a very uncertain future..... what decision would you have expected him to make?

 

[BadJerry20]

I agree that Brady is an outstanding QB, one of the top 5 greatest of all time IMO. However, regarding the most sacks that NFL QBs have given up this year, Brady is 8th, with 39. He doesn't fit the mold of a guy trying to make something out of nothing and he plays behind an excellent OL.... adds more fuel to the fire that Manning is better at the cognitive side of the position argument IMO.

Which is the most he has taken since his first year starting. His wrs are mostly unknowns except DA who can't stay on the field. He has to try and make plays he normally wouldn't. Comp % second lowest ever, lowest QBR are not a coincidence.

Once again my original post was in response to the PM has had a garbage line comment. I never said Brady was better at getting the ball out quicker than Manning.

 

[KBVol]

Compare the QBs that replaced them. One started elsewhere, the other one well I'm not sure he is even in the league still.

Yeah, Matt Cassell's had a helluva career since leaving the Patriots.....He got that KC contract because of how much NE won and how well he played in Brady's absence. However, once Cassell left Belichick and Patriots organization, he's been a bust.

 

[BadJerry20]

Yeah, Matt Cassell's had a helluva career since leaving the Patriots.....He got that KC contract because of how much NE won and how well he played in Brady's absence. However, once Cassell left Belichick and Patriots organization, he's been a bust.

Matt Cassel or Curtis Painter/Dan Orlovsky who are you taking?

 

[vols-1]

Yeah, Matt Cassell's had a helluva career since leaving the Patriots.....He got that KC contract because of how much NE won and how well he played in Brady's absence. However, once Cassell left Belichick and Patriots organization, he's been a bust.

Matt Cassel went 10-5 with KC in 2010 and made the Pro-Bowl. He was injured and never played a full season again.