Players can Unionize!!!

#127
#127
LSU-SIU said:
I generally agree, but blame needs to also go to the colleges... as they have made this a business. College sports can survive, most college division and sports don't have the restrictions like what most people think.

As far as I am concerned though, they need to follow law or suffer the results.... ie lawsuit. Oh, I said a while back they are coming... nothing can stop this train.
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You have constantly said they are breaking the law. What law exactly? This "every law" answer is not acceptable. Provide the statutes please or stop claiming they are breaking the law.
 
#128
#128
99gator said:
the obvious answer would be if colleges still end up making money out of the enterprise.

however, if this is allowed to stand, no one would like the ways that they would have to go about making money.

particularly, the "student-athlete"
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The student athlete is going to get drop kicked in the mouth and shanked due to this. It will be a rude awakening.
 
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#131
#131
utvols88 said:
I think it'll end up going to the Supreme Court. That will open or shut this Pandora's box. It's a long time from being over. But a dangerous thought. We will see.
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You may well be right, in the end.

I disagree with this decision. In fact, I find it pretty absurd. But let's be honest: the NCAA set themselves up for this. They have been trying to pretend that college sports are the same today as they were in the 60s, and anyone with a functioning brain knows that's crap.
 
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#134
#134
bamawriter said:
If they do, then good for them. I've long been an advocate for players getting more than just a comped education.
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Of course your have. I mean let's be real you are one of the dirtiest programs in all of college sports. I dare you to tell me I am wrong .
 
#137
#137
bamawriter said:
I question whether or not this is going to survive an appeal.
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I agree BW, but the appeal will take time and bring more momentum both ways. Regardless, its union lawyers wet dream come true.

And from what I understand....the decision was made by a "regional director"....not yet heard by major powers that be in DC....thank god:)
 
#138
#138
There is a simple answer to this. Eliminate all financial assistance and make college athletics amateur. I would rather watch kids that care about the game than someone in it for the money.

When the schools have to absorb the cost of potential concussion lawsuits from the players not included in the NFL suits you will have a total collapse of college athletics.

The result of this will be the NFL will have to develop farm leagues and these players will find a new lifestyle that is nowhere near their current status.
 
#140
#140
utvols88 said:
You have constantly said they are breaking the law. What law exactly? This "every law" answer is not acceptable. Provide the statutes please or stop claiming they are breaking the law.
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I doubt he knows the law. He has contradicted himself several times. He was also oblivious of the fact that the earnings by the players would be susceptible to tax.
 
#141
#141
fade route said:
Can a union demand it's players not be obligated to attend classes? I mean, unions will have he leverage won't they? Just asking. I just don't get the thinking of the "pay the players" crowd. I think it's a generational thing - the current one honks society owes them a paycheck for simply breathing in and out. Sad.
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when you are dealing with a union and contracted employees, all those details get worked out in the negotiation of the contract (collective bargaining agreement).
 
#143
#143
Kinda sickening.

If I ran NWU and had a union for 18-22 year-olds shoved down my throat, it would be the end of the football program, in the blink of an eye.

One of you guys went in this direction already and I couldn't agree more. The players are useful idiots to who's really making a play here - the national unions. They see big money and want in. Convince a bunch of idiot kids they're being unfairly treated, there you go.

Gotta laugh. Some of the most fortunate kids on the face of the planet, but they've bought into victimhood.

Will it ruin CFB? I think so. But the unions don't give a damn, anymore than they do about Detroit, or unsustainable pension plans, or screwing the public for outrageous benefits.

Amazing that they consistently get away with villifying people who ultimately are forced to fund their immoral approach to life. Sad.
 
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#144
#144
tango said:
when you are dealing with a union and contracted employees, all those details get worked out in the negotiation of the contract (collective bargaining agreement).
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And when negotiations fail and the season starts?

Lost revenue from ticket holders that will have to be refunded. Lost revenue that goes into other areas of the university. Players lose the potential to go on to the NFL since they cannot play and show the world their talents.

Not even going to go into how much of a monkey wrench this would throw into scheduling.

Now on a tangent, who wants to bet this NWU QB goes into court to demand back pay for the season(s) he played already?
 
#145
#145
Of course, universities will be able to demand performance for paid services. Can you imagine, "Hey kid, I will see 100 yds rushing Saturday or you can go sell it to Northwest Tecumseh State Community College.":crazy::)
 
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#146
#146
If this BS would go to Washington and get passed......boy oh boy. Think the NCAA is weak now....what if this gets passed? We need a stronger and less corrupt NCAA as well as all Universities paying for medical insurance plans for players covering injuries.
This generation of young folks have been taught that they are entitled...Sad
 
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#147
#147
of course, the ruling is going to be appealed, and quite frankly, I expect it to be overturned...

more than anything, this might have been the very wake-up call the NCAA needed to get on board with giving these kids some kind of decent allowance. 300 lb linemen can't live on $25 per diem.. they just can't... or they won't be 300 lb linemen for long.

this ruling, if allowed to stand, creates a lot of headache ... to put it mildly.

once you reclassify these "student-athletes" as employees of the university, then you have to totally change your mindset on this. as "football employees" they are effectively no different from "university janitorial staff" (for example) in the greater scheme of things.

the university could certainly negotiate a contract with a football players' union that yes, they would have to enroll as students at the college, they'd have to go to class, maintain a certain grade point average, etc. They could just as easily opt not even to negotiate that much. The university, after all, doesn't have to require that the janitorial staff enroll as students or go to class.. actually, the university -- as an employer -- wouldn't even have to require that [certain of] its employees have a high school diploma.

Additionally, they could negotiate that the "football employee" not even graduate, and could continue to play football at the college in a multi-year contract.

Why not?

Of course, if the NCAA is still involved somehow, then I envision there are still going to be some degree of control over what can/can't be agreed to in the contract. But next up, you have schools colluding simply to get out from under the NCAA altogether and create private/semi-pro-type leagues.

Maybe this would work for private schools, but I'm not sure about further complications that might exist with public schools.

Public money funds public schools.. so you're going to have public money funding the construction of weight facilities, football fields, etc. for a semi-pro team? Hrmmm...

Since this is a football team union we're talking about, can I join the union as a non-player? If it's a semi-pro team, why not take it 'public' and allow folks to buy stock in the team?

.... so... this ruling opens up a massive can of worms and as I said, I expect it to be overturned on appeal.
 
#148
#148
Huge decision. I love college football, but ultimately I can't blame the players demanding a cut of the billions the NCAA generates each year even if that means the end of relevant college basketball and football...which I think it will. Because of Federal law the NCAA will have to pay every employee from every sport the same amount, but only football and some men's basketball programs generate revenue, so ultimately if upheld this will end the NCAA as the football players and bball players would make a lot more through minor league systems that would surely be created.

Even if this is not upheld, many more similar cases will this will pop up and eventually one will be upheld. It is inevitable. The NCAA had a good run profiting off of the backs of these football and basketball players.

America is unique in that college sports is its main system for developing young athletes (aside from baseball where it's a mix between minor leagues and college). Look at Europe and how they develop their young basketball and soccer players...hint: it's not through college. The players do get better developed through minor league systems than they do in college and if education is the concern minor leagues can offer contracts that offer to pay for some or all of college like minor league baseball already does, so players that don't pan out can take advantage of it.

But football is unique because young players, aside from a once in a blue moon players like Adrian Peterson, cannot play in the NFL until at least a few years after high school because they need to get bigger, stronger, and more experienced. This is why a minor league football system would still generate a lot of interest because the future NFL stars will play in the minors unlike other minor leagues that no one cares about. The NFL has no interest in a minor league...this means that some other league for the college age players will still remain but it won't be through colleges and the players will get paid...or maybe the NFL will change it's mind and see the revenue the NCAA made and create a minor league system.
 
#149
#149
GrowVol said:
If this BS would go to Washington and get passed......boy oh boy. Think the NCAA is weak now....what if this gets passed? We need a stronger and less corrupt NCAA as well as all Universities paying for medical insurance plans for players covering injuries.
This generation of young folks have been taught that they are entitled...Sad
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No different than their parents :)
 
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#150
#150
when you are dealing with a union and contracted employees, all those details get worked out in the negotiation of the contract (collective bargaining agreement).
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Grand Vol said:
And when negotiations fail and the season starts?
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When negotiations fail and the season starts, then you have no football... at least, not with contracted employee-players.

Do you not remember "scab football" in the NFL back in the late 80s?

Lost revenue from ticket holders that will have to be refunded.
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Yes, I'd presume that would happen.

Lost revenue that goes into other areas of the university.
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Presumably so, yes.

Players lose the potential to go on to the NFL since they cannot play and show the world their talents.
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I don't think that would be the case. If you can't get a contract signed, then you could "quit" the university and go try to negotiate with another university. This is how you have "locals" with unions... every university would become "local 231" or "local 225" or whatever.. just another numbered local, all represented by, say, the Teamsters.

So, no contract with this union at this college? Quit. Go fish at another college and join their local.

Nobody would be forcing these kids to be "hired" at the university. Quit anytime you like. Try to get hired on with another employer.

This is how it works in the real world, too.

Not even going to go into how much of a monkey wrench this would throw into scheduling.
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Agreed...


But all of your questions are simply irrelevant to the topic. Yes, many bad things as you bring up could very likely happen... but such is the nature of the beast.
 
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