Players can Unionize!!!

[onevol74]

Huge decision. I love college football, but ultimately I can't blame the players demanding a cut of the billions the NCAA generates each year even if that means the end of relevant college basketball and football...which I think it will. Because of Federal law the NCAA will have to pay every employee from every sport the same amount, but only football and some men's basketball programs generate revenue, so ultimately if upheld this will end the NCAA as the football players and bball players would make a lot more through minor league systems that would surely be created.

Even if this is not upheld, many more similar cases will this will pop up and eventually one will be upheld. It is inevitable. The NCAA had a good run profiting off of the backs of these football and basketball players.

America is unique in that college sports is its main system for developing young athletes (aside from baseball where it's a mix between minor leagues and college). Look at Europe and how they develop their young basketball and soccer players...hint: it's not through college. The players do get better developed through minor league systems than they do in college and if education is the concern minor leagues can offer contracts that offer to pay for some or all of college like minor league baseball already does, so players that don't pan out can take advantage of it.

But football is unique because young players, aside from a once in a blue moon players like Adrian Peterson, cannot play in the NFL until at least a few years after high school because they need to get bigger, stronger, and more experienced. This is why a minor league football system would still generate a lot of interest because the future NFL stars will play in the minors unlike other minor leagues that no one cares about. The NFL has no interest in a minor league...this means that some other league for the college age players will still remain but it won't be through colleges and the players will get paid...or maybe the NFL will change it's mind and see the revenue the NCAA made and create a minor league system.

Fans will not pay the same kind of money to watch football and basketball farm leagues. The game itself has profited from NCAA sponsorship in the past. The game would suffer without that sponsorship.

 

[tango]

Of course, universities will be able to demand performance for paid services. Can you imagine, "Hey kid, I will see 100 yds rushing Saturday or you can go sell it to Northwest Tecumseh State Community College.":crazy:

They can demand whatever they want... but a player wouldn't have to agree to it. It's a collectively bargained agreement... so whatever both sides AGREE to and sign off on, that's it.

You're not going to get a contract that says "100 yds on Saturday vs Bama or you're fired" ... you're going to see "100 yds on Saturday vs Bama and you'll get a $1000 bonus."

 

[tango]

Fans will not pay the same kind of money to watch football and basketball farm leagues. The game itself has profited from NCAA sponsorship in the past. The game would suffer without that sponsorship.

Agreed.

Seems to me not a real lot of thought on the full possible ramifications went into this... and I thought Northwestern students were supposed to be really smart...

Kids these days... careful what you ask for... you might get it. Right up the @$#%.

 

[Vol4life25]

At least we win.

Your program comes off probation this Summer, and what did you get out of it?

You didn't win much of s**t last year

 

[GrowVol]

No different than their parents

Yeah right!...

 

[bamawriter]

You didn't win much of s**t last year

I'm not going to embarass you any further since there are people in this thread who are capable of intelligent conversation on a serious subject I'm really interested in, and there will be many more threads for you to show your ignorance. The fact that you're trying so hard says all that needs to be said.

 

[Grand Vol]

When negotiations fail and the season starts, then you have no football... at least, not with contracted employee-players.

Do you not remember "scab football" in the NFL back in the late 80s?

I do, and I remember how much it sucked.

Yes, I'd presume that would happen.

And how much do individual tickets cost? Season tickets? How much is a university going to shell back out in pre-ordered tickets? Lost merchandise sales after people get fed up and stop buying gear?

Presumably so, yes.

Not presumably. You take a college like Alabama or Texas that runs close or over $100 million a year in direct sales of products and tickets. That all isn't going to athletics you know. So what other areas of the universities are going to suffer because someone was greedy?

I don't think that would be the case. If you can't get a contract signed, then you could "quit" the university and go try to negotiate with another university. This is how you have "locals" with unions... every university would become "local 231" or "local 225" or whatever.. just another numbered local, all represented by, say, the Teamsters.

So, no contract with this union at this college? Quit. Go fish at another college and join their local.

Your key word there is "try" in negotiations. Who says anyone other than Oklahoma City Community College would accept you? And what happens from that promising career you might have had now?

Nobody would be forcing these kids to be "hired" at the university. Quit anytime you like. Try to get hired on with another employer.

This is how it works in the real world, too.

And how many employers will these "student athletes" be able to go through before having to move on in life?

But all of your questions are simply irrelevant to the topic. Yes, many bad things as you bring up could very likely happen... but such is the nature of the beast.

Entirely relevant to this topic. This was motivated by greed, pure and simple. Again, I ask the question of why the United Steelworkers represented this case? It certainly was NOT because they felt like doing a good deed for the day. They saw dollar signs dangling over the heads of these kids and knew this was their chance to get a slice of the pie. It costs them nothing to represent the case, but they stood a chance to make millions off this deal.

Greed, pure and simple.

 

[MedicT]

They can demand whatever they want... but a player wouldn't have to agree to it. It's a collectively bargained agreement... so whatever both sides AGREE to and sign off on, that's it.

You're not going to get a contract that says "100 yds on Saturday vs Bama or you're fired" ... you're going to see "100 yds on Saturday vs Bama and you'll get a $1000 bonus."

Maybe not to that extreme, but if I'm not terribly mistaken professional (paid) athletes are released on a regular basis for substandard performance.

 

[secund2nun]

Fans will not pay the same kind of money to watch football and basketball farm leagues. The game itself has profited from NCAA sponsorship in the past. The game would suffer without that sponsorship.

You are right...they won't generate as much, but the players will get paid more through a farm system then they currently do through the NCAA and that farm system will still generate a lot of revenue. Minor league baseball generates nowhere near the revenue that NCAA football does, yet their players get paid a lot more than NCAA football players do. Even though technically it will be a farm system I don't think the NFL will own it so it will probably just be a separate independent age restricted football league...maybe ages 18-25 or something like that. That's what I think will happen eventually.

 

[TheDeeble]

It certainly was NOT because they felt like doing a good deed for the day. They saw dollar signs dangling over the heads of these kids and knew this was their chance to get a slice of the pie. It costs them nothing to represent the case, but they stood a chance to make millions off this deal.

Greed, pure and simple.

That was my first thought. Some union organization sees the opportunity for money and are trying to get in the right people's ears to make it happen.

 

[Burger]

Maybe not to that extreme, but if I'm not terribly mistaken professional (paid) athletes are released on a regular basis for substandard performance.

Happens all the time. Saban would thrive if this happened. He'd just start shredding up contracts when guys don't perform.

 

[TheDeeble]

Minor league baseball generates nowhere near the revenue that NCAA football does, yet their players get paid a lot more than NCAA football players do.

Just a question as I don't know. Are minor league player salaries completely funded by minor league team they play for or are they partially funded by their major league affiliate?

 

[Burger]

Just a question as I don't know. Are minor league player salaries completely funded by minor league team they play for or are they partially funded by their major league affiliate?

Funded by the minor league team. The teams are hired by contracts to be a minor league club.

 

[Burger]

You are right...they won't generate as much, but the players will get paid more through a farm system then they currently do through the NCAA and that farm system will still generate a lot of revenue. Minor league baseball generates nowhere near the revenue that NCAA football does, yet their players get paid a lot more than NCAA football players do. Even though technically it will be a farm system I don't think the NFL will own it so it will probably just be a separate independent age restricted football league...maybe ages 18-25 or something like that. That's what I think will happen eventually.

Semipro football already exists. It'll blow up when colleges close up shop.

 

[bamawriter]

Maybe not to that extreme, but if I'm not terribly mistaken professional (paid) athletes are released on a regular basis for substandard performance.

Already happens all over the country. Schollies are a one year deal.

 

[onevol74]

You are right...they won't generate as much, but the players will get paid more through a farm system then they currently do through the NCAA and that farm system will still generate a lot of revenue. Minor league baseball generates nowhere near the revenue that NCAA football does, yet their players get paid a lot more than NCAA football players do. Even though technically it will be a farm system I don't think the NFL will own it so it will probably just be a separate independent age restricted football league...maybe ages 18-25 or something like that. That's what I think will happen eventually.

Just so you know how relevant this farm league will be, I can tell you how many games UT won over the last 10 years, but I do not have a clue how many games the Tennessee Smokies won ANY of the last 10 years.

 

[Bms4880]

According to a sports attorney on NPR:

1. This only applies to private universities, not public universities, and the vast majority of FBS teams are public.

2. If a private university starts paying its players, the NCAA will disqualify them from competing.

3. Thus, the most this particular ruling means is that players can unionize to demand stipend increases and more money for players who suffer from concussions or career-ending injuries.

 

[SEC-GoalTenda]

"Son, go run a lap."

"Coach, you are going to have to talk to the union rep about that."

"Somebody get me a Gatorade. I have the option to get 30 carries on Saturday, a man has to hydrate."

 

[RikidyBones]

You are right...they won't generate as much, but the players will get paid more through a farm system then they currently do through the NCAA and that farm system will still generate a lot of revenue. Minor league baseball generates nowhere near the revenue that NCAA football does, yet their players get paid a lot more than NCAA football players do. Even though technically it will be a farm system I don't think the NFL will own it so it will probably just be a separate independent age restricted football league...maybe ages 18-25 or something like that. That's what I think will happen eventually.

The average minor league player only gets paid around 45k. They aren't in 6 digits and they live their sport too.

 

[secund2nun]

Just so you know how relevant this farm league will be, I can tell you how many games UT won over the last 10 years, but I do not have a clue how many games the Tennessee Smokies won ANY of the last 10 years.

No doubt it would never compare to college football. I'd hope that most players stay local in their own state at least so we would get a local pride thing going on.

There was that professional football league a few years ago where you had to go to college in that state to be on the team's roster. It was called the All American Football League. It had team Florida, team Alabama, team Michigan etc, but the league never got started. I different version of that league could be you had to be born or grew up in the state to be on the team.

 

[TrueOrange]

its not the end of college football...its the end of the NCAA involved with big time football...now the power conferences will join together,set a salary cap, and they will become the minor leagues for the NFL more than they were before...probably expanded rosters as well...

1)This ruling only effects private universities at the moment.

2) The conferences aren't breaking away to start their own organization

3) And one of the debated issues with all this is that there would never be a cap to this, monetary-wise.

 

[Grand Vol]

That was my first thought. Some union organization sees the opportunity for money and are trying to get in the right people's ears to make it happen.

Yep, and these young kids have zero idea what they are getting into.

"Hey man, I didn't know about this union dues thing. I don't want to be a part of this anymore."

 

[TrueOrange]

This will never happen

The NCAA BOD is made up of University officials

But but the fans say they want it to happen!

 

[Grand Vol]

According to a sports attorney on NPR:

1. This only applies to private universities, not public universities, and the vast majority of FBS teams are public.

2. If a private university starts paying its players, the NCAA will disqualify them from competing.

3. Thus, the most this particular ruling means is that players can unionize to demand stipend increases and more money for players who suffer from concussions or career-ending injuries.

1. For now...

2. Has the NCAA made this announcement? Curious, not argumentative.

3. As they are now considered "employees" of the university, whether private or public, they now will have to be paid at least minimum wage. And that's a federal law.

 

[TrueOrange]

And that's the point. This little ****head that has zero eligibility left over has not considered the long term ramifications of what this entails. There will be unintended consequences that aren't even thought of right now that will come about.

Good point. How much of these things have just been pushed for / decided by people that no longer play and want to make a buck? (or well, perceived more than just a buck, but yeah)