Police shooting black man in the back ... again (Kenosha, WI)

#626
#626
LouderVol said:
Woof.
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Not my case, but a hearing I witnessed:

Woman gets stopped.
Male officer begins to search her and goes to reach into her pocket.
Woman brushes his hand away. (Whatever she did, it was not apparent that she did anything from the body camera video. It may have been visible from the camera in his car.)
She is then placed in cuffs and searched against her will.
Her attorney puts her on the stand and she says “I brushed his hand away because I felt violated by having his hand in that proximity to my [crotch].”

Judge: no justification for the stop; no justification for reaching in the pocket; however, her actions were unlawful resistance. Her arrest for resisting was valid. The search incident to that arrest was valid.

I have no idea whether it was appealed or what happened if it was.
 
#628
#628
hog88 said:
I guess I needed to clarify my question. I'm asking about what options such as letting him go, billy club to the head/knees did the cops have and what potential liabilities/exposure would that bring upon them and the department.
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In this case, as I have said before, a Billy club is much more justified than the end shooting. That's proper escalation imo. Tackle didnt work. Taser didnt work. There should be another step, in this specific situation, before shooting.

Yeah it comes with some risk of liability but it's got to be less than shooting him. And it's much more in line with the level of actions we see in the video.
 
#631
#631
volbeast33 said:
What would you have done?
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Tried tackling him again. Grabbing a shirt isnt enough.

It's not the end result that bothers me. It's the steps that lead to the worst outcome. Personally I would rather be dead than paralyzed but not everyone may feel that way.

Imo the cops have some responsibility for those steps. And I think they were wrong in the order of the steps they took.
 
#634
#634
volbeast33 said:
Isn’t there plenty of things to do with architecture that the average citizen cannot do
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Depends on the municipality. In big cities there is a good bit I could do that others cant. Small towns wont care (have as many laws) as much.

But in either if I dont take the proper steps and there is a bad outcome, with someone getting hurt, I can be liable.

That's not unreasonable to me. I dont think it should be unreasonable for the cops in this situation either.
 
#636
#636
RockyTop85 said:
Not my case, but a hearing I witnessed:

Woman gets stopped.
Male officer begins to search her and goes to reach into her pocket.
Woman brushes his hand away. (Whatever she did, it was not apparent that she did anything from the body camera video. It may have been visible from the camera in his car.)
She is then placed in cuffs and searched against her will.
Her attorney puts her on the stand and she says “I brushed his hand away because I felt violated by having his hand in that proximity to my [crotch].”

Judge: no justification for the stop; no justification for reaching in the pocket; however, her actions were unlawful resistance. Her arrest for resisting was valid. The search incident to that arrest was valid.

I have no idea whether it was appealed or what happened if it was.
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I hate hate hate that resisting arrest can be a stand alone crime. Especially on something like that.
 
#637
#637
RockyTop85 said:
Not my case, but a hearing I witnessed:

Woman gets stopped.
Male officer begins to search her and goes to reach into her pocket.
Woman brushes his hand away. (Whatever she did, it was not apparent that she did anything from the body camera video. It may have been visible from the camera in his car.)
She is then placed in cuffs and searched against her will.
Her attorney puts her on the stand and she says “I brushed his hand away because I felt violated by having his hand in that proximity to my [crotch].”

Judge: no justification for the stop; no justification for reaching in the pocket; however, her actions were unlawful resistance. Her arrest for resisting was valid. The search incident to that arrest was valid.

I have no idea whether it was appealed or what happened if it was.
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Yeah, that is insane.
 
#638
#638
LouderVol said:
Again what does their training say? To me it seems like a huge breach of everything to allow someone to go for a weapon in that situation.

We are already talking about the cops shooting the guy, tackling him and causing a concussion is a whole lot lower of an issue. And believe me I am not belittling what a concussion can do to a person.

To me it seems jacked up that the cops can get away with messing up for however much of the situation, but as soon as the civilian messes up lethal force is applicable and good bye rights of the citizen.

Make them not cops. Think of it as just a shooting between civilians and it's clear who is in the wrong. Not sure why one side being cops 100% clears them. That's way too much jackboot appeasement for me to like it.

Again not sure why cops are defended if they allowed the situation to get to the worse possible outcome. If the public is supposed to trust them they have to be the professionals in the matter. This did not strike me as professional behavior. Tackling/handcuffing/knee in the back would have been.
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Reaching for a weapon is not "messing up."
 
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#642
#642
allvol123 said:
You have cops tackle him and wrestle him to the ground and it videoed, it is getting airplay.

It becomes why are they assaulting a black man? He was just calmly walking away minding his own business.
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Disagree. Showing a video of him resisting, then getting tackled and handcuffed, it isn't getting airplay. What other videos are out there garnering national attention because a black guy is getting cuffed on the ground after an altercation?

Being shot 7 times in the back, paralyzed and fighting for his life is why this is a story. Floyd begging for his life and dying on camera is why that was a story. Breonna Taylor being shot in her own apartment is why that is a story. Again, race plays a part whether it should or not, but just getting thrown on the ground after a scuffle and getting handcuffed isn't getting airplay. If you can point me to examples where this is happening, white or black suspect I would appreciate it.
 
#643
#643
The part I can’t wrap my head around is...how, if you know, there are three, young, kids in the car, the gun is drawn, follow dad around to the drivers’ side, then fire seven or eight shots, basically into the car. While the kids have to watch.

I can’t imagine this is how they are trained to handle these type situations.
 
#645
#645
Credo said:
You nailed it. This is not a war between races, this is a war between good and evil. Racism does not exist, it has always been a spiritual battle
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I take it that you listen to Jesse Lee Peterson as well? Because those are his exact words!
 
#647
#647
rjd970 said:
Disagree. Showing a video of him resisting, then getting tackled and handcuffed, it isn't getting airplay. What other videos are out there garnering national attention because a black guy is getting cuffed on the ground after an altercation?

Being shot 7 times in the back, paralyzed and fighting for his life is why this is a story. Floyd begging for his life and dying on camera is why that was a story. Breonna Taylor being shot in her own apartment is why that is a story. Again, race plays a part whether it should or not, but just getting thrown on the ground after a scuffle and getting handcuffed isn't getting airplay. If you can point me to examples where this is happening, white or black suspect I would appreciate it.
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Those are stories because the purported racist angle gets attention. Not a one you mention has any verifiable racist underpinnings, but they are 100% portrayed as racial acts.

Where is the media coverage of some white guy killed by police? Are you claiming that doesnt happen? I know you're not claiming that. It happens, but the story cant be manipulated, so it doesnt carry weight.
 
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#648
#648
VolStrom said:
Sure sounds like you have passed over to the dark side and are supporting criminals over the police. Good luck with Biden and the "squad" with their "moderate" values.
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So you believe "your side" is above any all reproach and cant get any better?

Its constructive criticism. If you cant handle it, you or the cops, you arent fit for the job. Pretty much any job. Yet alone one that puts the power of life and death in your hands.
 
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#649
#649
LouderVol said:
So you believe "your side" is above any all reproach and cant get any better?

Its constructive criticism. If you cant handle it, you or the cops, you arent fit for the job. Pretty much any job. Yet alone one that puts the power of life and death in your hands.
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I consider myself a libertarian and have often been critical of policing.

That said, I dont have much sympathy for someone choosing to completely disregard commands. You can hate the commands, disagree with them, etc. But that isnt the time to turnaround and make your hands disappear.
 
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#650
#650
volbeast33 said:
They tazed him..... tackled him.... commanded he stopped.... he didn’t get shot till he reached in his car
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So because that guy resisted, all people being detained should be shot first assuming they're going to do the same?
 
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