Potential shipping strike on the East Coast.

They are monopolizing the jobs. There are plenty of workers available at even half of the current compensation.

If there are plenty of workers as you claim, how could they monopolize the work force?

They are on strike, go hire those workers.

"monopolized" under law is kind of a general statement, but the devil is in the details i.e. complex. The union doesn't have a monopoly on the work force based on your own comments. Generally, unions are not subject to the Sherman Act, but even if they were... the workers could still refuse to go back to work.

Those workers can't be forced to go to work. Skilled workers imo are starting be going down the dinosaur (going extinct) route as the older workers retire. We have a whole generation+ that really can't take care of themselves.
 
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Haven’t read this thread, so I apologize if it has already been discussed, but:

Given the destruction in wNC/ ETn. Anything these Jack holes do that cuts the supply chain sucks extra bad.

Makes me almost root for the automation at the ports.

I hope they at least have the decency to unload the body bags that are going to be needed for Katrina-in-the-sky.
 
Haven’t read this thread, so I apologize if it has already been discussed, but:

Given the destruction in wNC/ ETn. Anything these Jack holes do that cuts the supply chain sucks extra bad.

Makes me almost root for the automation at the ports.

I hope they at least have the decency to unload the body bags that are going to be needed for Katrina-in-the-sky.
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What part do you think can be automated that isn't currently? What is the costs of that automation? Does that automation actually reduce head count and at what costs? Who do you think fixes the automation? Who do you think implements the automation? Etc.

They are fairly complex and unique processes, I can tell you that.
 
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The Union and the ports both know that this pay demand will force automation. Higher labor cost shorten the payback cycle for a capital investment. Ultimately I think that will be the issue that is key for both sides
 
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What part do you think can be automated that isn't currently? What is the costs of that automation? Does that automation actually reduce head count and at what costs? Who do you think fixes the automation? Who do you think implements the automation? Etc.

They are fairly complex and unique processes, I can tell you that.
I honestly don’t have the answers to any of these questions.

I try to be thoughtful when I post, but I just found out about more deaths in the mountains, and In this instance I posted out of emotion.
 
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The Union and the ports both know that this pay demand will force automation. Higher labor cost shorten the payback cycle for a capital investment. Ultimately I think that will be the issue that is key for both sides

I would say it could make it worse because you need even more skilled labor and to build that out is not necessarily a one size fits all solution.
 
I honestly don’t have the answers to any of these questions.

I try to be thoughtful when I post, but I just found out about more deaths in the mountains, and In this instance I posted out of emotion.

No, my bad, I came off as strong. (sorry)

There is automation always going into the ports, in the past I would say some of it wasn't for good. My father was a marine supervisor down in N.O., he basically ran operations for one company. He could get me in with the longshoreman union during holiday breaks when I was in college so I am a little familiar with how they operated back in the day. I would even help him with some of the computer software as nobody in company even knew anything. (more complex at this stage) I can say this, some of the software they use even 10-15 years ago was piss poor and probably cost more money than it saved.

More automation for this stuff just mean more skill on some levels, I think its very hard to compare to say an Amazon warehouse. Sure there are similarities but each Amazon warehouse can be all built the same or similar.
 
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What part do you think can be automated that isn't currently? What is the costs of that automation? Does that automation actually reduce head count and at what costs? Who do you think fixes the automation? Who do you think implements the automation? Etc.

They are fairly complex and unique processes, I can tell you that.

The fact that the union is adamantly opposed to automation in any form suggests there are parts that can be automated.

Per an interview with the LA Port administrator they are more automated than E coast ports and they've actually increased # of employees due to the ability to move more volume.

A position of no new automation is short-term thinking
 
The fact that the union is adamantly opposed to automation in any form suggests there are parts that can be automated.

Per an interview with the LA Port administrator they are more automated than E coast ports and they've actually increased # of employees due to the ability to move more volume.

A position of no new automation is short-term thinking


Agree. I would say the ports have been going to automation for all our lives.... some of it good, some it not so much. At the end of the day though, someone has to work.... there is only some much that can be realistically be eliminated.... even the machines need to be fixed.

People keep telling me how computers, automation, and AI will eliminate everyone's job....yet we get Window errors on my PC, we can't get concrete poured, and nobody seems to know how to properly put on a roof. My guess I will be waiting my whole life... it actually seems to be getting worse.... no skilled labor and barely unskilled labor. We went to Walmart, took 30 minutes to get checked out, when I was a kid it took about 5 minutes.
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I am not at all saying that the dock companies should roll over and give them everything they want. And these guys might very well have outkicked their coverage by turning down the 50% increase offered. Time will tell. I do find the exhibited sanctimony aimed at these guys under the auspices that they owe the rest of the country something more than a bit hypocritical. If they were to sign a contract and are shortly automated out of work, will the rest of the country chip in and ensure that their kids don't go hungry? You know that we won't. So what exactly do they owe you? And they are not responsible for inflation. As I said before, if they are so essential to the operation of the country, their contracts should be placed under a structure similar to the RLA where their contracts never 'expire' but become 'amendable'. That way they cannot strike until exhausting a ludicrous number of hoops. It might take a huge quid to get that however.

It also took me a long time to get to where I am now regarding pay. I am guessing that the pay is not the real issue, but rather the automation aspect of all this. Since management is apparently dug in, it seems obvious that their intent is to automate those jobs. So then, what do these guys have to lose? You gonna feed their kids? At some point, workers realize that their jobs are gone anyway, so why not burn it to the ground on the way out? The sad fact though is that the union leadership and corporate management will still get handsomely paid, and the workers' kids will still go hungry anyway.

One more question: How much increase in pay and benefits does one have to remain under in order to not be considered "greedy"?
to your last question, if the economy is booming, and everyone doing good, they can ask for whatever and I wouldn't consider it really greedy.

during an economic downturn like we are currently in, I would anything over inflation. unless they have some metric to prove that value.

I will ask you the same question for them. Lets say they get their 77%, are they going to pay for the meals and kids of the people who lose their job from the coming supply disruption? you act like they are giving something to the nation they aren't getting in return which is simply not the case.

My profession, and the entire industry is very much tied to the supply chain. We just laid off about 10% of our company. we have owner's, and lenders expressing doubt arising from these strikes from the relatively few projects we have going. we are in a good spot currently, but it wouldn't take too many projects shuttering before even more people at my fire are looking for work.

automation and advances in technology have always taken jobs. I doubt too many of the union guys worried about automation are arguing to go back to loading everything by hand. No machines what so ever.
 
Well here is the real deal. Due to this and the hurricane we are being told in healthcare that we should “ration” our use of IV fluids as the are now on national back order. So yeah, that strike is literally now costing lives. Suck it port workers
 
Well here is the real deal. Due to this and the hurricane we are being told in healthcare that we should “ration” our use of IV fluids as the are now on national back order. So yeah, that strike is literally now costing lives. Suck it port workers

People don't actually get healthcare because its too expensive i.e. literally costing lives.
 
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Yeah well I took care of five illegals this week that got it on my dime

Oh I agree to a certain degree but my comments still stands. We have about as many medical professionals complaining about the medical industrial scam as stood up to all the fake masks and covid takes.
 

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