Praying Before Game WILL NOT BE STOPPED AT UT (merged)

#1,076
#1,076
PowerSweep said:
Since we're doing bible verses w Psalms let's focus on the embarrassing ones...like this one...since you guys want god in the stadium and he is repulsed by the handicapped why risk offending him?

Leviticus 21

16 The LORD said to Moses, 17 “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.
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God only hated cripples under the Old Covenant.
 
#1,078
#1,078
ukvols said:
Fear.

If there is no God, then we all have nothing to look forward to or fear after death.

Some atheists are probably quite insecure in their beliefs, because if the majority that believes in a God is right, then, ...

So, the sight of religion may contribute to the insecurity of some atheists. So, they want to rid the world of religion everywhere they have to see it. So, we have organizations like the Freedom From Religion Foundation imposing their beliefs on others.
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I have no doubt that fear of death and a quest for immortality is the overwhelming reason for the invention of religion. None whatsoever.
 
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#1,081
#1,081
what I have wondered for years, why do people care so much about what others are doing. Its never bothered me if some prayed. it never bothered me when someone asked me what church I went to. (I would reply none I don't believe in a god). The only time, Religon bothered me was when others tried to force it on me. (with that said) I think it would be sad if prayer was taken out before the game for the players. (that wanted to pray). it never hurt anyone to bow there head.
 
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#1,082
#1,082
The best thing i have ever heard during a sermon and its so true is, "I would rather believe in God and worship God and find out there is no God than go through life without believing and then there turns out to be a God."
 
#1,083
#1,083
PowerSweep, the examples of scripture you have give have legitimate explanations and insight into the nature of God. The reason the average Christian is not prepared to answer those questions on demand is because they have answered those questions for themselves in many cases, years and years ago. And it would take a whole lot of time and explanation of other spiritual principles to come to a place of understanding. And this just isn't the time or place to have legitimate conversations about those questions. Maybe you could ask those questions again in a different thread in the pub or something. And I would only say that you should do that if your really are curious and have an open mind as you say you do.
 
#1,084
#1,084
PowerSweep said:
I have no doubt that fear of death and a quest for immortality is the overwhelming reason for the invention of religion. None whatsoever.
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That honestly sounds like the go-to response whenever someone questions the security of atheists in their beliefs.

I'll make the understatement of the thread that there's no middle ground when an atheist and a Christian debate the existence of a God.
 
#1,085
#1,085
alwaysvol said:
what I have wondered for years, why do people care so much about what others are doing. Its never bothered me if some prayed. it never bothered me when someone asked me what church I went to. (I would reply none I don't believe in a god). only time, Religon bothered me when others tried to force it on me. (with that said) I think it would be sad if prayer was taken out before the game for the players. (that wanted to pray). it never hurt anyone to bow there head.
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It's not a battle I'd fight either...I've just rolled my eyes, thought, "why are we still doing this?", been respectful, and ignored it. Most folks are like that even if it's an imposition, otherwise this would have been challenged years ago...the relevant court cases are from 1997 and 2000. But it is a principle I believe in, and frankly, it beats talking about the Vols right now.
 
#1,086
#1,086
alwaysvol said:
what I have wondered for years, why do people care so much about what others are doing. Its never bothered me if some prayed. it never bothered me when someone asked me what church I went to. (I would reply none I don't believe in a god). The only time, Religon bothered me was when others tried to force it on me. (with that said) I think it would be sad if prayer was taken out before the game for the players. (that wanted to pray). it never hurt anyone to bow there head.
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I rarely fool with the Like button on VN, but I used it here.
 
#1,087
#1,087
gregmaynard2 said:
The best thing i have ever heard during a sermon and its so true is, "I would rather believe in God and worship God and find out there is no God than go through life without believing and then there turns out to be a God."
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Whoever thinks this way doesn't truely believe in God or they wouldn't be trying to justify it. The underlying motivation is the most basic of animal instincts...to avoid pain and seek pleasure.
 
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#1,088
#1,088
PowerSweep said:
Because you want to blast it over the loudspeaker. You say I have quoted things out of context and yet last night you admitted you found the Numbers passage troubling.

Give me a context since I take it out of context where the Isaac-Abraham sacrifice story can better be understood within the context of a loving god.

Hate? Why would I hate you? I (and others) in this thread have been told that I was going to hell, leading the destruction of this country, its values, eternal damnation, much worse in this thread. Haven't complained once. This is the grown up table.

But no I don't respect your beliefs any more than I respect those of say scientology or Islam or anything else supernatural. But your right to believe and worship as you wish? Fight like heck for that...you just can't do it in this arena.
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I did indeed find the Numbers story troubling mainly because of graphic examples given and then I read about the customs in that time etc and understood it much better. I could understand why that was upsetting to those who were commenting on it but it was not reality.

I have not read your take on the Abraham/Issac story but I will and will comment later. Missed that one. :)

For those preaching hell and damnation, I was not a part nor do I condone those things. I know for a fact that "Religion" has done a lot of harm to many people and I am not exempt. I do however believe in a relationship and since I know you are not interested I will be brief concerning that. One's personal religion is their own and I know in whom I have believed. I would share the miracles and things God has done in my life but won't because as when another poster shared God healing his daughter, people belittled him for it, I will refrain.

God has been very good to me and those I love and I choose to live my life for Him. Whether or not prayer remains at Neyland really does not concern me as much as knowing that I myself am where I need to be, not only with God but with my fellow man. I apologize to you if in any way I offended you other than if that offense was because I have faith in Jesus Christ.
 
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#1,089
#1,089
gregmaynard2 said:
The best thing i have ever heard during a sermon and its so true is, "I would rather believe in God and worship God and find out there is no God than go through life without believing and then there turns out to be a God."
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That's a perfectly rational strategy. But that's not worship, that's fear. What kind of "worship" is it when it's at the point of a gun?
 
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#1,090
#1,090
Nashvol2 said:
PowerSweep, the examples of scripture you have give have legitimate explanations and insight into the nature of God. The reason the average Christian is not prepared to answer those questions on demand is because they have answered those questions for themselves in many cases, years and years ago. And it would take a whole lot of time and explanation of other spiritual principles to come to a place of understanding. And this just isn't the time or place to have legitimate conversations about those questions. Maybe you could ask those questions again in a different thread in the pub or something. And I would only say that you should do that if your really are curious and have an open mind as you say you do.
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Ehhh...I like em because generally I actually don't think they are thought about that much. You've been great to discuss this with. I have enjoyed the conversation.
 
#1,091
#1,091
Nashvol2 said:
PowerSweep, the examples of scripture you have give have legitimate explanations and insight into the nature of God. The reason the average Christian is not prepared to answer those questions on demand is because they have answered those questions for themselves in many cases, years and years ago. And it would take a whole lot of time and explanation of other spiritual principles to come to a place of understanding. And this just isn't the time or place to have legitimate conversations about those questions. Maybe you could ask those questions again in a different thread in the pub or something. And I would only say that you should do that if your really are curious and have an open mind as you say you do.
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This..thank you. I have been struggling with this and realizing that explaining it can sometimes take quite some time because it took so long for me to understand. So much to learn! :)
 
#1,094
#1,094
pattiycake said:
I did indeed find the Numbers story troubling mainly because of graphic examples given and then I read about the customs in that time etc and understood it much better. I could understand why that was upsetting to those who were commenting on it but it was not reality.

I have not read your take on the Abraham/Issac story but I will and will comment later. Missed that one. :)

For those preaching hell and damnation, I was not a part nor do I condone those things. I know for a fact that "Religion" has done a lot of harm to many people and I am not exempt. I do however believe in a relationship and since I know you are not interested I will be brief concerning that. One's personal religion is their own and I know in whom I have believed. I would share the miracles and things God has done in my life but won't because as when another poster shared God healing his daughter, people belittled him for it, I will refrain.

God has been very good to me and those I love and I choose to live my life for Him. Whether or not prayer remains at Neyland really does not concern me as much as knowing that I myself am where I need to be, not only with God but with my fellow man. I apologize to you if in any way I offended you other than if that offense was because I have faith in Jesus Christ.
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It's okay for God to order his chosen, holy people to murder thousands of children because of "the customs in that time"? Think about your own kids, if you have any. Killing them isn't okay if it's "custom."
 
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#1,095
#1,095
gregmaynard2 said:
The best thing i have ever heard during a sermon and its so true is, "I would rather believe in God and worship God and find out there is no God than go through life without believing and then there turns out to be a God."
Click to expand...

but what if you choose the wrong one or the wrong beliefs? Surely you didn't choose the god of the bible just because the punishment was the worst did you.

I love the "what if you're wrong?" argument...this a great response

Richard Dawkins - "What if you're wrong?" - YouTube
 
#1,096
#1,096
PowerSweep said:
you is generic...my best guess is something like 2/3 would keep the prayer vs moment of silence in a vote if those were the 2 options.
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Fine.

The reality is that I walked into a spirited, and sometimes heated debate that was already in progress.
 
#1,097
#1,097
PowerSweep said:
It's not a battle I'd fight either...I've just rolled my eyes, thought, "why are we still doing this?", been respectful, and ignored it. Most folks are like that even if it's an imposition, otherwise this would have been challenged years ago...the relevant court cases are from 1997 and 2000. But it is a principle I believe in, and frankly, it beats talking about the Vols right now.
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its not a battle. we just need to give each other a little more space so everyone can make there own choice. then respect each others choice.
 
#1,098
#1,098
Vercingetorix said:
It's okay for God to order his chosen, holy people to murder thousands of children because of "the customs in that time"? Come on. Think about your own kids, if you have any. Killing them isn't okay if it's "custom."
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No it wasn't concerning that. It was the customs concerning the virgins. I simply posted the one link for you concerning that because it was indeed disturbing.
 
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#1,099
#1,099
pattiycake said:
No it wasn't concerning that. It was the customs concerning the virgins. I simply posted the one link for you concerning that because it was indeed disturbing.
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I happen to think that the killing of all those kids is a lot more horrifying than how they determined which girls were virgins.
 
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