Praying Before Game WILL NOT BE STOPPED AT UT (merged)

[Orange_Crush]

That honestly sounds like the go-to response whenever someone questions the security of atheists in their beliefs.

I'll make the understatement of the thread that there's no middle ground when an atheist and a Christian debate the existence of a God.

There is a middle ground. It's agnostic, which is a much more defensible position than the atheist that believes they can prove a negative.

 

[orangedonkeypunch]

well this is the law and UT has ignored it since 1997...be glad you had 15 yrs that they let em get away with it:

In Chaudhuri v. State of Tennessee, 130 F. 3d 232 (6th Cir. 1997), the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals considered legal challenges to the allowance of prayers at univer*sity functions and the recitation of The Lord’s Prayer [5] at Tennessee State University’s (TSU) graduation ceremony. A lawsuit was filed by mechanical engi*neering professor Dilip Chaudhuri, a Hindu. He objected to a custom of prayers being offered at graduation exercises, faculty meetings, dedication ceremonies, and guest lectures at the Nashville school.

In response, TSU officials decided that all such prayers at university events would be generic and nonsectarian.[6] Still not satisfied, Chaudhuri then filed suit in federal district court. After he filed the lawsuit, TSU changed its policy to include a moment of silence, rather than a verbal prayer, at graduation exercises. The district court dismissed the claims

That's legislating from the bench. It's not law, it's precedent. Which can always be overturned.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Whoever thinks this way doesn't truely believe in God or they wouldn't be trying to justify it. The underlying motivation is the most basic of animal instincts...to avoid pain and seek pleasure.

Or another very basic response-- to respond to love.

 

[Morpheus]

I believe he was referring to Luke 17:20-21
King James Version (KJV)
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Thanks pattiycake

 

[Orange_Crush]

Want to say one thing before I hit the bed. All the religions serve a good purpose for those that need them, but we are on the precipice of a giant leap in the evolution of human consciousness, and holding on to certain practices and belief systems will no doubt hinder ones ability to adapt. Just as the Arian age of Abraham gave us the tools for the growth that was necessary for that time, the age of Pisces (Jesus) is rapidly coming to an end, along with its systems. The 2 principles Jesus delivered was 1. the kingdom of heaven is within, and 2. love is the only law. Everything else from this point forward will serve only as a stumbling block. It's time to remove the blinders that have limited our perspective, and begin to think world-centricly. Open your mind and look at the stars. Have a good night volnation.

The Age of Aquarius is back baby!

 

[ibvolman]

I agree with the removal of a formal prayer.

UT is a state supported school.

Separation of church and state is a cornerstone of our founding fathers and our country.

You're welcome to pray (or not pray) to whomever or whatever you like during a moment of silence.

The separation of church and state is found nowhere within the constitution. It is found in a letter that Jefferson wrote to a group of Baptists, in essence guaranteeing them that the Government would not impose a "State Sponsored" religion, thereby forcing everyone to worship a deity in a mandated manner. This has nothing to do with forcing people to remove prayer, but in reality protects the public practice of such. Through time the intention of the "separation" idea has been perverted for the attempt to remove all forms of religion from any public sector organization, which was never the original intent.

Separation of church and state was not to protect the state from the church, but to protect the church from the state.

 

[Morpheus]

Or another very basic response-- to respond to love.

Maybe. But the way that's written doesn't exude confidence in love or God. JMO.

 

[Morpheus]

The Age of Aquarius is back baby!

back from where?

 

[GAVol]

Here's an idea. Don't get hung up on something like a pregame prayer that really doesn't mean a whole lot and focus more on actually being a positive example for others so you might actually help somebody out or compel them to follow your lead.

A number of people screaming about a 30 second prayer are spending the next 3 hours acting like complete turds.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Maybe. But the way that's written doesn't exude confidence in love or God. JMO.

I agree completely. Just giving the perspective of a Christian that lives 1 John as opposed to fear-mongering.

 

[VolsByNature]

Proud to be a Vol, blessed to be saved.

Great day to be a Vol

 

[Orange_Crush]

back from where?

1969. Yah baby!

 

[Morpheus]

1969. Yah baby!

Ha, the 60's was another cool time to be alive. We actually experienced a shift in consciousness then as well, as we moved from the traditional modern view to the post-modern. Kinda neat that here we are about to take a second leap only 40 years later (other shifts have taken hundreds or thousands of years). We are practically already in the the Aquarian age, as the shaking off of old traditions and beliefs are evidence. Time for new wineskins, and new wine.

 

[Morpheus]

Here's an idea. Don't get hung up on something like a pregame prayer that really doesn't mean a whole lot and focus more on actually being a positive example for others so you might actually help somebody out or compel them to follow your lead.

A number of people screaming about a 30 second prayer are spending the next 3 hours acting like complete turds.

Excellent

 

[SolidRockGolf]

That's the thing. God doesn't force us one way or the other, even though He could. We are like free agents. Able to make our own decisions. We eventually have to pay for the wrong decisions, when they go against God. That punishment may not be today, next week or next year. God is love. He wants us to obey His word and live a Holy and righteous life. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind. We get in trouble when we are disobedient, just like a child gets it from his parents. The consequences could be sickness, financial, or shorting of days on earth etc.

Great post!

A lot of trouble and heartache that people have is what they brought on themselves and the same goes for blessings. If you read Deuteronomy Chapter 28 enough you will understand the importance of obedience and evetually start seeing it work in peoples lives.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Ha, the 60's was another cool time to be alive. We actually experienced a shift in consciousness then as well, as we moved from the traditional modern view to the post-modern. Kinda neat that here we are about to take a second leap only 40 years later (other shifts have taken hundreds or thousands of years). We are practically already in the the Aquarian age, as the shaking off of old traditions and beliefs are evidence. Time for new wineskins, and new wine.

Yah, it was great when we exchanged the belief in absolute truth for the belief that the absolute truth is that there are no absolute truths.

Global intellect took a major step forward...

 

[volbeast33]

Here's an idea. Don't get hung up on something like a pregame prayer that really doesn't mean a whole lot and focus more on actually being a positive example for others so you might actually help somebody out or compel them to follow your lead.

A number of people screaming about a 30 second prayer are spending the next 3 hours acting like complete turds.

There have been very few people getting angry and going over the top....I have enjoyed the conversation and actually learned a lot from it.

As for the thirty sec prayer not being a big deal....it may not be in the grand scheme of things but it is very important to stand up for it bc it won't stop there if you don't.

 

[BigOrangeFanatic]

Yah, it was great when we exchanged the belief in absolute truth for the belief that the absolute truth is that there are no absolute truths.

Global intellect took a major step forward...

Isn't the statement "there are no absolute truths" an absolute truth claim?

Seems self-defeating to me.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Isn't the statement "there are no absolute truths" an absolute truth claim?

Seems self-defeating to me.

That's why I worded it that way. lol

And exactly.

 

[DynamiteMcGhee]

Would removing the prayer alter your game experience or relationship with God in a negative manner? What about people who simply bow their heads as part of the ritual? I can go with or without it, I'm just curious as to why so many are so defensive over something that can be done on your own whenever you please. Someone not praying on your behalf doesn't mean you can't say one of your own.

 

[Sandman 423]

Since powersweep has science on his side i would like to know a couple of things. what caused the big bang? where did all the energy that caused the big bang come from? what is inside of a singularity? Does time really exist and is it constant? If the Universe is 15 billion years old and we can see objects that are 13 billion light years away wouldn't we have to 13 billion light years away from the object that put off that light. If so ,how did we get that far apart in only 2 billion years? I'm not being a smartas*. these are things that i would like to know.

 

[Sandman 423]

Would removing the prayer alter your game experience or relationship with God in a negative manner? What about people who simply bow their heads as part of the ritual? I can go with or without it, I'm just curious as to why so many are so defensive over something that can be done on your own whenever you please. Someone not praying on your behalf doesn't mean you can't say one of your own.

I wouldn't mind the moment of silence. What bothers me is that it is a group out of another state telling us what to do. If it were a group from tenn. that was doing this it wouldnt bother me as bad.

 

[Morpheus]

Yah, it was great when we exchanged the belief in absolute truth for the belief that the absolute truth is that there are no absolute truths.

Global intellect took a major step forward...

There's an old proverb that says, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

 

[Orange_Crush]

Since we're doing bible verses w Psalms let's focus on the embarrassing ones...like this one...since you guys want god in the stadium and he is repulsed by the handicapped why risk offending him?

Leviticus 21

16 The LORD said to Moses, 17 “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

It was an interesting place that you quit copy/pasting. To finish the thought:


Lev 21:22-23 He may eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy and of the holy things, (23) but he shall not go through the veil or approach the altar, because he has a blemish, that he may not profane my sanctuaries, for I am the LORD who sanctifies them."


God was symbolically revealing the Biblical precedent that it takes absolute perfection to be in His presence. Again, this was to show us that we need Jesus for relationship and can't do it on our own.

You ignored the fact that God fed them. You also ignored the fact that a vast majority of Jesus' ministry was healing the infirm and handicapped.

Your use of inflammatory vocabulary belies your motives in this discussion, imho...

 

[Orange_Crush]

There's an old proverb that says, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Not sure how to take that, but... OK...