Recruiting Football Talk VII

[Jackcrevol]

horse ****

Marvin Harrison. Total horse ****

 

[DD4ME]

This is what I don’t understand, how many of these coaches took over a team in the shape ours was in and
1). Became number 1 rank in 3 years
2) went to a bowl every year
3) ranked top 20 every year (I think)

this “ranking makes no sense! Stoops? Kiffin? Deboer? In fact none of them have done it with the exception of Heuple.

I like that Heupel seems to get second tier credit. Gives him a chip on his shoulder. I like that we start our SEC season on the road against a team that fired him. I hope by the time all the pundits wake up we've already won a title.

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

This is what I don’t understand, how many of these coaches took over a team in the shape ours was in and
1). Became number 1 rank in 3 years
2) went to a bowl every year
3) ranked top 20 every year (I think)

this “ranking makes no sense! Stoops? Kiffin? Deboer? In fact none of them have done it with the exception of Heuple.

Kiffin I can somewhat understand, but absolutely no way should Sark/DeBoer (new to the league) and Stoops (owned by Heupel 3 years straight) be ahead of CJH.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

There are a lot of uninformed “casuals” in college football that lack knowledge and are narrow minded. That’s the Paul Finebaum and Barstool fanbases. There is a small percentage of fans that would like to hear good analysis that’s broken down by X’s and O’s and logic rather than hurling insults or “just because”.

Pate is the best voice in college football currently. I don’t agree with everything he says, but I don’t take it as arrogance at all. He had a humbled upbringing and earned his.

I don't have a problem with him using the “casuals” take at all. An example of this are the times when a CFB fan or uninformed media person refer to Heupels offense as a pass first air raid offense. How many times have we heard this lazy take the past few years? Too often. Pate has actually touched on this very subject multiple times where he kept trying to tell people the opposite.

 

[DD4ME]

I'm not proposing a solution, just pointing out what the real problem is. When an NFL team signs a deal with a player the deal is a price, for a time, with performance expectations and penalties. NIL is being used as pay for services, but without any of the guarantees, penalties, or performance mandates. That is a formula for trouble and trouble is what we're getting.

Employment doesn't eliminate NIL, but it will relegate it to second tier. NIL is being used to get around the inability to pay, but if you could pay you wouldn't be using NIL. There is zero chance that a high school 5* OT's NIL is worth to a company what he's being paid, so NIL drops to something more appropriate to its value.

I love Nico, but I seriously doubt he is generating $10M in revenues to the companies he's hyping, and to be worth $2M annually, he's got to be driving much more than that in sales. Maybe I'm wrong, but that would have to be a *lot* of beets. And even if Nico is driving that much business, I assure you the OT being paid $1M isn't. He's ultimately being paid because the businesses of Knoxville make far more when UT is good, and they know it is worth money to them to keep UT good. That isn't really NIL.

"Hi. I'm Nico Iamaleava. When my parents come to town they always stay at The Tennessean. Now I know most of you are poors that can't afford it, but just think how nice it would be if you could. Go Vols!"

Um no. The majority of The Tennessean's demographic probably don't know who Nico is, but I promise the hotel owners well know how important UT's success is to their sales. So there is a strong justification to invest in the program, but NIL may not be the best vehicle. If athletes were employees, I think NIL will still matter, but not be the primary motivator. Look at the NFL. How many guys do you see in ads? Very few.

JMO

I don't see the added cost of being employees and all the official burden that comes with it being any more cost effective. Right to work would still say they can skip as quick as the next window. Anytime a government agency is involved the only thing that gets added is cost not efficiency. The NIL deals can require more than they do. I would structure them to be term oriented. I think currently most are monthly checks handed out. Ex: We'll give you more $ in a lump, but only after x games etc.

 

[VolInDayton]

Our special teams analyst, Kyle Blocker, is going to Miami of Ohio as ST Coordinator - Congratulations

Interesting. Miami's former ST coordinator was Jacob Bronowski who was under Heupel from in 2020 and 2021. He got the ST coordinator and TE job at Pitt. The coaching tree is starting to grow.

 

[Orange.]

They didn't look like the best team at any point this year. They were definitely not the clear #1. Maybe the best, but not definitely.

There was better parity this year than there has been in years, we're so used to declaring one team the clear best that it's a habit.

Amazing how many (including talking heads) are hoodwinked by Saban's rants and headlines.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Make it make sense

Deboer needs to be dead last, just like they did Heupel before his first season here. Stoops is not better than Heupel. In fact, i dont think there are more than 4 coaches that have proven theyre better in the SEC.

 

[butchna]

@butchna Mel Kiper doing his thing on ESPN on First Draft.

Says Marvin Harrison Jr. Highest grade since MegaTron.

Got him going to Arizona at #4 Overall..

It’s Mel Kiper. It rarely ends up remotely close to his vision. But MHJ definite top 5 unless he goes full Subway Jared around the Combine and Pro Days. Errybody in Bears Fantasy Football Land is either All Caleb or Keep Justin without any allowances for process. What I respect about Poles is he has an open ended board and free agency outlook that doesn’t pretend it all gets fixed at once. ONE guy never does all that. Would love to add MHJ…also wouldn’t pass on an Alt or Fashunu. Waldron properly appreciates a two TE set so if Bowers drops in that 9-12 area (and someone always does), why pass on that kind of talent? BUT Colorado State’s TE has the type of potential that makes a ton of dollarage in his second contract and could be available on the second or third day. Have I ever mentioned how much I love franchise building?

On your Cowboys, the East-West Shrine happens on Thursday and they’re playing across the street from where I work. Castles and Small are on the roster. Several interesting OL, DL and RB amongst other pieces to add. Obvious your boys need to identify OTs and RBs and corners. Predict that the LT from Arizona and BYU are pre-Combine persons of interest with Tyron Smith’s contract finished.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Kiffin I can somewhat understand, but absolutely no way should Sark/DeBoer (new to the league) and Stoops (owned by Heupel 3 years straight) be ahead of CJH.

Sark and DeBoer just made the playoffs, so I get why they're ranked ahead of Heupel. Stoops absolutely shouldn't be.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

Meh. There are better x's and o's guys. Not bashing Pate, but he does come across arrogant and all knowing. The reality is more often is he is just offering his opinion on a topic.

I am sure the reasoning and style of his content is the nature of the algorithm. He is knowledgeable to a point, but I don't find him that interesting personally.

I think the best X and O guy in SEC is this guy below. Some don't like this guy because he is a UGA insider, but he gives credit where it is due also. Not all of his content is relevant to a vol fan, but when he speaks about us or our shared competitors I listen. He also speaks to actual NIL impacts and rumors that others don't.

Pate is a happy medium between extensive Xs and Os and the opposite. He goes into matchups, stats, and things to look out for better than most of the national media but stops short of being one of those guys that goes way in depth on things. I think that’s why I like him as that’s what I’m looking for. If I want to dig deeper into schemes, X and Os, etc then I have other avenues but he does a good job giving quick and digestible insight into matchups better than most of the other national options out there.

 

[csprig9]

Make it make sense

I’d put CJH 2nd
Not many guys could win like we have with what we had

 

[butchna]

Interesting. Miami's former ST coordinator was Jacob Bronowski who was under Heupel from in 2020 and 2021. He got the ST coordinator and TE job at Pitt. The coaching tree is starting to grow.

Heupel will never win a championship by promoting from within.
- VN Mensa Society prolly

 

[OrangenSC]

Pates starting to sound like a more arrogant, younger finebaum. Aka a bitch

Why the heck would you say that? He's just sharing info he's hearing. That's why people listen to/watch these shows.

And what he's hearing is a result of the current happenings in cfb, ironically, the same thing cfb fans everywhere, including on VN, are complaining about constantly.

 

[DD4ME]

Deboer needs to be dead last, just like they did Heupel before his first season here. Stoops is not better than Heupel. In fact, i dont think there are more than 4 coaches that have proven theyre better in the SEC.

Made a playoff at a lesser school. Makes all the sense in the universe.

 

[DD4ME]

Umm, my wife would kill me.

The heart is on the other side…

Could you please do another version where I am more violent than inappropriate?

Lol sure

 

[OrangenSC]

Y'all can trash Pate all you want, but if we lose a coach due to the chaos you may feel differently.

It's just the typical criticizing, of everything, so many think makes them look cool.

 

[Volbucky]

Why the heck would you say that? He's just sharing info he's hearing. That's why people listen to/watch these shows.

And what he's hearing is a result of the current happenings in cfb, ironically, the same thing cfb fans everywhere, including on VN, are complaining about constantly.

Listen to him more. He’s constantly tooting his own horn about predictions, contacts and so on. He’s wrong quite a bit also but never brings those instances up. When you live in a glass house, don’t throw rocks.

 

[SSVol]

I don't see the added cost of being employees and all the official burden that comes with it being any more cost effective. Right to work would still say they can skip as quick as the next window. Anytime a government agency is involved the only thing that gets added is cost not efficiency. The NIL deals can require more than they do. I would structure them to be term oriented. I think currently most are monthly checks handed out. Ex: We'll give you more $ in a lump, but only after x games etc.

I would assume any employment contract that would accompany 7 figure deals would look more like a coach's contract than a simple employment agreement. A coach can bail if they like, but they are liable for the buy out. They might be able to do that in NIL agreements, but I don't get the sense that they have the teeth an employment contract does.

And I doubt efficiency matters when you are dealing with this size enterprise. We ain't paying kids to flip burgers.

The bottom line is that almost none of the kids are being paid for NIL, they are being paid to play. People can judge the motives of the coaches who are complaining, but if the Sabans and Dabos complain loudly enough to the right people, the system will get scrutiny, and with scrutiny will come changes. It will happen.

It's very easy to feel like there is no problem when things are going well for your team because people other than yourself are spending big bucks to make your team successful. Rest assured, many of those here completely happy with the system will be the loudest complainers the minute the system leaves us less competitive.

 

[Volbucky]

It's just the typical criticizing, of everything, so many think makes them look cool.

You seem to have a soft spot for him for some reason.

 

[SSVol]

You seem to have a soft spot for him for some reason.

I feel like he has been more fair to UT than some. I don't listen to him enough to draw a broad conclusion, but the little I have listened I've liked.

 

[GoodTimeVol]

Why the heck would you say that? He's just sharing info he's hearing. That's why people listen to/watch these shows.

And what he's hearing is a result of the current happenings in cfb, ironically, the same thing cfb fans everywhere, including on VN, are complaining about constantly.

Complaining about what? Nil? Transfer portal? Allowing student athletes to make money off themselves while also allowing them to go to the school they want, kinda like what HC’s do all the time.

Who are the ppl complaining? Is there any merit to their argument outside of advocating the government or ncaa to step in and create regulations, which btw is a terrible idea…any sort of regulation on spending will cause school boosters to do whatever possible to create another “under the table” payment situation to get who they want again…

 

[SSVol]

Complaining about what? Nil? Transfer portal? Allowing student athletes to make money off themselves while also allowing them to go to the school they want, kinda like what HC’s do all the time.

Who are the ppl complaining? Is there any merit to their argument outside of advocating the government or ncaa to step in and create regulations, which btw is a terrible idea…any sort of regulation on spending will cause school boosters to do whatever possible to create another “under the table” payment situation to get who they want again…

None of the above.

 

[DD4ME]

Umm, my wife would kill me.

The heart is on the other side…

Could you please do another version where I am more violent than inappropriate?

1st try @VolsDoc81TX

 

[DD4ME]

Second try @VolsDoc81TX