Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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And talent alone isn't enough to win championships.
You have to have both. I see posts that come off as if people think Vols can be the equivalent of Butler men's basketball and win championships using workaday players operating with machine-like efficiency in a well-conceived scheme. Maybe it cfb allows one and dones to level the playing field by depleting programs of top talent before they can fully harness it that strategy may bear fruit. I have no doubt that if you could hook Pruitt up to a lie detector right now, he'd have to admit that he'd trade classes with UGA, Bama, LSU, A&M, UF, or the Barn.
 
Sure. He knows what those guys looked like coming out of high school, which is why he recruited someone like Deandre Baker after seeing him one day at camp.

I’m also not disagreeing that higher ranked players have a better likelihood of being a great player. I’m saying that correlation is REALLY fuzzy. I trust Pruitt over Rivals to cut through that fuzz.
It's cool. I think that if people are determined to look at things in the best possible light, they have to trust the coaches. I trust their evaluations. I assume that most of the elite players who they offered and didn't get are prospects that they evaluated and wanted.
 
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You have to have both. I see posts that come off as if people think Vols can be the equivalent of Butler men's basketball and win championships using workaday players operating with machine-like efficiency in a well-conceived scheme. Maybe it cfb allows one and dones to level the playing field by depleting programs of top talent before they can fully harness it that strategy may bear fruit. I have no doubt that if you could hook Pruitt up to a lie detector right now, he'd have to admit that he'd trade classes with UGA, Bama, LSU, A&M, UF, or the Barn.
People are acting like there's no talent in this class though. It's not like we're saying we could take a class of 25 three stars and coach them up to compete on that level. More than half the class are 4 stars. Right now on rivals we have 11 four stars and 6 three stars. I'm curious if some of the big discrepancies for a few players between 247 and rivals evens out when 247 updates their rankings which have us with 9 four stars and 8 three stars. And there's a good chance it will be even better by the end in Feb just like it happened last year when we somewhat unexpectedly finished ESD and NSD with a bunch of highly ranked guys that many didn't think we'd land. Specifically QC and Gray on ESD and Wright and Toot on NSD.
 
One thing that amazes me about Clemson is that they've made a large part of their turnaround based on true local boys in DeAndre Hopkins and Kelly Bryant as cornerstones. And that's in a place that is far less densely populated than Knoxville.
Tajh Boyd ( a Virginian) was the centerpiece of the turn around. Not Kelly Bryant.
 
There was an in-depth statistical analysis done a few years back on 10 years worth of Rivals data.

Roughly 11% of 3 Stars ended up making an all conference team or getting drafted (their definition of “success” in the study).

So while a couple hundred 3 Stars end up as “hits” each year, there are literally thousands that end up as “misses”.

The breakdown as best I can remember:

5 Stars - 48%
4 Stars - 25%
3 Stars - 11%
2 Stars - 2%

The results are fairly intuitive, but interesting all the same imo.
It is interesting, and I think the numbers probably hold true to this day.

Where I feel people may take these numbers too literally is...they take them as a whole and don't take the time to look at other information too.

I could very well be wrong. I honestly haven't researched it either. It just seems to me that those numbers aren't being looked at hard enough. How many of those 3*'s went to fcs schools? The overwhelming number I would guess. How many went to low tier fbs schools? Still the larger number I would guess.

The true answer to the question (imo) lays in the question...what is the percentage of 3*'s that make the big time that come from P5 Schools?
 
It's cool. I think that if people are determined to look at things in the best possible light, they have to trust the coaches. I trust their evaluations. I assume that most of the elite players who they offered and didn't get are prospects that they evaluated and wanted.

We probably agree more than we disagree.
 
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Until you star junkies learn that the recruiting services rank kids based on whether they attended camps, rumors of 40 times, and what they are told by the coaches of upper echelon teams, you're going to be upset with our recruiting. Recruiting services suck and I view them like I do the 1-800 psychics. The rankings used to be ok but over the years it's turned into more of a popularity contest. It's getting worse too.

Sure, I will agree that the very top of the rankings, the truly elite players, the top 20-30, probably are fairly accurate. After that it's a crap shoot. The different between a class ranked 8th, and a class ranked 15 is miniscule at best.

I get it, we want the "feels good" associated with a highly ranked class. I want the "feels good" of a highly ranked team. One doesn't necessarily translate to the other.
 
Again, there is no development going on at UGA, or scheming. 5 star OL and 5 star backs and could only muster 61 yards against LSU.
Bama has regressed.....they've got talent on offense, but that defense is not the Bama defense of years past. We got more production out of our defensive freshmen than they did.
Come on man lol. I am the leader of the Kirby is overrated train but that’s just silly. They had a great defense. I think it just boils down to they chose the wrong QB. If they had Fields, they are in the playoff Bc they definitely at least beat SC.

Also bamas defense hasn’t been dominate the last couple years Bc their offense has been so great and they score so fast so they have less TOP. They don’t do the ground and pound and control the clock anymore. They also had 4-5 freshman starting for them this year in defense Bc of some bad injury luck.
 
We went 7-5. It’s not like we are expected to compete for the East next year. We are still a year away in the eyes of most. Every time Fulmer gets a mic in front of him he talks about us needing a few more recruiting classes. This class is shaping up nicely. Go away bedwetters.
 
Word is Jermaine Burton recruited Gilbert and Ojulari to LSU. He was at UGA this weekend without telling the LSU staff. If he flips it could also help UGA with Gilbert and Ojulari.
 
It explains about 60-70% of the variation depending on what data sources you use. However, you have to assume that recruit rankings and on the field success are independent variables. They aren’t, which is why Harrison Bailey isn’t a five star, but if Georgia offers a kid with a fast forty time he becomes an automatic four star.

After spending several years running numbers on this stuff, I think recruit rankings are f@&$ed. Who is evaluating the evaluators? Who has more skin in the game? Barton Simmons who needs clicks for revenue? Or Jeremy Pruitt who needs to win ball games?

I trust the dude who’s put dudes into the NFL, versus the ranking services who were exposed when they ranked a player that didn’t even exist, and are clearly on the take when going to one of their camps gets you a rankings boost.

Let me start by saying I agree because this might sound like a bit of a ramble.

The recruiting services evaluate high school talent to get subscriptions to their services. They know the most likely subscribers are those from "big" schools. They skew their numbers that way. That's not to say they are automatically wrong, but their driving force is making money.

In fact, they are often right (as the numbers kind of show), but I suspect they are correct more so because talented kids are going to do better where they are surrounded with other talented kids and immersed in a culture that drives them toward success. In other words, they are going to succeed more often at "big" schools that emphasize football. Therefore, the players that commit to those schools will get higher ratings because they are more likely to succeed. This is important because recruiting services want to be right so they get more subscriptions.

Now, that doesn't mean it's automatically skewed. Big, strong, fast, kids are easy to spot. The tricky part is determining which ones will be the NFL-level players. Hits and misses are all over the place, but the biggest, fastest, and strongest are more likely to hit than the other ones. If it was that easy, they'd all agree and always be right.

That's why I think recruiting rankings are more reactive than they are predictive. They aren't unimportant, but that aren't all-important either. What you really want is to be a school that drives services to bump your commits because you're more likely to give them success than most other schools.
 
What do you think the chances are that Bailey comes in here and starts next year?
I haven’t seen enough of him to make a guess either way but the door is wide open. JG can’t run the offense that Chaney wants to really run.

I’ll say this too any legit QB, like really legit is so different from other QBs from a personality and work ethic stand point that we will know if he’s legit or not fairly quickly. The special usually always push to start almost immediately and will pop very early in their career.
 
Recruiting rankings are nebulous and complicated, and ultimately, it's not worth fighting about, especially since no one's signed on single recruit yet. And beyond that, not one of these yet signed recruits has played a snap of football.

Really "winning" at recruiting is another way for fans to cheer on their teams when football isn't being played. Ultimately, you can't know how well you recruited because there's too much luck involved. How many sure-fire NFL hall-of-famers never came to be because they had a string of bad injuries? How many did because the guy better than them did have that string of injuries?

I get it, you have to start somewhere, and that's why we stargaze. But the real proof should be in the rankings once these guys leave school. That's where the proof is found.
 
I haven’t seen enough of him to make a guess either way but the door is wide open. JG can’t run the offense that Chaney wants to really run.

I’ll say this too any legit QB, like really legit is so different from other QBs from a personality and work ethic stand point that we will know if he’s legit or not fairly quickly. The special usually always push to start almost immediately and will pop very early in their career.

I know what you're talking about, but I can think of quite a few that didn't "pop" early though. This year's Heisman winner?
 
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