Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[Jack5151]

Have a good day folks

You too Nick!

 

[Kingston Vol]

Most great coaches will tell you:

developing your players >>>>>>>> recruiting

I think that’s true. But where the debate begins is how long we need to wait for development and does this method work in SEC football? I’m not sure “coach em up” works for very long because you still have a talent disadvantage when Florida, Auburn, Georgia, LSU and Alabama are all landing top 10 classes.

 

[BruinVol]

I don’t even have a number anymore.

For me, and I already know it’s lame, it is about progress.

I want to see the team grow. The depth build. The talent play and get experience at every position.

I want to see smart coaching decisions.

I want to see creative play calling to get your players in a position to succeed.

The wins will come if we do that, but I know they are not coming this year so pointless to actually put a number on it.

Imo is going to take 6 wins to begin to repair the damage done in the first two games.

Without a bowl trip recruiting is going to suffer. There just is going to be a penalty to pay in that area and no matter how much we lower the expectations it won’t change the reality of it.

 

[Kingston Vol]

What happens if we win, or win big? Either way, it's likely collective responsibility. That is typically what happens when you have a team. Neither the coaches nor the players should get all of the credit or all of the blame.

If we win I am inclined to say it will be a masterful coaching performance - because I think we have a talent disadvantage.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Imo is going to take 6 wins to begin to repair the damage done in the first two games.

Without a bowl trip recruiting is going to suffer. There just is going to be a penalty to pay in that area and no matter how much we lower the expectations it won’t change the reality of it.

I think we’ve already factored in the “penalty.” The question now is how bad will it be.

 

[bignewt]

I don't agree, but we will never know. That Florida team sucked. Butch would have butched it the rest of the year, IMO.

coming off two 8-4 seasons I doubt it, it just snowballed down the wrong side of the mountain.

 

[LA Vol]

Yes, we can develop guys... but recruiting is how you get them. The better the player, the faster the development. We need elite playmakers at the skill positions. We're losing some of our best ones. And some of the guys we have may never develop to the level we need to win in the SEC. We have to recruit over them.

The Rick Barnes strategy would have worked better a coach or two ago-- and won't work as well in football. Not at Tennessee. Not now. We're already two years into another rebuild and losing fatigue has set in. The engine has stalled, and it's time to start fixing it.

 

[chavisut]

I think that’s true. But where the debate begins is how long we need to wait for development and does this method work in SEC football? I’m not sure “coach em up” works for very long because you still have a talent disadvantage when Florida, Auburn, Georgia, LSU and Alabama are all landing top 10 classes.

Yup.

How many teams have won the conference in the last two decades that weren’t extremely talented from a recruiting standpoint? That AU team might have been the lowest rated of the bunch but they also had a generational type QB in Cam Newton.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Trash Daniels

 

[bignewt]

I think that’s true. But where the debate begins is how long we need to wait for development and does this method work in SEC football? I’m not sure “coach em up” works for very long because you still have a talent disadvantage when Florida, Auburn, Georgia, LSU and Alabama are all landing top 10 classes.

Yes but look at Missouri, Kentucky(a bit), A&M(they recruit about our level, maybe a tick better) they all develop to their system and have had recent success in the SEC. Pruitt keeps recruiting classes in the 10-15 range and DEVELOPS them we can be a force and be in the 10 win a season discussion.

 

[BruinVol]

I want to see us playing better in November than we are right now. That would show improvement. That's what we were lacking last year. We didn't get better, we got worse. Now, some of that may be due to injuries and guys being tired because of our lack of depth. But if we have our worst game of the season against Vandy, I'm going to be very disappointed. We need a strong November and having one would really help recruiting. As Fulmer used to say, "They remember what you do in November."

These are all fair things that we want to see but those things won’t make much of a difference at all if any in recruiting without some good wins before November

 

[bignewt]

Trash Daniels

he needs to do better.

snap that sucker next time.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Yes, we can develop guys... but recruiting is how you get them. The better the player, the faster the development. We need elite playmakers at the skill positions. We're losing some of our best ones. And some of the guys we have may never develop to the level we need to win in the SEC. We have to recruit over them.

The Rick Barnes strategy would have worked better a coach or two ago-- and won't work as well in football. Not at Tennessee. Not now. We're already two years into another rebuild and losing fatigue has set in. The engine has stalled, and it's time to start fixing it.

The fact of the matter is Tennessee football and Tennessee basketball are polar opposites in this regard: football has higher expectations than the program warrants. Basketball has lower expectations than the program warrants.

Tennessee football is probably what, the 5th or 6th best job in the SEC? Tennessee basketball is 2nd or 3rd in the SEC.

 

[jakez4ut]

I think that’s true. But where the debate begins is how long we need to wait for development and does this method work in SEC football? I’m not sure “coach em up” works for very long because you still have a talent disadvantage when Florida, Auburn, Georgia, LSU and Alabama are all landing top 10 classes.

yeah it works. it's working at LSU right now. it's working, to a lesser degree, at KY.

and how long? with a new saff retooling the whole roster....minimum 3-4 years.

as for the disadvantage gainst FL, GA and Bama.....at this point, why are we comparing ourselves in that group?

we're a LONG way from that.

it gets old around here because it's become a joke, but there's truth in the statement "let's beat Vandy first".....cause not only are we on losing streaks to those big 3, we're also on losing streaks to MO, VAndy and USCe.

so if folks keep judging us solely by what we do against those three, then the disappointment is going to be long and unyielding.

for me, for this year, and maybe next..maybe.....if we could beat MSU, USCE, vandy and KY that'd be a great place to start. beat UAB and we go bowling. screw up and beat MO and/or UF (pretty please?) and this season looks a whole lot different than it does now.

how likely is any of that? not very as i sit here today. hard to see a team that finds a way to lose to BYU with the game in the bag, and a team that gets basically trounced by GSU doing any of those things.

but in the interest of "we still have to go play those games".................let's just take it one game at a time and see what they do to finish this season....all of that is still in front of us, not behind.

maybe we get surprised come December.

 

[chargervol]

I think that’s true. But where the debate begins is how long we need to wait for development and does this method work in SEC football? I’m not sure “coach em up” works for very long because you still have a talent disadvantage when Florida, Auburn, Georgia, LSU and Alabama are all landing top 10 classes.

Step 1 is this fanbase accepting we're not part of that group *right now*.

A little more focus on ending the Vanderbilt losing streak and less on what Bama is doing, would go a long way in people's demand levels.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Yes but look at Missouri, Kentucky(a bit), A&M(they recruit about our level, maybe a tick better) they all develop to their system and have had recent success in the SEC. Pruitt keeps recruiting classes in the 10-15 range and DEVELOPS them we can be a force and be in the 10 win a season discussion.

Missouri is a fair comparison, I suppose. But I don’t think we’d settle for that here. 2013 and 2014 are historical outliers for them. Since then they’ve been 5-7, 4-8, 7-6, 8-5 and 2-1 to start this year.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Long but here's why I'm good Pruitt right now.
After having read mostly all your posts since his hiring, I'm not even gonna comment on "we all like Pruitt".

But yes, we absolutely should have beaten Ga State. A rookie HC mistake that I don't expect to see again.

The differences
1. This is truly his 1st time as HC at any major level, not just his 1st year at TN.

2. The fall has gotten worse as time goes on. Butch brought a decent uplift but not "getting back" then, just made it even harder.

3. I don't expect CJP to be an overnight fix all. There's 2 kinds of good coaches, the dynamic genius offense like a Leach or Meyer. Then there's the Richt, Saban style of just building a strong and fundamental FB team.
Looking at our staff, that's the Pruitt plan. It will take longer but if he succeeds, we'll be a good PROGRAM, not a team reliant on 1 certain coach and that falls apart when they leave.

We all get caught in the expectation of linear growth

5-7
7-5
9-3
14-1
15-0... forever

Life doesn’t work that way. The first two games were clear regression. It doesn’t mean pull the plug. This will be messy and may get uglier before it improves again but I’m fully onboard the 5 year plan this time.

 

[SLICKYINC]

Florida week and this place is still talking about coaching searches and records.

Meanwhile Florida fans are......

 

[nicksjuzunk]

if that franks duck isn't caught we are 4-0 going into the georgia game, probably lose yes but I bet we beat south carolina the next week. Would have been a polar opposite season.

Half the fans dropped Butch after Florida. I was done after UGA. That showed me the party was over

 

[HankHill]

The fact he did and says that speaks volumes. He was also speaking of the entire team. Many of those guys were pushed to another level by that staff that year. Nobody going into that season was pointing out all the NFL players. Never mind what the rest of the roster looked like outside of those few NFL guys.

A lot of those players weren’t far removed from playing for a SEC title too tho. Fulmer made a horrible OC hire in 08 and it cost him his job. Also don’t forget We had one of the best defenses in the country that year too while going 5-7. We averaged 16ppg that year defensively which is damn good considering our offense couldn’t stay on the field

I would love to know who the other options were if anyone could shed light on that. We

 

[Bruce Wayne]

20-17 Vols.

 

[TheTimeIsNow]

Trash Daniels

Holy moly. He completely tried to snap that guys ankle.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Honestly, could be wrong. But I think 2020 being a top 25 class and just not having so much flipping attrition from the 2018 or 2019 classes would set this staff & team on forward momentum.

2018 wasn't an "elite" class, but 22 enrollees and I think Tanner Antonutti is the only player no longer playing at UT, right? Not full of impact players, but the depth being built there is helpful.
2019 we've lost Melvin McBride...so again 21 of 22 still here is solid.

Meaning 42 of the guys on roster are fully Pruitt recruits, and the only 2 lost have been medical retirements not transfers (so far). Most of our attrition with this staff was Butch leftovers, I'm hoping he can continue to maintain this high level of "keepers" even if they aren't all studs and SEC elite talent the depth is crucial.

 

[Vfl2407]

Trash Daniels

So does this make Kentucky a thug school?

Kash Daniel - Football - University of Kentucky Athletics

 

[Kingston Vol]

Yup.

How many teams have won the conference in the last two decades that weren’t extremely talented from a recruiting standpoint? That AU team might have been the lowest rated of the bunch but they also had a generational type QB in Cam Newton.

Yep - gotta recruit with the big dogs to have a chance. Especially if you have a coaching disadvantage.