Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[Aesius]

Agreed. I didn’t want Doeren and still don’t. We would be very average. But we wouldn’t be as bad as we are now.

Doeren was a high floor low ceiling guy. But man he would be an uninspiring hire. Probably a worse version of Mark Stoops.

 

[Johnny Majors' Ghost]

Have to remember 1st round at UT was his first OC job since Purdue, where they played basketball on grass and probably had a limited playbook.

He has since been interviewed while at Arky, UGA, etc talking how his philosophy has changed since then. He thought other offenses were veering toward his old Purdue style and he wanted to go the other direction.

Not for the better, it seems.

Really wish Jim would dust off his old Purdue playbook and give Harrison Bailey a crash course.

 

[SmokinBob]

On our way to watch the Vols play!

 

[snowvols]

It'll be interesting to see how the Fightin' Frozen Flames do against Borin' Doeren this weekend.

If Liberty wins they'd have 3 times more wins vs the ACC this year than FSU.

 

[Catbone]

It’s inexcusable that he has started here for 4 years in a row.

Period. No ifs ands or buts. In my book damn near a fireable offense for a major SEC school.

 

[SSVol]

If Liberty wins they'd have 3 times more wins vs the ACC this year than FSU.

Think about that. Liberty.

 

[SSVol]

On our way to watch the Vols play!
View attachment 324174

I'm impressed. My cat doesn't make it off my property before he's barfed twice and pooped on himself. He don't travel so well.

 

[itsme]

PFF grades for all 127 QBs:

4. Mac Jones
5. Kyle Trask
11. Matt Corral
13. Kellen Mond
30. Feleipe Franks
31. Connor Bazelak
38. Collin Hill
39. Terry Wilson
44. Bo Nix
59. Stetson Bennett
98. Ken Seals
100. Jarrett Guarantano
103. T.J. Finley/Max Johnson
119. KJ Costello/Will Rogers

Their JG write-up:

I would still take the 4 below JG right now and I only know who one of them is.

 

[Aesius]

Period. No ifs ands or buts. In my book damn near a fireable offense for a major SEC school.

Pruitt and Butch both made the same mistake. Both needed to make recruiting transfer QBs priority No. 1 the day they were hired. Instead Butch rolled with Worley, who was a terrible fit for his offense. But at least Butch managed to land Dobbs. Pruitt has done absolutely nothing to improve the QB room or production on the field since Dec. 2017.

It's amazing how other new coaches seem to get good QBs in year 1, or at the very least year 2.

 

[KPT_VFL]

I think we expect too much out of elite b-ball recruits. It can be misleading for recruits to be 5 stars when a guy like Lebron James would also be 5 stars. There should be a 6 star system for that over the top special talent guy.

This. Not every 5 star is a one and done lottery pick. Lots international guys and second year players are top picks as well.

 

[UTProf]

So, Chaney just sucks?

It’s the same offense we saw with Helton. It’s a different offense than what we saw with Chaney under both Kiffin and Dooley. Hell, it’s less creative than it was against South Carolina after which Pruitt complained about not running enough (although I’ve said before that he wasn’t wrong in that particular criticism of that game we were also trying to find playmakers and also trying to help jumpstart JGs confidence and establish him as a downfield threat which is something opponents haven’t taken seriously because of both his inconsistency and our reluctance to pass). Chaney was attempting to find his playmakers and instill some confidence in JG by letting him throw more in that game. It all offsets but the end result of Pruitt’s complaints after seeing that dash of a more modern looking offense with the tiniest bit of creativity has been handing the ball off incessantly until we create our own high turnover ratio by only throwing or trying something other than running it up the middle when we have no other choice.

It’s damage control/hedging bets to say that anyone other than Pruitt is behind that Offense when the OCs have changed and yet the offense has remained the same and both OCs are anything but run it up the middle every play guys. It’s a way of laying the groundwork for fans to accept Chaney or someone else on O as a sacrificial lamb should that wind up being the move that the powers that be want to make.

There are only two common denominators on offense during Pruitt’s tenure 1. JG and 2. Jeremy Pruitt who is absolutely married to the idea of running an antique offense in much the same way his fellow ex-Sabin disciples Muschamp and Kirby are. While in the meantime, Saban has long since moved past the offense he and Alabama football are still known for running and winning with even when it was past it’s expiration date.

Saban moved to an offense that works in today’s world where you have teams like Clemson, tOSU, and sometimes OU and others who have shown you can put up points and have a nasty defense. Kirby has gotten by via out talenting almost everyone on the schedule but his love of that same antique offense has kept UGA underperforming despite the talent upgrades. But even Kirby is starting to take heat for it and Muschamp lost his 2nd SEC job sticking to his philosophy.

We can bring in any OC, known for whatever style, and we will see the same antiques roadshow that we’ve been seeing until Pruitt fundamentally changes his views on offense. Chaney was his do over and he chose the same O. It’s one of the bigger reasons why the time for him to go has come — it couldn’t be more clear that we are running Pruitt’s preferred style and that giving him a 3rd OC much like UF and Outh Carolina did with Muschamp won’t change or help.

 

[Smyrna ATL Vol]

Doeren was a high floor low ceiling guy. But man he would be an uninspiring hire. Probably a worse version of Mark Stoops.

True. But I would take it over a three win season and major blow outs to our rivals. This season is inexcusable and people keep trying to make excuses for Pruitt. JG continuing to play is the craziest coaching decision I have ever seen. Season is toast. Play your five star QB and get him experience for the future.

 

[therickbol]

It’s the same offense we saw with Helton. It’s a different offense than what we saw with Chaney under both Kiffin and Dooley. Hell, it’s less creative than it was against South Carolina after which Pruitt complained about not running enough (although I’ve said before that he wasn’t wrong in that particular criticism of that game we were also trying to find playmakers and also trying to help jumpstart JGs confidence and establish him as a downfield threat which is something opponents haven’t taken seriously because of both his inconsistency and our reluctance to pass). Chaney was attempting to find his playmakers and instill some confidence in JG by letting him throw more in that game. It all offsets but the end result of Pruitt’s complaints after seeing that dash of a more modern looking offense with the tiniest bit of creativity has been handing the ball off incessantly until we create our own high turnover ratio by only throwing or trying something other than running it up the middle when we have no other choice.

It’s damage control/hedging bets to say that anyone other than Pruitt is behind that Offense when the OCs have changed and yet the offense has remained the same and both OCs are anything but run it up the middle every play guys. It’s a way of laying the groundwork for fans to accept Chaney or someone else on O as a sacrificial lamb should that wind up being the move that the powers that be want to make.

There are only two common denominators on offense during Pruitt’s tenure 1. JG and 2. Jeremy Pruitt who is absolutely married to the idea of running an antique offense in much the same way his fellow ex-Sabin disciples Muschamp and Kirby are. While in the meantime, Saban has long since moved past the offense he and Alabama football are still known for running and winning with even when it was past it’s expiration date.

Saban moved to an offense that works in today’s world where you have teams like Clemson, tOSU, and sometimes OU and others who have shown you can put up points and have a nasty defense. Kirby has gotten by via out talenting almost everyone on the schedule but his love of that same antique offense has kept UGA underperforming despite the talent upgrades. But even Kirby is starting to take heat for it and Muschamp lost his 2nd SEC job sticking to his philosophy.

We can bring in any OC, known for whatever style, and we will see the same antiques roadshow that we’ve been seeing until Pruitt fundamentally changes his views on offense. Chaney was his do over and he chose the same O. It’s one of the bigger reasons why the time for him to go has come — it couldn’t be more clear that we are running Pruitt’s preferred style and that giving him a 3rd OC much like UF and Outh Carolina did with Muschamp won’t change or help.

That is logical and is certainly a possible explanation.

 

[butchna]

This “gotta trust the QB” shizz to put a functional scheme on the field makes me not trust the OC.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

Doeren was a high floor low ceiling guy. But man he would be an uninspiring hire. Probably a worse version of Mark Stoops.

His floor isn’t that high. He has a couple of terrible records in the ACC, including 4-8 last year. I think it would have been a disaster.

 

[scvolfan7]

Being a good, intelligent teacher is not synonyms with being a moron. Being really knowledgeable about a topic but not being able to get that info across to other people does not make a person a moron.

He’s had a lot of time to teach these guys and we’re making the same mistakes over and over again. Maybe he’s not a moron but it sure as hell looks like it

 

[scvolfan7]

His floor isn’t that high. He has a couple of terrible records in the ACC, including 4-8 last year. I think it would have been a disaster.

He’s really bad. ACC butch Jones. Had like 9 NFL draft picks on one of his teams and only went 9-4

 

[UTProf]

Another reporter slamming Vol calls.

This is 100 percent Pruitt’s people hoping they can manipulate the fanbase. They know the tipping point is near and that they are afraid someone will sack up and make a move if they hear where the fanbase is. Lots of plays are being made right now to try and lead the fanbase down a preferred road. But His PR team clearly sees the sword of Damocles and the rope is fraying. It probably also means that Freeze really is there for the taking. People, even old crusty powers that be kinds of people, get the courage to make bold moves when they feel like they have the support of others.

 

[Kingston Vol]

This “gotta trust the QB” shizz to put a functional scheme on the field makes me not trust the OC.

Right - because you can still have a good offense with an average QB.

The problems are far deeper. The WR have been fine, the OL has been bad, and the RBs haven't been anything special.

This ain't just JG no matter how much people want it to be.

 

[TrippieRedd]

This is 100 percent Pruitt’s people hoping they can manipulate the fanbase. They know the tipping point is near and that they are afraid someone will sack up and make a move if they hear where the fanbase is. Lots of plays are being made right now to try and lead the fanbase down a preferred road. But His PR team clearly sees the sword of Damocles and the rope is fraying. It probably also means that Freeze really is there for the taking. People, even old crusty powers that be kinds of people, get the courage to make bold moves when they feel like they have the support of others.

This, this, this. Even down to the insiders coming in here to do crowd control. They all do not want to make a move for some reason. Do they enjoy being terrible and also manipulating us at the same time because if they give us some hope, we will continue to spend money on the football team.

 

[Aesius]

His floor isn’t that high. He has a couple of terrible records in the ACC, including 4-8 last year. I think it would have been a disaster.

High floor in terms of our program's new standards. I think he would get us bowling every year at least. And that's probably enough for a lifetime contract now.

 

[UpstateVol613]

Good take other than the incorrect facts involved. Chaney's job this year is absolutely up for critique. That is a no-brainer. But he has ran lots of different offenses, many of them very successful. He has thrown the ball all over the field some years. Other years he has been very run dominant. This idea that he doesn't know what he is doing and runs an archaic offense because it is all he knows how to do is beyond stupid. It is some combination of him doing his job poorly with this offense, this year + trying to work around absolutely terrible QB play.

You beg to differ? Would you like me to keep going with FACTS? In today's game you aren't beating many teams averaging less than 30 points a game. For some reason most people only remember the 2012 season when reflecting on Chaney's time at TN. You want to back your statement up with FACTS or continue hurling softballs this way?

2009 – Tennessee
Points: 29.3
Total Yards: 383.6
Passing Yards: 226.4
Rushing Yards: 157.3
Yards Per Play: 5.69
Third Down Percentage: 39.77%
Red Zone Scoring: 87.27%
Quarterbacks:
Jonathan Crompton — 224-of-384, 2,800 yards, 27 TD, 13 INT
2010 – Tennessee
Points: 27.0
Total Yards: 363.8
Passing Yards: 254.5
Rushing Yards: 109.2
Yards Per Play: 5.72
Third Down Percentage: 36.51%
Red Zone Scoring: 75.00%
Quarterbacks:
Matt Simms — 195-of-113, 1,460 yards, 8 TD, 5 INT
Tyler Bray — 124-of-224, 1,849 yards, 18 TD, 10 INT
2011 – Tennessee
Points: 20.3
Total Yards: 332.7
Passing Yards: 242.6
Rushing Yards: 90.1
Yards Per Play: 5.04
Third Down Percentage: 40.94%
Red Zone Scoring: 81.58%
Quarterbacks:
Tyler Bray — 147-of-247, 1,983 yards, 17 TDs, 6 INT
Justin Worley — 48-of-87, 604 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT
Matt Simms — 27-of-62, 319 yards, 0 TD, 3 INT
2012 – Tennessee
Points: 36.2
Total Yards: 475.9
Passing Yards: 315.6
Rushing Yards: 160.3
Yards Per Play: 6.42
Third Down Percentage: 37.35%
Red Zone Scoring: 86.44%
Quarterbacks:
Tyler Bray — 268-of-451, 3,612 yards, 34 TD, 12 INT
2013- Arkansas
Points: 20.7
Total Yards: 357.2
Passing Yards: 148.5
Rushing Yards: 208.7
Yards Per Play: 5.53
Third Down Percentage: 41.67%
Red Zone Scoring: 78.95%
Quarterbacks:
Brandon Allen — 128-of-258, 1,552 yards, 13 TD, 10 INT

 

[rjd970]

As usual, once fans stop showing up the change will be made. Message board fodder and call-in shows where griping happens a few fans at a time won't do it. Apathy en masse with ticket and merchandise sales is the only thing that will cause movement.

The sad part is they hire Freeze and I bet they sell out season tickets next year almost overnight.

This is stupid.

 

[jakez4ut]

Right - because you can still have a good offense with an average QB.

The problems are far deeper. The WR have been fine, the OL has been bad, and the RBs haven't been anything special.

This ain't just JG no matter how much people want it to be.

i don't disagree.

but it's really, really hard to ignore just how much of a part of the problem he is.....

 

[Kingston Vol]

i don't disagree.

but it's really, really hard to ignore just how much of a part of the problem he is.....

He was not this big a problem in Helton's offense.

In fact, if I remember correctly, we all thought he might be pretty good but the offensive line wasn't doing him any favors.

All I'm saying is, you can go .500 in this league with JG as your QB. We did better than that last season.

The offense is bad this year because the entire team has checked out and didn't get better this offseason.