Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[FBtime]

Cincy fans said the same thing about Butch and we said the same thing you are here. It's a red flag.

I actually don't remember Cincy fans being happy Butch Jones was leaving. He was 10-2 and 9-3 and first in conference in his last two years. Paul Daugherty wrote a column denouncing him for constantly seeking other jobs but definitely do not think the fan base was happy to get rid of him.

 

[KeepinUpWithJones]

I’m in the boat with most thinking the key will be his defensive staff hires. I think he has a lot of potential to be a great here. It will feel good not to have to worry about the offensive side of the ball now though.

I’m not convinced he’s gonna be a home run yet or anything but some positivity and optimism is nice sometimes haha

 

[UTMVol76]

SEC experience as a coordinator and HC.

CJP had GREAT experience as DC at Bama, UGA, And FSU. Doesn't always correlate.

CLK has a FAILED record as a HC at USC and Ole Miss (so far), has not proven he can sustain a program, and CJH has beaten him 2x H2H at comparable programs.

 

[LA Vol]

I haven't followed this entire conversation, how does this compare to Butch Jones and his Alabama stint? Surely if Auburn is complaining about Steele we would have complained about his deal at Bama? Maybe it isn't the comparable.

The difference was, Butch had the leverage. He made it clear he would file suit if he didn't get his full buyout. There were things about the Title IX investigation that didn't need to come out. Sometimes, the prudent strategy is to pay people to go away quietly.

Butch flaunting his low-paid position at Bama was no coincidence; neither was his taking another HC job when his UT buyout payments ran out.

 

[COOKEVOL]

Love Asheville and especially Pisgah. But it’s unfortunately one of the hardest cities to find a good job there.

No kidding. I’m constantly looking for jobs at UNCA or Western. People just don’t leave. Same at App State.

 

[lfvol]

All that basically sums up as retreads. Football is football. Good players are everywhere. Just Bc people haven’t recruited to an sec school before means virtually nothing to me honestly.

I understand your position. I however think no connections to high level kids and programs especially in TN is a big factor for a UCF staff we added that never even landed a 4 star during this run of success in FL. I suspect TS is the first domino. We shall see.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I don't study the game at a high level, so I have to trust what I read and a few people I talk to who understand schematics.

But my understanding is this is not Lane Kiffin's Ole Miss offense. It is basically Briles' Baylor offense.

Didn't you want Briles for OC though?

 

[UTMVol76]

Coach Steele's defense was the best part of Auburn's teams the last few years.

I'll take him, no problem.

 

[butchna]

Basilio Blog this morning from his “insider” guest columnist Orange Throat. Can any of our insiders confirm this dynamic on hiring Steele?

Insiders think Heupel would love to have Steele as his DC but White is stalling it. White and Auburn AD Greene are tight and Greene stopped Steele from getting the HC job there. UT would have to pay Auburn a reasonable amount for Steele to be DC but nowhere near the ridiculous $2.6 million per year.

The Tony Basilio Show

Hopefully Steele is the guy JH wants and this is just a negotiation with Auburn as to what his reasonable compensation as DC is to offset what Auburn is paying him.

Why would WE have to pay Auburn? They have no say in how we compensate him.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Didn't you want Briles for OC though?

This is apparently Art Briles’ offense. Kendall changed his offense after working with Kiffin and Herman.

 

[BruinVol]

Why would WE have to pay Auburn? They have no say in how we compensate him.

Yea we have to pay steele a fair market price.

That’s why I think 750-1mil is what it would take if he’s our DC. We paid DA 1mil

 

[butchna]

After talking with some folks about how this offense will run, I just plainly don’t think we’re going to have success in the SEC. Doesn’t meant I’m not rooting to be wrong.

I hated the hire, got on board because that’s what fans do, then did some actual research. I don’t see how this path forward ends well.

Dead lock homerun hire now official!

 

[Ace]

Why would WE have to pay Auburn? They have no say in how we compensate him.

If he is DC, then we have to pay a DC salary. I know everyone will point to Butch Jones, but he was being paid an analyst salary. As LAVol posted a few moments ago, Jones threatened to unveil Title IX issues at UT

 

[Newman]

 

[MoCo_Vol]

This is apparently Art Briles’ offense. Kendall changed his offense after working with Kiffin and Herman.

So Josh Heupel, who has never worked directly with Art is running an identical system, but his son who spent the majority of his career working for him is totally using a different offense because of a couple years with Kiffin/Herman?

I think Heupel's system has evolved more than any of the other OCs just mentioned. And I'm talking back to his days at OU to now. The system he ran in UCF won't be exactly what we run, he very likely ran something similar to that Baylor system under Art though because they (Baylor) were very similar to UCF in roster talent.

 

[butchna]

His biggest failure there was that he was not Scott Frost. Very similar to Cuonzo following Bruce Pearl here (even though Martin wasn't very good here). When you follow a coach that has had unprecedented success like Frost, it is hard for the whole fan base to like you.

They had TWO 12 win seasons before Frost...it wasn’t unprecedented.

 

[butchna]

Lol why didn’t we try that with butch and alabama?

Because it ends up not being worth it. You just pile on damages and court costs to the tab.

 

[Dudley Smith]

This is apparently Art Briles’ offense. Kendall changed his offense after working with Kiffin and Herman.

When did Kendal Briles work with Tom Herman?

 

[butchna]

Ahh, well hell double his salary as DC to get him to 900k a year.

Or don’t...whatevs.

 

[UTMVol76]

So Josh Heupel, who has never worked directly with Art is running an identical system, but his son who spent the majority of his career working for him is totally using a different offense because of a couple years with Kiffin/Herman?

I think Heupel's system has evolved more than any of the other OCs just mentioned. And I'm tracking back to his days at OU to now. The system he ran in UCF won't be exactly what we run, he very likely ran something similar to that Baylor system under Art though because they (Baylor) were very similar to UCF in roster talent.

Just one note from an article I read last week: in 2014 CJH spent time with Briles to learn his system, and he implemented it that year at OU. Injuries forced them to play a Freshman 2/3 of the year (Knight maybe?) and they finished 8-5. Stoops was under some heat and fired CJH, who then went to Utah St, but that was the beginning of him implementing that system that he continued to evolve over the years.

 

[Kingston Vol]

When did Kendal Briles work with Tom Herman?

Wasn’t it Herman in 2018 at Houston? Wait, that was the one Applewhite year. Totally forgot about him.

 

[KB5252]

I'm simply saying that writing off what the fanbase of the previous school is saying is foolhardy. They don't like him for a reason(s). Instead of unicorns and sunshine, perhaps we should listen.

Do you think Liberty fans would be happy to see Freeze leave? What about Chadwell at Coastal? Napier at ULL?

I get the punt but it depends on who you're listening to. I've seen many UCF that were sorry to see him go. I've seen many that we're happy to see him leave. It makes me wonder if some of those happy to see him leave are similar to many of our knee jerk prayers in the FF.

It's certainly something to consider, I'm cautiously optimistic but will concede that this could end badly. I think the ceiling is consistent 8 to 9 win seasons with the occasional shot at east.

 

[Kingston Vol]

So Josh Heupel, who has never worked directly with Art is running an identical system, but his son who spent the majority of his career working for him is totally using a different offense because of a couple years with Kiffin/Herman?

I think Heupel's system has evolved more than any of the other OCs just mentioned. And I'm tracking back to his days at OU to now. The system he ran in UCF won't be exactly what we run, he very likely ran something similar to that Baylor system under Art though because they (Baylor) were very similar to UCF in roster talent.

Like I said, I don’t study the offenses well enough to know this stuff. But I trust the people who have explained it to me.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Steele's resume as a DC

Alabama
2007 - 22.0 (28th) 7-6
2008 - 14.3 (7th) 12-2

Clemson
2009 - 20.4 (25th) 9-5
2010 - 18.8 (13th) 6-7
2011 - 29.3 (81st) 10-4 (gave up 70 to WVU in bowl game) (26.2 excluding bowl game)

LSU
2015 - 22.4 (32nd) 9-3

Auburn
2016 - 17.1 (7th) 8-5
2017 - 18.5 (12th) 10-4
2018 - 19.2 (23rd) 8-5
2019 - 19.5 (17th) 9-4
2020 - 24.7 (38th) 6-5 (covid and all-SEC schedule)

 

[Geaux_Vols]

The athletic reranked the 2017 recruiting classes based on production. This bodes well for Heupel.

Tennessee didn’t make the top 50.