Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[butchna]

I doubt it. If Auburn wants to make a case, they're going to demand UT pick up the tab, claiming that's FMV. UT and Steele can work within the contract or part ways and start fresh.

If he leaves of his own volition then he’s declining $900 k of his buyout.

 

[MarcoVol]

If he is DC, then we have to pay a DC salary. I know everyone will point to Butch Jones, but he was being paid an analyst salary. As LAVol posted a few moments ago, Jones threatened to unveil Title IX issues at UT

Crazy thought - how about we stop covering up or not fully investigating claims and properly punish when it is required and then there won’t be any Title IX issues that baby back bit*h coaches can blackmail us with

 

[VolGee4]

He's already making 900k which isn't far off the average DC salary in the SEC. Auburn pushing for us to inflate his rate to benefit them isn't really fair to us and our new AD (who didn't hire Steele to begin with).

That 900k is over 2 years. Not 900k per year. That would be less than average or fair market value for a DC.

If he is just simply named LB coach, then it's find. I am sure UT can work it out of they want him. I don't think Auburn has to push anything as long as it's a clause in his contract that he signed with them.

 

[PA Vol]

The truth! I turned 33 last year. Hangovers are the worst now.

Not if you just roll the party into the next day...

 

[BruinVol]

That 900k is over 2 years. Not 900k per year. That would be less than average or fair market value for a DC.

If he is just simply named LB coach, then it's find. I am sure UT can work it out of they want him. I don't think Auburn has to push anything as long as it's a clause in his contract that he signed with them.

We paid 1mil last year. No chance auburn could win a case against Steele/TN if we paid that.

 

[LA Vol]

Perhaps, but with the new transfer rule if approved, you have to keep recruiting kids. He started most of the year and was no worse that 58. And there has been innuendo from reporters that 58 caused friction in 2018 and 2019. Meanwhile, we need tackles and are offering a 5.6 255lb kid. And we lost Key L to OK, our top prospect at DB. There are consequences to sticking a FB number on a kid the last two games and not playing more talented underclass guys like Key. And the Plowman show timing limited the chance to sell these kids.

It's true coaches are now having to devote time to re-recruiting their own players, especially at a program in turmoil like UT. Also true that 58 was vocally displeased and threatening to leave for a while. There were multiple issues with both PT and position changes. Multiple players didn't feel they were getting what they were promised, and the discontent was ongoing and unproductive.

Still, I wish the coaches could have talked most of these players back from the portal. They liked UT enough to sign; I wish we could have found a way to keep them and use them more productively. I think we'll need them and are looking at a slower rebuild without them.

 

[butchna]

Like I said, I don’t study the offenses well enough to know this stuff. But I trust the people who have explained it to me.

Might want to depose them. You have an excellent case for fraud.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

When did Kendal Briles work with Tom Herman?

I'd assume Kingston was thinking about 2018 at Houston, but that was when Major Applewhite was the HC not Herman.

 

[InVOLuntary]

He's under a two-year contract as an "assistant football coach." His on-field responsibilities are intentionally undefined. Auburn has been squealing since he was hired. They fired him; now they want UT to pick up more of the tab.

We paid Butch the duration of his contract for fetching coffee for Saban. Tell Auburn to cry us a river.

 

[butchna]

Crazy thought - how about we stop covering up or not fully investigating claims and properly punish when it is required and then there won’t be any Title IX issues that baby back bit*h coaches can blackmail us with

I would’ve called his bluff if that was the crux. Even Bama would’ve dropped him if he became the face of Title IX.

 

[butchna]

I'd assume Kingston was thinking about 2018 at Houston, but that was when Major Applewhite was the HC not Herman.

His people aren’t to be trusted.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Just one note from an article I read last week: in 2014 CJH spent time with Briles to learn his system, and he implemented it that year at OU. Injuries forced them to play a Freshman 2/3 of the year (Knight maybe?) and they finished 8-5. Stoops was under some heat and fired CJH, who then went to Utah St, but that was the beginning of him implementing that system that he continued to evolve over the years.

Share the link, nothing I've seen on this. I've seen articles mention Art Briles' offense when talking about Josh Heupel's, but nothing that states CJH spent any time with Briles to learn his system

 

[seaofORANGE22]

Also Georgia sucks lol

Bout time somebody finally admitted this in here

 

[butchna]

If he is DC, then we have to pay a DC salary. I know everyone will point to Butch Jones, but he was being paid an analyst salary. As LAVol posted a few moments ago, Jones threatened to unveil Title IX issues at UT

$425 k isn’t QC money. We have no obligation to match or come close to what they doled out!

 

[VolGee4]

The difference was, Butch had the leverage. He made it clear he would file suit if he didn't get his full buyout. There were things about the Title IX investigation that didn't need to come out. Sometimes, the prudent strategy is to pay people to go away quietly.

Butch flaunting his low-paid position at Bama was no coincidence; neither was his taking another HC job when his UT buyout payments ran out.

All true but Butch was fine with being an analyst. I don't know if the "fair market value" phrasing was in his contract, but that is in Steele's. If Steele will remain as LB coach, then we are fine, and we could pull an Orgeron to USC move where Steele is DC but is LB coach in name only. However, if we name Steele as DC, I think Auburn has a case to request that he be paid closer to fair market value.

 

[Dudley Smith]

Did Basilio say this or his Guest Contributor on his blog?

It was "Orange Throat," not Tony

Wasn’t it Herman in 2018 at Houston? Wait, that was the one Applewhite year. Totally forgot about him.

Correct. I guess the comp that gives me hope is Jeff Lebby, who was Heupel's QB coach for Heupel's first year as HC at UCF, then QB/OC the second. I can't imagine that what Lebby was running at Ole Miss this year was much different than what they ran at UCF and it seemed to work well for them.

 

[UT = Checkmate]

View attachment 347469

He actually pooped his pants if I recall correctly

 

[you]

The offense does put up a lot of points and it will here. At the end of the year, our offensive stats will look great.

Heupel himself said he reinvented his offense after Oklahoma. What they were doing in Norman was what Stoops and Jay Norvell wanted to run. So you have to look at everything after 2014.

If you look from 2015 forward, this offense has a consistent pattern: put up points on bad teams, get shut down by good teams.

2015 (at Utah State so there are some talent disparities): 12 points vs. Southern Utah, 14 points vs. Utah, 17 points vs. Washington, 14 points vs. San Diego State, 13 points vs. New Mexico
2016 at Missouri: 11vs. West Virginia, 7 vs. LSU, 14 vs. Florida, 21 vs. Kentucky, 26 vs. Vanderbilt
2017 at Missouri: 13 vs. South Carolina, 3 vs. Purdue, 14 vs. Auburn - the offense took off later in the year and I will acknowledge it, but they didn't beat any good teams.

I've seen the argument that we need to crawl before we can walk, and putting up points against bad teams will be fun and at least make us worth watching. I agree with those things, but we're going to have a similar issue that Pruitt had where we are totally noncompetitive vs. the Big 3 and eventually, people will get tired of it.

What would you consider similar success?

Missouri was 4-8 in 2016 and 7-6 in 2017, and that was with notoriously good defensive coach Barry Odom running the defense.

I’ve been saying this. When you put up 79 points against a bad team, then only put up 7 or so against a good team, then you average about 40.

Don’t buy into this 40+ average points per game stat because it’s deceiving.

Now, if he hangs 50 on UGA like Kiffen did, then get excited.

 

[Kingston Vol]

It was "Orange Throat," not Tony



Correct. I guess the comp that gives me hope is Jeff Lebby, who was Heupel's QB coach for Heupel's first year as HC at UCF, then QB/OC the second. I can't imagine that what Lebby was running at Ole Miss this year was much different than what they ran at UCF and it seemed to work well for them.

Yeah, it's totally possible he adjusts his offense. If he runs what he ran at Missouri, it won't work against the best teams on our schedule. That I am confident about.

 

[mrmax86]

Twitter game on point in the new and improved Athletic Dept.

I love this.

 

[UTMVol76]

Share the link, nothing I've seen on this. I've seen articles mention Art Briles' offense when talking about Josh Heupel's, but nothing that states CJH spent any time with Briles to learn his system

I’ll have to dig but if I find it I’ll tag you

 

[VolGee4]

We paid 1mil last year. No chance auburn could win a case against Steele/TN if we paid that.

No. We could probably pay him 700k-750k and be fine too. It's not what we have paid- it's fair market value. I think the DC's at UK and OM make less than 800k.

 

[Nashvegas31]

I don't study the game at a high level, so I have to trust what I read and a few people I talk to who understand schematics.

But my understanding is this is not Lane Kiffin's Ole Miss offense. It is basically Briles' Baylor offense.

What Lane does now compared to before is even different. He took some things from Briles and made it what it is today. Heupel has meshed what he used to do with Air Raid at Oklahoma, what Matt Wells did at Utah and then what he learned of Briles system from Briles family and Lebby and incorporated it into his own deal. Everyone that is smart would attempt to be a mesh of some of the best systems and make it their own. Briles system is proven to work in multiple conferences so it would make sense to use a lot of those ideas.

 

[Chuckie]

Support is warranted if there is change and a willingness to help ones self. If we aren't willing to help ourselves apathy is not only warranted, it should be expected. I would be 100% on board and support if there was real change happening.

But there isn't.

A lower level coach that hasn't accomplished anything in the SEC or FBS has just been given the reigns - again. Just like the last 3 times - we are paying him on the lower end of the conference pay scale...and outside of all the stats and what not he is just another gamble at the end of the day. Just like last time he says all the right things in the press conference. Just like last time he brings something new and exciting. Meanwhile - you have guys like Hugh Freeze and Lane Kiffin that at the very least can appreciate what it takes to win in this conference all but begging to right this thing. This feels like Butch Jones 2.0.

I really hope CJH kills it here. I really really really do. I hope I have to eat a second helping of crow. But at the end of the day, at least right now, this is no different than what we have been doing. Rinse/Repeat all over again.

I've been through the hard times. Been a fan since the mid-80's. Every time since Fulmer was fired I got optimistic about the new coach. I'm done with that, its show me time. Until then, there is no reason to believe this will be any different.

Apathy. It is finally here for me.

I can understand where you’re coming from, but I think there’s something to be said for understanding the situation. By all accounts we went after some coaches that would have everyone more pumped up, but they said no or tried to play us.

I don’t know what else could be done. We had to hire someone, and I think the attempt and intent of this AD (especially when compared to Mike Hamilton giving the reins to Kiffin instead of Patterson) is worth some amount of support instead of apathy. My hope is that if things go slower than we’d all like, that the trio of President/Chancellor/AD stay committed to doing everything in their power to right the ship. If they do, we’ll get there.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Here's why I'm "all in" with CJH.

The BYU game is the only loss of his 8 in his career that was by more than a single possession. That tells me that losses are typically because of in-game mistakes, not fundamental issues with scheme, game plan, or development of players. Something we've lacked since Kiffin was here.

Look at Kiffin's first year, Ole Miss game (which we wore in it until into the 3rd when Ole Miss' rushing attack wore out the defense) we got wrecked and he didn't coach the bowl game. But all the other losses (4 total) were by single possessions, because even a young Kiffin was developing our players, game planning well, and running a successful scheme. I think we'll see similar results from CJH, this first year will likely be a bit worse thought but once he's got the culture changed we should be a competitive team week to week winning more than we lose.