Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV

[Ace]

How does a coach actively lobby for another coach to be fired… in the middle of the season… at a school to which he has no ties or influence. Come on, fellas… let’s take lunch and regroup.

His agent can contact Miami president and express interest in the job if it came available. Happens all the time

 

[peaygolf]

Florida better act quickly… their Florida State brethren have picked up very serious momentum on the recruiting trail. Especially from In State Highschool coaches. They love Norvell and FSU is getting massive new facilities. They’ll end up getting a better class than Florida for 22’ Top 10 class. Mike’s had to gut the entire roster. Kicked dozens off the team etc. Culture was so awful. I hope they can capitalize and pin down florida once again

It's already happening!

 

[Adam2014]

you’re welcome since @Adam2014 was too scared

Damn you went and done did it.

 

[TheRain]

I mean, every coach is fired at some point with few exceptions. So saying “maybe this year, maybe next year, maybe some other time” is kinda a dumb line. And it won’t be this year..

Texas AD backs Sarkisian: 'Not a time to splinter'

This allows him to say "I told you so"

 

[pierce60]

I have done that before from the stands….. start complaining about something and then realize that I’m an idiot.

I have a basic rule of thumb that the louder someone is yelling from the stands at an official or coach the less they ACTUALLY know about that particular sport.

It’s science’s really.

 

[Pridedad]

you’re welcome since @Adam2014 was too scared

Now that is disturbing.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I'm just saying that a great coach adapts to the environment and recruits well, so either one of those would disqualify him from being a great coach.

This is where we discuss the difference between objective & subjective. But I don't care to get into it, I think he's a great coach that just wasn't a good fit here.

 

[beneVOLence]

I thought we hit the jackpot in Pruitt…. I will go back to my corner in shame.

If it wasn’t for guy bringing nuggets, I’d think you need to be banned for that thought.

 

[BigSteve09]

Was talking to some people at the UGA game that i know from my time workin in sports and heard a fun little gem but didnt think too much of it, but the Barstool podcast just brought it up.

Lane Kiffin might actively be lobbying to get Manny Diaz fired and get his job. That would be incredible for us.

if he wants to be in Florida lets hope Miami makes a move before Florida does.

I hope so.

Actually, I'd say Miami is the "destination" spot in Florida for a guy like Lane.

People tend to forget that Florida isn't on a beach and Gainesville as a city isn't huge population wise. Ideally you'd want to be in one of the major cities I'd say or on a beach, and Miami meets both.

I’m sure Kiffin would love to go to Miami, I’m not sure the administration would be interested in hiring him. The University of Miami considers itself an increasingly elite academic institution (all of the big Florida schools are getting more selective, largely due to population growth), and I don’t think they embrace their history as “The U.” Hiring Kiffin with all the baggage he brings with him and the public spectacle he makes is going to be an issue for that school. I’m sure they’ll call Mario Cristobal, but I can’t see them being willing to pay what he will command (and Oregon would easily match). They may kick the tires on Dave Clawson.

I agree that those 3 are a great trio to headline their big board. If Miami got Cristobal this year, that would signal a complete 180 from the direction that the program has been going. Kiffin or Clawson would be great there as well, if football was all that mattered.

Miami cannot do what they did in the 80's-00's that made them elite. They have a lot of academics and pointexters at the top running the university now that are ashamed of their former image as The U. They were embarrassed by the Yahoo Sports story on Shapiro that turned the program inside out. They want to go to academic conferences and events and get the same oohs and ahs that their colleagues from Duke get. Football has not been the focus there.

Maybe that will change? I don't know.

They have a hard enough time getting fans and the community to commit fully. They are competing with other professional sports, the climate, the fact that there is so much more to do in the city. Not to mention the campus is in Coral Gables, which is 35 minutes west of South Beach, and 35 minutes south of Hard Rock Stadium where they play. Even when the fans and community buy in, the big money donors that want the school to spend money on academics are not cutting the checks that a program like Miami needs. Going to Miami isn't really the "college experience" that you get at most other major universities, especially ones where football is a priority.

Look at their last couple of hires - Richt, who they were happy to luck into, but was obviously not an elite coach, and Diaz, who is basically their Dooley, and they considered themselves lucky to have those stars align. Even now they're waiting to fire Diaz until the end of the year so his buyout is cheaper, when this era pretty much dictates that you pony up to make a great hire or you depend on dumb luck or settle for mediocrity.

This week, a bunch of former players are hosting a roundtable to talk about the state of the program. The roundtable is closed-door but they are releasing some/all of the footage from the roundtable in the next couple of weeks. Former players have been TRYING desperately to find support from the powers that be there for years, but that momentum just does not exist anymore. The former players are probably going to say the same thing that they've been saying for 15 years - we built something special that you (AD) completely dismantled. You abandoned football and kicked out donors years ago, and you can't just turn back to 2006 and decide to take football seriously again.

I don't think they'll ever go back to pre-Schnellenberger lows that they had in the 70's and prior. I also think that the special circumstances that aligned to allow for their rise in the 80's and maintained success/dominance through the early 00's, do not exist anymore. You can't recreate the "State of Miami" in South Florida. You can't get away with whatever they had to do to get and keep elite talent by any means necessary. You can't kick every other program out of S Fla now that the secret has been out for decades. Handlers, local coaches, players, agents all know their options and worth now. Miami has burned some bridges locally as well, to the benefit of Alabama, Ohio State, Florida, etc etc.

Miami has more in common with USC than a lot of other schools. If he didn't like the way that place was run he's probably not going to be into Miami.

Kiffin at Florida makes way more sense, or him just staying put to continue building OIe Miss and biding his time until Saban retires like everyone else. Kiffin will get way more support, resources, and backing at Ole Miss than he would at Miami.

Full context - aside from when we've played them, I've always enjoyed following Miami. I loved their attitude, I loved that they bullied Florida. They were renegades in every sense of the word. I must have read Cane Mutiny by Bruce Feldman 10 times. The story about them going to LSU at night, coming out of the tunnel and LSU had put Mike The Tiger's cage right at the entrance to scare the city boys from Miami. The Miami players literally screamed/roared at the tiger and shook his cage, then beat the hell out of LSU in their own house. Then ESPN's The U came out and I thought Miami would come back. I would love nothing more than for Kiffin to go to Miami and revive a fledgling, directionless program that has a ton of potential. I just see so many challenges that did not exist the first time that Miami rose. For our sake, we need Miami to keep players away from Bama and Florida.

 

[mrMet]

I hope so.




I agree that those 3 are a great trio to headline their big board. If Miami got Cristobal this year, that would signal a complete 180 from the direction that the program has been going. Kiffin or Clawson would be great there as well, if football was all that mattered.

Miami cannot do what they did in the 80's-00's that made them elite. They have a lot of academics and pointexters at the top running the university now that are ashamed of their former image as The U. They were embarrassed by the Yahoo Sports story on Shapiro that turned the program inside out. They want to go to academic conferences and events and get the same oohs and ahs that their colleagues from Duke get. Football has not been the focus there.

Maybe that will change? I don't know.

They have a hard enough time getting fans and the community to commit fully. They are competing with other professional sports, the climate, the fact that there is so much more to do in the city. Not to mention the campus is in Coral Gables, which is 35 minutes west of South Beach, and 35 minutes south of Hard Rock Stadium where they play. Even when the fans and community buy in, the big money donors that want the school to spend money on academics are not cutting the checks that a program like Miami needs. Going to Miami isn't really the "college experience" that you get at most other major universities, especially ones where football is a priority.

Look at their last couple of hires - Richt, who they were happy to luck into, but was obviously not an elite coach, and Diaz, who is basically their Dooley, and they considered themselves lucky to have those stars align. Even now they're waiting to fire Diaz until the end of the year so his buyout is cheaper, when this era pretty much dictates that you pony up to make a great hire or you depend on dumb luck or settle for mediocrity.

This week, a bunch of former players are hosting a roundtable to talk about the state of the program. The roundtable is closed-door but they are releasing some/all of the footage from the roundtable in the next couple of weeks. Former players have been TRYING desperately to find support from the powers that be there for years, but that momentum just does not exist anymore. The former players are probably going to say the same thing that they've been saying for 15 years - we built something special that you (AD) completely dismantled. You abandoned football and kicked out donors years ago, and you can't just turn back to 2006 and decide to take football seriously again.

I don't think they'll ever go back to pre-Schnellenberger lows that they had in the 70's and prior. I also think that the special circumstances that aligned to allow for their rise in the 80's and maintained success/dominance through the early 00's, do not exist anymore. You can't recreate the "State of Miami" in South Florida. You can't get away with whatever they had to do to get and keep elite talent by any means necessary. You can't kick every other program out of S Fla now that the secret has been out for decades. Handlers, local coaches, players, agents all know their options and worth now. Miami has burned some bridges locally as well, to the benefit of Alabama, Ohio State, Florida, etc etc.

Miami has more in common with USC than a lot of other schools. If he didn't like the way that place was run he's probably not going to be into Miami.

Kiffin at Florida makes way more sense, or him just staying put to continue building OIe Miss and biding his time until Saban retires like everyone else. Kiffin will get way more support, resources, and backing at Ole Miss than he would at Miami.

Full context - aside from when we've played them, I've always enjoyed following Miami. I loved their attitude, I loved that they bullied Florida. I must have read Cane Mutiny by Bruce Feldman 10 times. Then ESPN's The U came out and I thought Miami would come back. I would love nothing more than for Kiffin to go to Miami and revive a fledgling, directionless program that has a ton of potential. I just see so many challenges that did not exist the first time that Miami rose. For our sake, we need Miami to keep players away from Bama and Florida.

Feels like part of the issue is the stadium being so far away from campus

 

[BigSteve09]

Feels like part of the issue is the stadium being so far away from campus

That's part of it, here's another reply from an article that I saw that put it concisely:

Miami is a small school historically that has a large slew of local fans in the same vein as USC. The issue is that the AD abandoned the football program under Shalala, and whatever donors there were, were essentially pushed out. So it’s really hard to just come back and build an atmosphere that isn’t there

Miami isn’t really a healthy program and from a state atmosphere, UF/FSU own it. So tack that onto Ohio State/Alabama/insert SEC program here picking up Miami kids (Amari Cooper, Surtain, Ridley, etc.) and the program has regressed in all facets from the 1980’s relative to competition. They need to recruit kids in Miami to thrive but most of the Miami kids are going elsewhere for better future prospects.

No on-campus stadium, or college gameday experience.
Haven't won a conference championship since joining the ACC (their last conference title was a SHARED title in 2003)
Their facilities have been mocked for years, which has also contributed to not developing the elite guys that they DO end up getting.
No good cocaine anymore.

 

[johnfnkelly]

Omari really starting to come on. Expect him to be a force next year.

Baron, Thomas, Elijah, BY could be a really disruptive front 4. Need some depth behind em.

Need another mobile inside guy like Omari to step up

 

[drvenner]

It's his job to get it right, he did, and he has demonstrated the ability to do so time and again. Luck favors the prepared and luck favors the capable...which suggests it ain't luck at all.

Agree. It is not like he went to some random dude not even on his list. Heupel was always part of the plan. He may not have been Plan A, but he was part of the plan and that takes a great deal of the luck factor away, IMO.

 

[TheRain]

 

[Pridedad]

Wow.

He has set moral victories as his team goals.

They got a good one there.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

It's his job to get it right, he did, and he has demonstrated the ability to do so time and again. Luck favors the prepared and luck favors the capable...which suggests it ain't luck at all.

I literally just said yesterday that it is "better to be lucky than good, but DW is actually lucky and good"...so you can quit arguing with me now.

 

[pierce60]

 

[drvenner]

Idk Jave. I wouldnt put a thing past a drunk, pissed off, idiot Gators fan.

Or talking loudly about it in her vicinity, knowing that she would hear it.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

It happens at high school level too….My son was a freshman goalie starting on the varsity soccer team and I thought my wife was going to whip this one woman talking about our son. LOL

Was he playing badly?

 

[johnfnkelly]

Hope Tucker pans out. A good MSU hurts Kentucky.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Justin Rogers transfer there if he decides to leave

 

[johnfnkelly]

JG's parents did it for 4 years. Tell her to get tougher skin.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

No “fan” should ever talk sh*t to a players family.

Full stop.

If people in the stands were just talking to each other about it and she overhead that’s a little different.

Agreed

 

[engineerVOL]

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

You're not wrong here.

But for the record, I hate the phrase full stop. Can we please eliminate this from the VN vocabulary. It's too Wes Ruckerish and Hillary Clintonish for my ears

Here is some more words I would nominate..."Product"..."Brand" and last but not least.."Optics"

Those phrases used when talking about Tennessee sports are like fingernails on a chalkboard to me..

 

[engineerVOL]

Here is some more words I would nominate..."Product"..."Brand" and last but not least.."Optics"

Those phrases used when talking about Tennessee sports are like fingernails on a chalkboard to me..

Never, ever, admit your pet peeves on VN. You have yourself to blame.