Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV

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#170,151
#170,151
SweetasSoda said:
It’s ridiculous! We’re they not full of doom last year that Tennessee would have a losing record and recruiting would be horrible? So there’s two ways to spin this. The way they have. And… Despite last year’s predictions for Tennessee, they had a winning record, played better than most expected, had some exciting games and an exciting offense, and are doing far better in recruiting than we thought this time last year. I mean how many this time last year would have thought that we would be in it for 3 5* players…get one…finish a very close 2nd for the other 2??? If you look at it that way we are doing phenomenal. It’s all about the spin, and Tennessee media always spins it the worst way possible for the Vols. So does the national media. 😡
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i can't tell you the last time i read a KNS story on tennessee football. sounds like it's still a wise decision.;)
 
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#170,153
#170,153
Fun coupon VOL said:
I would feel better if the Will guy would tell us how much they are short. I also, don’t like hearing that hundred millionaires and billionaires within the fan base are tapped out. Funds are not being allocated properly if that is the case.
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they're not tapped out, but they have to make decisions on where their money goes. as @LA Vol pointed out, many of the big donors have allocated millions of dollars in facilities and other academic related projects.

the university doesn't want that money to suddenly disappear and go to a collective, but they also want the athletics program to continue on it's current trajectory.

so it's about how donors make decisions on what they do with the money they've set aside for UT and UT Sports.

as for Spyre, i think it's probably a foregone conclusion that the one guy TN has to absolutely get was Nico. mission accomplished. im not sure it's all eggs in one basket type of deal, but they clearly have a board, some type of valuation, and in the cases of FM and CT, they were able to get more/equal. we stuck to our guns. i dont' necessarily like it, but i will say that in the case of CT, he went to where he always wanted to go, so "more" wasn't the only factor. we got gundy'd there. with FM, it felt more like a mercenary move, where money/deals were the big factor. i understand he had previous relationships with the staff there. it still didn't feel like he was "going home" per se. who knows.

as a little time separates from Monday, i think it's far more important we get the meat of this class on board, than any individual, regardless of ranking.

to me, these are the guys that will matter in this classs:
July 7th 4:30PM - Cameron Seldon - WR/RB - (1) ‘23 - VA ATH Cameron Seldon | VolNation.com
Early July - Stanton Ramil - OL - (1) ‘23 - AL OT Stanton Ramil | VolNation.com
Mid July - Hunter Osborne - DE - (1) ‘23 - AL DL Hunter Osborne | VolNation.com
Mid July - Nathan Leacock - WR - (2) ‘23 - NC WR Nathan Leacock | VolNation.com
Mid July - Lucas Simmons - OL - (2) ‘23 - FL OT Lucas Simmons | VolNation.com
July 28th - Ja’Keem Jackson - CB - (1) ‘23 - FL CB Ja’Keem Jackson | VolNation.com
August 5th - Chandavian Bradley - DE - (1) ‘23 - MO EDGE Chandavian Bradley | VolNation.com

need to get 4-5 of these guys if at all possible. the three i think are the toughest to get would be osborne, simmons and jackson. the others....i think we have great shots with.
 
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#170,154
#170,154
peaygolf said:
If CJH goes 7-6, 7-6, 8-5 in his first three seasons…..he ain’t getting fired
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Well, he should... but that's not what was posted.

It really doesn't take forever to prove you can coach and recruit. I'm not talking about recruiting rankings but finding the talent needed to win and compete at a high level. Over the last 40 years there are maybe a handful of coaches who started out like was suggested in that post for the first 3 years and then went on to have success at that particular school.

Also the fans, boosters, and recruits play into it. Fans will stop showing up if he goes 7-6, 8-5, and 7-6. They'll get noisy and restless. They'll stop making contributions as will boosters.

Players on 7 win teams don't get top tier NIL money. NIL support won't be as strong for a 7 win team either. It has always been difficult to recruit to a coach that doesn't show he can win.... NIL just makes it much worse as does the portal.

I'm not talking about "fair". None of it is fair. Fair might be that a guy got 5 or 6 years with everyone just "trusting" that things will get better... regardless that isn't reality.
 
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#170,155
#170,155
sjt18 said:
Well, he should... but that's not what was posted.

It really doesn't take forever to prove you can coach and recruit. I'm not talking about recruiting rankings but finding the talent needed to win and compete at a high level. Over the last 40 years there are maybe a handful of coaches who started out like was suggested in that post for the first 3 years and then went on to have success at that particular school.

Also the fans, boosters, and recruits play into it. Fans will stop showing up if he goes 7-6, 8-5, and 7-6. They'll get noisy and restless. They'll stop making contributions as will boosters.

Players on 7 win teams don't get top tier NIL money. NIL support won't be as strong for a 7 win team either. It has always been difficult to recruit to a coach that doesn't show he can win.... NIL just makes it much worse as does the portal.

I'm not talking about "fair". None of it is fair. Fair might be that a guy got 5 or 6 years with everyone just "trusting" that things will get better... regardless that isn't reality.
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not wrong. but i'm just not ready to talk about this as a possiblity. lol.
 
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#170,157
#170,157
LittleVol said:
Heupel is young. You want him fired because he took 5 years to build us into a 10 + win program? He could be our coach for 25 years.
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What I "want" is not relevant. It was your ironclad prediction btw so all of this is hypothetical based on YOUR assumptions which may or more likely may not be accurate.

The reality is that first and foremost he needs talent. One of the biggest considerations for the best talent has always been whether they'll get a chance to play for a winner. Jones actually did better than you are projecting for Heupel... and by year three after all that squandered talent and big game chokes... recruits stopped listening.

Now CFB complicates that further with NIL. Successful programs are going to bring in more NIL money. You cannot ignore that influence on recruiting. Spyre can't sell marketing with guys who play on 7 win teams at UT. Boosters at various levels poured money into Spyre... with the level of losing you suggest that will dry up.

Fans will stop showing up and will get noisy. You may not but we've both seen this play before. We've seen Neyland with 20,000 empty seats or worse yet seas of crimson, red, or blue.

If he wins 10+ for 20 years....id say that is worth it.
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If I find gold on my farm... I'll retire. But that isn't likely. Nor is it likely that any coach at UT can do what you suggest and recruit at a level to get better... or sustain fan support to keep the job. It isn't fair. It isn't about fair. It is about what convinces recruits and the level of expectations fans do... and frankly should... have.

I like Heupel. I like him better than any coach UT has had over the last 30+ years. I think he's a brilliant coach and a great leader. Easily the best leader based on what we are able to see over my time following the Vols. None of that changes the fact that he needs players to get success... and success to get players.
 
#170,158
#170,158
jakez4ut said:
not wrong. but i'm just not ready to talk about this as a possiblity. lol.
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Yeah. I didn't like the hypothetical either. I think 8-9 regular season wins this year are very realistic. A bowl win gets them to 9-10. If he's the right coach then his system and culture begins to carry them after that though there could be a drop off after losing Hooker.

If he's the right guy then UVA in year 3 shouldn't be a loss. That gets UT to 4 wins. Mizzou and Vandy should essentially be locks. UK and USCe by then should be reasonably confident wins- that's 8 wins. UF should be on the board. Bama and UGA may be out of range for a little while longer but it should be competitive. Not sure who the other West opponent will be.

If he's the right guy then I simply do not assume 5 losses in year 3.
 
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#170,161
#170,161
BelieveTheHeup93 said:
Sam Pittman and Lane Kiffin have shown it doesn’t take 5 years to rebuild a respectable program. With the way the transfer portal allows coaches to do an almost complete overhaul of a roster in 2 years if a coach can’t reach 10 regular season wins by year 3 or 4 it’s never going to happen
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I'd argue that Pittman and Kiffin have shown it doesn't take 5 years to build a competitive team, which is different than a respectable program. Occasionally, a program that is fairly average on the whole can peak and have a good season, or two. Building a program still takes multiple years to instill your culture and recruit/develop an entire team of individuals on the same page.
 
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#170,162
#170,162
jakez4ut said:
they're not tapped out, but they have to make decisions on where their money goes. as @LA Vol pointed out, many of the big donors have allocated millions of dollars in facilities and other academic related projects.

the university doesn't want that money to suddenly disappear and go to a collective, but they also want the athletics program to continue on it's current trajectory.

so it's about how donors make decisions on what they do with the money they've set aside for UT and UT Sports.

as for Spyre, i think it's probably a foregone conclusion that the one guy TN has to absolutely get was Nico. mission accomplished. im not sure it's all eggs in one basket type of deal, but they clearly have a board, some type of valuation, and in the cases of FM and CT, they were able to get more/equal. we stuck to our guns. i dont' necessarily like it, but i will say that in the case of CT, he went to where he always wanted to go, so "more" wasn't the only factor. we got gundy'd there. with FM, it felt more like a mercenary move, where money/deals were the big factor. i understand he had previous relationships with the staff there. it still didn't feel like he was "going home" per se. who knows.

as a little time separates from Monday, i think it's far more important we get the meat of this class on board, than any individual, regardless of ranking.

to me, these are the guys that will matter in this classs:
July 7th 4:30PM - Cameron Seldon - WR/RB - (1) ‘23 - VA ATH Cameron Seldon | VolNation.com
Early July - Stanton Ramil - OL - (1) ‘23 - AL OT Stanton Ramil | VolNation.com
Mid July - Hunter Osborne - DE - (1) ‘23 - AL DL Hunter Osborne | VolNation.com
Mid July - Nathan Leacock - WR - (2) ‘23 - NC WR Nathan Leacock | VolNation.com
Mid July - Lucas Simmons - OL - (2) ‘23 - FL OT Lucas Simmons | VolNation.com
July 28th - Ja’Keem Jackson - CB - (1) ‘23 - FL CB Ja’Keem Jackson | VolNation.com
August 5th - Chandavian Bradley - DE - (1) ‘23 - MO EDGE Chandavian Bradley | VolNation.com

need to get 4-5 of these guys if at all possible. the three i think are the toughest to get would be osborne, simmons and jackson. the others....i think we have great shots with.
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Great post!!!

Need 2 of the 3 OL's. Seldon, Leacock and Bradley. And then one of the two corners left on the board Jackson/Matthews if possible.
 
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#170,163
#170,163
Fun coupon VOL said:
I would feel better if the Will guy would tell us how much they are short. I also, don’t like hearing that hundred millionaires and billionaires within the fan base are tapped out. Funds are not being allocated properly if that is the case.
Click to expand...

You have to realize that many of the millionaires became wealthy for a reason- by spending money in a strategic way. That doesn't mean they are all frugal, but they also have commitments to the school and not to individual players. Donating to Spyre is not tax deductible, so a big donor with a business would have to pay NIL through his business to write off the expense. I would have thought we would have heard about a UT athlete advertising for a big business, but so far, it's only been small ones. I am confident that we have some donors putting up good money, but not all of them are going to agree to spend it on the same thing.

Edit: Also, regardless of what is being paid, there aren't unlimited funds. This has been said multiple times, but our staff evaluates what kind of package to give a player. If the $4 million number is correct for FM, then I understand why our staff didn't bother. Those funds can be allocated for several solid OL recruits and not just one.
 
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#170,173
#170,173
sjt18 said:
Well, he should... but that's not what was posted.

It really doesn't take forever to prove you can coach and recruit. I'm not talking about recruiting rankings but finding the talent needed to win and compete at a high level. Over the last 40 years there are maybe a handful of coaches who started out like was suggested in that post for the first 3 years and then went on to have success at that particular school.

Also the fans, boosters, and recruits play into it. Fans will stop showing up if he goes 7-6, 8-5, and 7-6. They'll get noisy and restless. They'll stop making contributions as will boosters.

Players on 7 win teams don't get top tier NIL money. NIL support won't be as strong for a 7 win team either. It has always been difficult to recruit to a coach that doesn't show he can win.... NIL just makes it much worse as does the portal.

I'm not talking about "fair". None of it is fair. Fair might be that a guy got 5 or 6 years with everyone just "trusting" that things will get better... regardless that isn't reality.
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7-8 wins in this conference with the "crap show" CJH took over....that is successful. NOT what is wanted or expected, but a success. After that.........9-10 wins should become the norm for most seasons. Then I'll start to judge.

BOT was right...gotta give guys a chance. Stop the revolving door...........
 
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#170,175
#170,175
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
This is completely unrelated but I came across this during my travels and though it was too good not to share...

HsEULkE.jpeg
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Does Middle have a little of both?
 
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