Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI

[Enki_Amenra]

 

[BigSteve09]

Reading the PAC 12 fan posts on other sites has been surreal this week. USC elitists, Oregon optimists (last night) and defeatists (this morning), Arizona insanity, WSU/OSU fans super bummed out.

The revelations of the haves and have nots of these realignment deals are brutal

 

[Orange_Crush]

But do those private organizations get to tell their employees what they can do when they are not at work “here”…??? Do they own them like slaves? Or should the employee get to go have a second job? The athlete does everything by the rules while at the university going to school and playing the sport. The NCAA should have rules governing that. They should not be able to make rules about making money off of NIL that they are working so hard to advance. That is not in the “here” of the NCAA. Isn’t that exactly what the Supreme Court ruled?

Yah. They do. The employee can either choose to abide and be employed, or seek employment elsewhere.

Pull up the social media policy of some companies. They can fire you for what you post of Twitter/Facebook/etc.

Hell, tennessee is an at-will state. They don't even have to give a reason.

The fact of the matter is that employment is a contract, and each side has the freedom (within certain legal limits) to establish their side of the contract. It's a wonderful part of living in a free country.

Some of y'all sound like you're pressing for a Soviet nanny state where the gov't defines every little aspect of personal and corporate life. I'm not sure I would want to live in the place some are describing here.

 

[jave36]

5 years with this hottieView attachment 567624

Sorry to disagree with you ma'am, he looks OK but hottie is a stretch.

 

[BigSteve09]

Gross

 

[Orange_Crush]

I believe @Orange_Crush said it well last month, but yes, this seems like a a situation of distinguishing minimals/maximals.

Just because a state allows something, DOES NOT mean an entity must allow it as well within its association.

The state's allowance is stating what it is willing to punish based on, not other entities. It's not stating some absolute right that others can't infringe upon.

Yes. A lot of the folks misunderstanding this are church folks. Let the state try to force alcohol or certain sexual preferences into their church's elder board, and see if the perspective changes.

 

[Skullbone]

Nolan Ryan……ya don’t mess with him…..

I'll never forget that. I can remember going into walmart a couple months afterwards and they had displays set up selling commemorative cards and plaques of Nolan Ryan giving Robin those punches in a headlock.

 

[Wickman]

 

[SweetasSoda]

View attachment 567690

Wow. Are they not afraid of UCLA taking the talent? I absolutely hate all this.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Gross

They deserve everything headed their way.

 

[TheRain]

Yes. A lot of the folks misunderstanding this are church folks. Let the state try to force alcohol or certain sexual preferences into their church's elder board, and see if the perspective changes.

If it's the law and withstands legal challenge, it would be the law... Likes would not matter.

The NCAA can attempt to ignore the law but the courts would decide and the NCAA would lose.

 

[Orange Studs]

From the War Room
On Recruiting

RECRUITING

Defensive lineman Williams NWaneri will announce his decision on August 14th. There are lots of different scenarios out there if you ask around. You might get three or four different answers. What we know is Tennessee has continued to have steady dialogue with him this week. He is on a family vacation as football starts later for him. As we said last week, Tennessee is still battling and in the thick of it. We will continue to make calls the next couple of weeks as it draws near.

Kamarion Franklin is closing in on a decision and as we have said, Auburn would be a major player in this thing and that is definitely the case. The Tigers are trending hard for Franklin heading into his an announcement.

Another players seemingly getting close to a decision is Jordan Ross. Let’s face it, he has been all over the map so we will probably have to see him announce a date to feel like it’s real. Several schools have seemingly backed off and went in other directions including Florida and Georgia.

Alabama has never made a real move on him and Auburn has been slow to engage. LSU is someone you hear associated with Ross along with the Vols. The sooner he pulls the trigger the better Tennessee’s chances. Auburn is one that could come back around later much like they did with Sylvester Smith last season.

Virginia linebacker Chris Cole had a great visit last weekend but as of right now, we aren’t willing to say Tennessee has done enough to be the favorite. We felt like it would be UGA and the Vols, but Miami seems to be hanging in there better than many thought. Cole could still take an official visit to Tennessee. If he does it would likely be in September.

One prospect Tennessee continues to keep close tabs on is Kam Mikell. He is in no hurry to make a decision, as he plans to do that sometime after OV’ing here in November for the Georgia game. His relationship with Kelsey Pope and Josh Heupel has only continued to grow over the last month. While Georgia remains a factor and is recruiting him as a defense back, there is a growing belief he prefers the offensive side of the football. He also has not ruled out a return visit to Knoxville for another game before his OV in November.

In talking to Ryan Wingo again earlier this week, it is clear he covets his relationship with the staff and that is why Tennessee will be in this one until the end. The fact he also drove cross country for a one-day visit before hopping on a plane to Texas A&M says a lot about his interest level as well. This one is going to have more twists and turns between now and December, but he admits the Vols have been a constant for him for months and for good reason.

EDGE Danny Okoye is one that took some trips during the open recruiting week. He had a strong showing at an Alabama camp and has seen more interest from the Crimson Tide since. He also went back to in-state Oklahoma for another visit that went well. But in our estimation, Tennessee is still in good shape here as he looks to make a decision later in the fall. He will OV to Knoxville in September for the South Carolina game.

On a non-recruiting note, since coming home, Okoye put up his new personal best on dead lift of 750 pounds, beating his target goal by 25 pounds and more than tripling his body weight.

We continue to hear positive things about Nasir Smith and Tennessee. He has not taken many recruiting visits in general, which is why he currently wants to use his official visit to Tennessee in September before making any decision. He plans to be in town for the South Carolina game. In talking to folks around Georgia, there is a sense that there is a lot of untapped potential there. He has only been playing football for a couple of years now, but his athleticism is something frequently mentioned. This could be a big fall for him.

Tennessee has continued to work on Florida commit Amaris Williams. How the Gators play this fall could determine how much he looks around or if he visits.

 

[BigSteve09]

realignment is about to get drunk, buckle up

 

[Orange_Crush]

If it's the law and withstands legal challenge, it would be the law... Likes would not matter.

The NCAA can attempt to ignore the law but the courts would decide and the NCAA would lose.

The argument being addressed is basically that stayed law equates to institution policy. That is not the case. If a state tries to pass a law that limits an institution's ability to self- govern, that law would conceivably go through Supreme Court and constitutional argument.

To my point, a recent example has been churches/ pastors officiating gay marriages. Homosexual rights to marriage do not dictate freedom of religious beliefs.

Homosexuals don't want government in their bedrooms. Churches don't want the government in their pulpits. Yet some here are arguing that government mandate should be the only limiting factor to freedoms, as opposed to personal freedoms.

 

[TheBigOne10]

Sorry to disagree with you ma'am, he looks OK but hottie is a stretch.

 

[Jackcrevol]

From the War Room
On Recruiting

RECRUITING

Defensive lineman Williams NWaneri will announce his decision on August 14th. There are lots of different scenarios out there if you ask around. You might get three or four different answers. What we know is Tennessee has continued to have steady dialogue with him this week. He is on a family vacation as football starts later for him. As we said last week, Tennessee is still battling and in the thick of it. We will continue to make calls the next couple of weeks as it draws near.

Kamarion Franklin is closing in on a decision and as we have said, Auburn would be a major player in this thing and that is definitely the case. The Tigers are trending hard for Franklin heading into his an announcement.

Another players seemingly getting close to a decision is Jordan Ross. Let’s face it, he has been all over the map so we will probably have to see him announce a date to feel like it’s real. Several schools have seemingly backed off and went in other directions including Florida and Georgia.

Alabama has never made a real move on him and Auburn has been slow to engage. LSU is someone you hear associated with Ross along with the Vols. The sooner he pulls the trigger the better Tennessee’s chances. Auburn is one that could come back around later much like they did with Sylvester Smith last season.

Virginia linebacker Chris Cole had a great visit last weekend but as of right now, we aren’t willing to say Tennessee has done enough to be the favorite. We felt like it would be UGA and the Vols, but Miami seems to be hanging in there better than many thought. Cole could still take an official visit to Tennessee. If he does it would likely be in September.

One prospect Tennessee continues to keep close tabs on is Kam Mikell. He is in no hurry to make a decision, as he plans to do that sometime after OV’ing here in November for the Georgia game. His relationship with Kelsey Pope and Josh Heupel has only continued to grow over the last month. While Georgia remains a factor and is recruiting him as a defense back, there is a growing belief he prefers the offensive side of the football. He also has not ruled out a return visit to Knoxville for another game before his OV in November.

In talking to Ryan Wingo again earlier this week, it is clear he covets his relationship with the staff and that is why Tennessee will be in this one until the end. The fact he also drove cross country for a one-day visit before hopping on a plane to Texas A&M says a lot about his interest level as well. This one is going to have more twists and turns between now and December, but he admits the Vols have been a constant for him for months and for good reason.

EDGE Danny Okoye is one that took some trips during the open recruiting week. He had a strong showing at an Alabama camp and has seen more interest from the Crimson Tide since. He also went back to in-state Oklahoma for another visit that went well. But in our estimation, Tennessee is still in good shape here as he looks to make a decision later in the fall. He will OV to Knoxville in September for the South Carolina game.

On a non-recruiting note, since coming home, Okoye put up his new personal best on dead lift of 750 pounds, beating his target goal by 25 pounds and more than tripling his body weight.

We continue to hear positive things about Nasir Smith and Tennessee. He has not taken many recruiting visits in general, which is why he currently wants to use his official visit to Tennessee in September before making any decision. He plans to be in town for the South Carolina game. In talking to folks around Georgia, there is a sense that there is a lot of untapped potential there. He has only been playing football for a couple of years now, but his athleticism is something frequently mentioned. This could be a big fall for him.

Tennessee has continued to work on Florida commit Amaris Williams. How the Gators play this fall could determine how much he looks around or if he visits.

Wow. Not to be negative, not the news you want to hear on DL. We gotta close some.

 

[SweetasSoda]

Yah. They do. The employee can either choose to abide and be employed, or seek employment elsewhere.

Pull up the social media policy of some companies. They can fire you for what you post of Twitter/Facebook/etc.

Hell, tennessee is an at-will state. They don't even have to give a reason.

The fact of the matter is that employment is a contract, and each side has the freedom (within certain legal limits) to establish their side of the contract. It's a wonderful part of living in a free country.

Some of y'all sound like you're pressing for a Soviet nanny state where the gov't defines every little aspect of personal and corporate life. I'm not sure I would want to live in the place some are describing here.

Hmmm…to me it sounds like you are describing a Soviet nanny state where the NCAA controls every aspect of the athletes life. Not slavery because they chose it but indentured servant.

You just said legal limits. There are legal limits to the amount of control an employer can have on an employee. The Supreme Court has ruled that the NCAA can no longer have control of an athlete’s NIL. So I don’t know why exactly anyone is arguing they can. I asked and got no answer…what exactly is the NCAA planning on doing to control NIL? Limit the amount? I keep hearing them threatening. And keep hearing the big cheaters complaining.

 

[SweetasSoda]

Yes. A lot of the folks misunderstanding this are church folks. Let the state try to force alcohol or certain sexual preferences into their church's elder board, and see if the perspective changes.

Church folk here, and obviously that’s not happening. Also don’t see what that has to do with you not understanding that the Supreme Court has ruled that the NCAA cannot control NIL.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

 

[SweetasSoda]

The argument being addressed is basically that stayed law equates to institution policy. That is not the case. If a state tries to pass a law that limits an institution's ability to self- govern, that law would conceivably go through Supreme Court and constitutional argument.

To my point, a recent example has been churches/ pastors officiating gay marriages. Homosexual rights to marriage do not dictate freedom of religious beliefs.

Homosexuals don't want government in their bedrooms. Churches don't want the government in their pulpits. Yet some here are arguing that government mandate should be the only limiting factor to freedoms, as opposed to personal freedoms.

Nope…we are arguing that it has already went through the court system all the way up to the Supreme Court that the NCAA cannot control “outside” its organization what an athlete can earn using their NIL. That is in no way saying what they can or cannot do inside the organization. They completely have control of that.

 

[SweetasSoda]

View attachment 567727

That’s unreal.

 

[Weezer]

Why do player threads always turn into a pissing contest?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Hmmm…to me it sounds like you are describing a Soviet nanny state where the NCAA controls every aspect of the athletes life. Not slavery because they chose it but indentured servant.

You just said legal limits. There are legal limits to the amount of control an employer can have on an employee. The Supreme Court has ruled that the NCAA can no longer have control of an athlete’s NIL. So I don’t know why exactly anyone is arguing they can. I asked and got no answer…what exactly is the NCAA planning on doing to control NIL? Limit the amount? I keep hearing them threatening. And keep hearing the big cheaters complaining.

For the record, I'm not a fan of the NCAA controlling NIL. I was responding to posts that were equating state minimum limits (legal allowance) to institutional maximum limits (institutional membership). As example, the union post that insinuated that if a state allows something, companies needed to allow a well.

I was merely giving example that that is not the case and all sides should agree if they thought about it.

I'm glad the Supreme Court sided with athletes over NCAA on NIL.

This discuss was about the new state laws. Well see if they stand up against the NCAA on their rights to institutional standards of enforcement.

This is a more complicated issue than "NCAA bad" and "yay government control!" Because the rights to self determination that you allow taken from your "enemy" you allowed to be taken away from yourself.

On one hand, do athletes have the rights to their NIL? On the other, does the NCAA as an organization have the right to dictate to their member schools what activity they will have in the athletes nil and what rights to rule enforcement they have?

That's what is at stake with the state laws.

That's what will need to be settled and it's a complex discussion.

 

[volinbama256]

Wow. Are they not afraid of UCLA taking the talent? I absolutely hate all this.

Agree-- this has all gotten so crazy... what will the PAC-12 even look like once the dust settles?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Nope…we are arguing that it has already went through the court system all the way up to the Supreme Court that the NCAA cannot control “outside” its organization what an athlete can earn using their NIL. That is in no way saying what they can or cannot do inside the organization. They completely have control of that.

That's not the discussion I was having. I thought we were discussing the new state laws that are trying to limit the NCAA and their ability to limit member institutions and ability to monitor and encircled their rules.