Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI

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#2,326
#2,326
Raw Passing Defense Stats:

Willie Era
2022: 39.7 attempts per game, 63.7%, 287.0 YPG, 1.8 TDs per game allowed, 0.8 INTs per game (DC - Banks)
2021: 37.7 attempts per game, 61.2%, 273.2 YPG, 1.8 TDs per game allowed, 1.0 INTs per game (DC - Banks)
2016: 33.2 attempts per game, 55.1%, 230.7 YPG, 1.4 TDs per game allowed, 0.8 INTs per game (DC - Shoop)
2015: 33.4 attempts per game, 50.7%, 210.4 YPG, 1.3 TDs per game allowed, 0.9 INTs per game (DC - Jancek)
2014: 29.0 attempts per game, 53.3%, 196.2 YPG, 1.2 TDs per game allowed, 1.2 INTs per game (DC - Jancek)
2013: 29.5 attempts per game, 56.5%, 211.1 YPG, 1.5 TDs per game allowed, 1.2 INTs per game (DC - Jancek)

Now keep in mind Willie is just the secondary coach during this time, gotta put some blame/credit on the DC as well since typically a positional coach is working to their philosophies.

I believe the biggest difference is that Banks prefers to play zone more in coverage. Which has led to more cushion and thus a higher completion % allowed, more yards, and less pressure on the catch (PDs/INTs) because our secondary guys aren't as close to the WRs as they would be running man.

Monte Kiffin's 2009 defense was about as elite as you could have hoped for though.

22.2 ppg (38th)
56% completion (34th)
169.2 passing yards (12th)
0.4 passing TDs (1st)
1.1 fumbles (18th)
0.8 INTs (75th)
1.8 TOs (58th)

Weak against the run though:
149.5 rushing yards (65th)
1.5 rushing TDs (66th)

They only saw 65.5 snaps a game though (42nd lowest) and Lane's offense was very time of possession heavy. They also were 11th in fewest penalties a game at 5.2.

We lead the country in defensive penalties at 8.9 a game and we finished 12th in plays at 74.2.

Two very different eras of ball. Monte was an elite DC, but his style of defense focused on discipline and tackling. Rico McCoy & Eric Berry were huge for him and he inherited those veterans.


Ultimately I think Tim Banks is the problem with our secondary/passing defense more than Willie. So firing Willie likely wouldn't fix the issue, and this is the first class where he's been able to land some studs in the secondary so I'd like to see where we are after another year or two.
 
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#2,329
#2,329
MoCo_Vol said:
Raw Passing Defense Stats:

Willie Era
2022: 39.7 attempts per game, 63.7%, 287.0 YPG, 1.8 TDs per game allowed, 0.8 INTs per game (DC - Banks)
2021: 37.7 attempts per game, 61.2%, 273.2 YPG, 1.8 TDs per game allowed, 1.0 INTs per game (DC - Banks)
2016: 33.2 attempts per game, 55.1%, 230.7 YPG, 1.4 TDs per game allowed, 0.8 INTs per game (DC - Shoop)
2015: 33.4 attempts per game, 50.7%, 210.4 YPG, 1.3 TDs per game allowed, 0.9 INTs per game (DC - Jancek)
2014: 29.0 attempts per game, 53.3%, 196.2 YPG, 1.2 TDs per game allowed, 1.2 INTs per game (DC - Jancek)
2013: 29.5 attempts per game, 56.5%, 211.1 YPG, 1.5 TDs per game allowed, 1.2 INTs per game (DC - Jancek)

Now keep in mind Willie is just the secondary coach during this time, gotta put some blame/credit on the DC as well since typically a positional coach is working to their philosophies.

I believe the biggest difference is that Banks prefers to play zone more in coverage. Which has led to more cushion and thus a higher completion % allowed, more yards, and less pressure on the catch (PDs/INTs) because our secondary guys aren't as close to the WRs as they would be running man.

Monte Kiffin's 2009 defense was about as elite as you could have hoped for though.

22.2 ppg (38th)
56% completion (34th)
169.2 passing yards (12th)
0.4 passing TDs (1st)
1.1 fumbles (18th)
0.8 INTs (75th)
1.8 TOs (58th)

Weak against the run though:
149.5 rushing yards (65th)
1.5 rushing TDs (66th)

They only saw 65.5 snaps a game though (42nd lowest) and Lane's offense was very time of possession heavy. They also were 11th in fewest penalties a game at 5.2.

We lead the country in defensive penalties at 8.9 a game and we finished 12th in plays at 74.2.

Two very different eras of ball. Monte was an elite DC, but his style of defense focused on discipline and tackling. Rico McCoy & Eric Berry were huge for him and he inherited those veterans.


Ultimately I think Tim Banks is the problem with our secondary/passing defense more than Willie. So firing Willie likely wouldn't fix the issue, and this is the first class where he's been able to land some studs in the secondary so I'd like to see where we are after another year or two.
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During the season, I was thinking more Willie or just lack of talent bc of the amount of plays where we had a guy there, but they just didn’t make a play.
 
#2,331
#2,331
volbeast33 said:
I love talking football and am definitely open to talking about our weaknesses…. The only issue I have is most of the conversation is it’s based on emotion with no real facts added. Here are some examples:


1. Teams ran the ball a lot just like they passed the ball against us… it took two minutes to look up the stats to find out that was false.

2. Other teams dealt with the same injury situation that Tennessee did( no examples given)

3. We won’t Zach Arnett bc he would solve everything( look up stats and he gave up almost 2 more ppg than our defense did.

4. We need transfers bad…. I asked who everyone thinks would be better…. No examples were given except for Tony Grimes( looked up Tony Grimes and saw that he had struggled for the years on a pass defense that was as bad or worse than ours)

5. Been told how horrible WM is….. looked up stats and found out that WM time at UT before was some of our best secondary stats over the years.

6. I also found out that of the CBs that have played significant minutes in the NFL…. All of them have been coached by WM…. I asked when the last CB that played a significant role in the NFL that was coached by anyone other than WM…… Crickets***

If you want to discuss how to improve the team…. That’s great but bring facts and logic.
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Ok there is one fact. We were at the bottom against the pass. Dress it however you want. All I have been saying this whole time is that we need help in the secondary. If that is wrong then please continue. Yes I was ready to fire both WM and Banks after SC. I was beyond mad. I mean that game cost us the playoffs it wasn't just another loss. All I have been saying since is I hope we get a proven corner in the portal or even two. But somehow saying that means I am not happy with this class and the CB's coming in. What CB's have done in the NFL didn't helps us last year. lol Yes there were injuries that is why I keep saying I hope we address our need. We are slow and under talent in key positions. Those are facts. Burrell for example. When he was playing most wish he wasn't. Now we can't wait until he gets back. He couldn't tackle nor cover all that well. I am not going to keep going in circles with this conversation. I JUST WANT TO GET BETTER IN THE SECONDARY. But for some reason when someone talks about our secondary we get a list of "facts". The only fact that I am concerned with is we need better talented players back there and that's a fact.
 
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#2,332
#2,332
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Major problem you are ignoring...those are the same two "defensive secondary paradigm changing" players that literally EVERYBODY else wants.

You want them to just get somebody, but why is a guy like say Grimes worth the f'n trouble? From what I have seen of him, he hasn't done any better than what we have already, or anybody we have coming in...you are just blinded to that fact by those 5 shiny *s he USED to have by his name.

I for one don't see the point of just adding portal bodies just to be adding a portal body. We have 6...f'n..6 talented highschool recruits coming in that the staff DOES want and DOES think can make a difference in time...why the hell is that not enough of a commitment to the DB positions for you?

Imo..we ain't getting any "Big name" high-dollar DB recruits from the portal, so you and Bass might as well fire up your bitchfest for the long-haul....because it ain't gonna happen to suit you.

I think after all the HS kids are in the fold, they will eventually sign a couple portal guys, but I guarantee you it won't be anybody that you or Bass will get excited about.
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I think this is right. The problem is everyone heard there are 1,000 players in the portal. Our weakness is secondary so let’s go get at least one of the top ones. Then they got disappointed when hearing nothing especially if they were keeping up with other teams.

We have had a few tell us we want to keep all of our recruits. It’s not worth losing them anyone in the portal they’re not that crazy about. All the best players knew where they were going or are demanding too much. They plan on reevaluating after the spring when knowing more about how everyone is going to work and who all may leave.

But they are upset when everyone tells them this because it’s not how they want it to be.
 
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#2,335
#2,335
Vols4us said:
Don't fall for it. Have too much respect for you to let it go.

Martinez' first stint: 211, 198, 217, 228 YPG from 2013-2016. 213.5 YPG average. In 2016, his worst season for yardage allowed when his contract was not renewed, there were only 390 passing attempts and the completion percentage was 56.2% - which was very good. They just gave up 7 YPC, which was just middle of the pack in CFB.

So let's add perspective from that period before he arrived.

169, 230, 178, 282 YPG from 2009-2012. 214.75 YPG average. 2012 year's D was led by the infamous Sal Sunseri, which also led to Dools' firing. Essentially the same average per game including the Sunseri debacle.

That four year period gave the benefit of Eric Berry for one season, 2009, with a real DC in Monte Kiffin. So remove the two outliers - Monte and Sal - and what do you see? Essentially the same as Willie's four seasons.

For additional perspective for the past two seasons...

251, 287 YPG. The later number for this past season was on 476 pass attempts. In 2012 it was on 446. Yet, the completion percentage was lower in Sunseri's 2012 at 61% completed compared to 63.7% for this past season.

So what was the performance of the passing D during the Chavis years as Fulmer was getting toward the end? ESPN's stats go back to 2004

236, 216, 179, 245, 160 YPG from 2004-2008. 219 YPG average. As we know Fulmer was fired in 2008. So pick the worst performance of those five seasons in 2007 and the passing attempts was 466 and completion percentage was 59.4%. 3.2% higher completion percentage on 76 more passing attempts compared to Wille's worst passing yards allowed year in his first stint.

Note that Willie's best season does not approach the better seasons of all of the others shown above which occurred during one of the worst periods in our history.

Second - The development of many of those same CBs he described in #6 occurred in the NFL. The talent was obviously there, so their recruitment made sense in college. If WM recruited them, he deserves credit. The vast majority of those d-backs did not start in their first or second season in the NFL - which is a strong measure for quality development in college. It took several seasons before they saw significant playing time.

If we carry our comparisons over to other SEC elite programs, the measure that actually matters based on our tradition and standing in the CFB world - we suck on D and in passing defense by any measure and generally have on a trendline for the past 20 years. The appropriate measure instead of against our own stats would be against UGA, Bama, LSU and UF. They have won more games and NC's than us by a lot over that period.

So what should the standard be for UT and its defense given our tradition and current offensive performance if indeed we want to win a natty? We know it has not been the performance of the past two seasons. Take it from there.
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Nice post.
 
#2,337
#2,337
TheRain said:
The Ghost of Christmas Present points out to Scrooge, these two children are the result of a society that disregards the less fortunate...

“They are Man’s,” said the Spirit, looking down upon them. “And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers. This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy."
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Haven’t had enough coffee yet to process this, Rain.
 
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#2,341
#2,341
Enki_Amenra said:
Did you know. . .
A Ruppell's Griffon Vulture can fly around 36,000ft?
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Went to the Googles to research this. The first discovery was at the cost of one vulture as it was sucked into the jet engine of the plane that documented it. If that isn’t pretty much mankind in a nutshell, I don’t know what is.
 
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#2,342
#2,342
KptVFL said:
No, not fragile at all. Just have the sense to understand timing.

It has zero to do with if your point is valid.
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I agree that timing was dumb and reading the room would have went a long way, but timing and people being sad about his passing didn’t warp their view of his resume, if that’s what you meant. Maybe folks were a little more eager to explain his HOF resume because of the timing, but the facts of his resume and HOF status remain the same. Same question gets asked 6 months from now and the same answers and viewpoints will be given. He has a HOF resume and will be in the HOF.
 
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#2,344
#2,344
ACvol3 said:
During the season, I was thinking more Willie or just lack of talent bc of the amount of plays where we had a guy there, but they just didn’t make a play.
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I think the spike from last year to this year was more about players. Who we lost (draft/graduation as well as injuries) and how the replacements played. But the increases from what Willie's secondary did in his previous time here to what they've done these past 2 seasons I think is more about DC coverage philosophy and that is mostly on Banks imo.
 
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#2,347
#2,347
ndubvols said:
But we’re bringing in like 6 freshman right? That’s a lot of DB’s. I’m sure we’ll add 1 in the portal. How many more are you wanting to add?
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I think part of the reason we aren’t hearing more about defensive players in the portal is not wanting to spook the incoming freshmen who they really like. Wait til most of them get on campus, especially if they are EE’s, and I think we will start to hear more defensive names.
 
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#2,348
#2,348
ACvol3 said:
Winners rarely are
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Explains your hate for my panthers.

surprised-sorprendido.gif
 
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