Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXIX

[butchna]

Yea Kongbo has just been a destroyer hasn't he? NOT! But I am not going to get into this with you. You live to get things started so you can beat the subject to death. Enjoy.

He got upset when they let Jancek go. There's always a conspiracy where Butch is wronging someone, with this one. He was further miffed when his theory that we couldn't hire Shoop and would settle for Hoke and Chizik (based on some weird comparison of VN posts before the DeBord hire) went pffft. Before this season started, he had a reason to function with the Title IX lawsuit...but THEY took that away from him. :sad: So it's harp on this or get to plunking away at another farewell letter. :gone:

 

[BruinVol]

He transferred here after the sanctions were handed down at USCw. He came to TN and Dooley. Never played a snap for Kiffin at UT or USCw.

He played one year here correct?

 

[butchna]

He played one year here correct?

Two...2010&2011.

 

[BruinVol]

Two...2010&2011.

Thanks. Both Wilcox years then.

 

[butchna]

Thanks. Both Wilcox years then.

Yeah...so that proves your point that Wilcox had no DT talent.

 

[Vols4us]

No he wouldn't. We don't have defensive tackles Bruin.

That's where its at in this league. You better be good at DT or you're not gonna be very good on defense.

This. To engage Bruin is an exercise in futility.

You have to be strong at DT to engage more double teams there to free up your DE's to do their thing. Raise your hand if you want to see Barnett and Vereen going against one blocker instead of 2 or 3. This destroys the run and passing game of opponents. Even #53 could be adequate slowing down the run game with that happening. Notice his best games were when they had decent DT's in the games? This isn't even hard to understand. A middle schooler can do it.

FWIW we've had a Barnett style, not quite as good, who had a very good NFL career. His name is Shaun Ellis. He wears an NC ring and was All Pro twice as the #12 pick in the first round to the NYJ. Barnett is quicker, better technique, and more disruptive than even Shaun.

 

[butchna]

Barnett will tear a new hole in the NFL, and a certain film watcher will swear he predicted it...but was joking and no one was smart enough to realize it.

 

[BruinVol]

Yeah...so that proves your point that Wilcox had no DT talent.

Here you go.

Which DL you take?

2011: Jackson, Bohanon, Smith, Martin, Miller, Hood

2016: Barnett, vickers, Vereen, phillips, Lewis



Neither team had any quality depth at DT. I would vote 2016 but agree it's close.

2011: gave up 22.6 PTs a game
2016: 26.9

2011: gave up 162 yard rushing a game
2016: 216

20ll also had a terrible secondary with very young LBs.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

I've been consistent on this. Derek Barnett does not have a high ceiling as a NFL player.

Now I want to stress this point. I'm not saying he'll be a BUST. I'm just saying he won't be a STAR. There are many good NFL players that never develop into stars. That's all I'm saying about Barnett.

I think his body, skill, and talent reminds me of Charles Johnson (long-time DE for the Panthers). Like Johnson I expect Barnett to be a 10 year starter, have a couple of 10 sack seasons, but never become a pro-bowl/star caliber player.

He'll just be solid in the pros. Not a star.

And you will be consistently wrong. It is taking double and triple teams from SEC teams to slow him down. Teams have to game plan around him...that's game changing and has star potential written all over it. You obviously need to learn how to watch film, and need to watch more.

 

[BigZiti09]

I don't know why fans don't take into consideration the team as a whole when thinking about defense.

2010 and 2011 we were dreadful on offense. In 2010 we were pretty bad all year until with the exception of the last 4 games and in 2011, once Hunter went down, we were awful on O. Teams weren't game planning to score 40 on us. They knew 21 would do the job. Protect the ball, control the game and get out of there with an easy W.

Also, it's not as if Wilcox was fielding some juggernaut defense. We got smoked numerous times in his 2 year stint here.

 

[butchna]

Here you go.

Which DL you take?

2011: Jackson, Bohanon, Smith, Martin, Miller, Hood

2016: Barnett, vickers, Vereen, phillips, Lewis



Neither team had any quality depth at DT. I would vote 2016 but agree it's close.

2011: gave up 22.6 PTs a game
2016: 26.9

2011: gave up 162 yard rushing a game
2016: 216

20ll also had a terrible secondary with very young LBs.

Awesome stuff...now let's talk Florida/Georgia wins and how Wilcox's line created points and pressure that lead to both.

 

[BruinVol]

Awesome stuff...now let's talk Florida/Georgia wins and how Wilcox's line created points and pressure that lead to both.

You mean the games where our DL was healthy?

You think Tuttle, O'brien, and McKenzie would make those list look differently?


We also gave up plenty of points in those games.


I mean it's malpractice to have given up 28pts to that terrible florida offense.

 

[BigZiti09]

Here you go.

Which DL you take?

2011: Jackson, Bohanon, Smith, Martin, Miller, Hood

2016: Barnett, vickers, Vereen, phillips, Lewis



Neither team had any quality depth at DT. I would vote 2016 but agree it's close.

2011: gave up 22.6 PTs a game
2016: 26.9

2011: gave up 162 yard rushing a game
2016: 216

20ll also had a terrible secondary with very young LBs.

2011 was better at tackle

 

[Dust10]

Here you go.

Which DL you take?

2011: Jackson, Bohanon, Smith, Martin, Miller, Hood

2016: Barnett, vickers, Vereen, phillips, Lewis



Neither team had any quality depth at DT. I would vote 2016 but agree it's close.

2011: gave up 22.6 PTs a game
2016: 26.9

2011: gave up 162 yard rushing a game
2016: 216

20ll also had a terrible secondary with very young LBs.

Whenever I see comparison questions like this, I always go with the side that has the best 2 out of 3. To me the top 3 are Jackson (because he has proven it in the league), Barnett, and Vereen. Edge to 2016 for me.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

This. To engage Bruin is an exercise in futility.

You have to be strong at DT to engage more double teams there to free up your DE's to do their thing. Raise your hand if you want to see Barnett and Vereen going against one blocker instead of 2 or 3. This destroys the run and passing game of opponents. Even #53 could be adequate slowing down the run game with that happening. Notice his best games were when they had decent DT's in the games? This isn't even hard to understand. A middle schooler can do it.

FWIW we've had a Barnett style, not quite as good, who had a very good NFL career. His name is Shaun Ellis. He wears an NC ring and was All Pro twice as the #12 pick in the first round to the NYJ. Barnett is quicker, better technique, and more disruptive than even Shaun.

Nonsense! Don't you know Barnett is not an explosive athlete, and doesn't have a high ceiling in the NFL???

 

[butchna]

You mean the games where our DL was healthy?

You think Tuttle, O'brien, and McKenzie would make those list look differently?


We also gave up plenty of points in those games.


I mean it's malpractice to have given up 28pts to that terrible florida offense.

So points generated by a defense and turnovers don't count? Wilcox coach a game like that against ANYBODY?

 

[VolsnCards5]

Yeah...so that proves your point that Wilcox had no DT talent.

This was a great comment thread to read

 

[WriterVol]

There has to be something better to talk about than going down another rabbit hole.

What's up with Missouri?

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

There has to be something better to talk about than going down another rabbit hole.

What's up with Missouri?

So you want to compare their defense and roster to Wilcox's in 2011? Maybe we should look at that Chavis defense from 1996 as well to get a more accurate assessment.

- BruinVol

 

[butchna]

There has to be something better to talk about than going down another rabbit hole.

What's up with Missouri?

Don't know how their recruiting is going. Don't care how their recruiting is going.

 

[WebbCobb]

Totally unrelated but I just wanted to pass on my thanks to all the Vols fans around Knoxville this past weekend. A friend and I went down for our first game and I was blown away.

First off, the atmosphere during the lead-up to the game was awesome. Seeing the Vol Walk, the players enter through the T, the sea of orange, and hearing Rocky Top live all surpassed my high expectations. Then, watching a game in Neyland was an incredible treat. Finally, what a great bunch of people! The friendliness at the game and around town astounded me! You have a little piece of heaven down there.

Thanks so much.

 

[Chuckie]

You mean the games where our DL was healthy?

You think Tuttle, O'brien, and McKenzie would make those list look differently?


We also gave up plenty of points in those games.


I mean it's malpractice to have given up 28pts to that terrible florida offense.

Only 106 on the ground, though. And you started whining about this because of the yards given up rushing.

It's futile to try to use stats because either side can cherry-pick to make their own point.

We all can agree that the defense has been underwhelming. Don't you think it's entirely possible that an ungodly number of injuries, bad (and very turn-over prone) offense, untimely and drive-extending penalties, and a 1st year coordinator working with unfamiliar position coaches might be just as, if not more, likely reasons for the poor performances?

 

[Atzar]

There has to be something better to talk about than going down another rabbit hole.

What's up with Missouri?

Glad to have Sutton and Foreman back for this one.

Drew Lock looks good against bad defenses, but sucks against good ones. Combined 44-of-106, 1 TD, 3 INT against WV, Florida, and LSU. Unfortunately, we aren't on that level at the moment. Doesn't get sacked much, only 10 on the year. Hope our DL can add to that total.

On defense, the DE Charles Harris is good, and they'll pick off a dumb pass. But they can't stop the run. As long as Dobbs plays smart, we should score at will.

Not a game I'm afraid of unless Bad Dobbs shows up again.

 

[Rishvol]

Glad to have Sutton and Foreman back for this one.

Drew Lock looks good against bad defenses, but sucks against good ones. Combined 44-of-106, 1 TD, 3 INT against WV, Florida, and LSU. Unfortunately, we aren't on that level at the moment. Doesn't get sacked much, only 10 on the year. Hope our DL can add to that total.

On defense, the DE Charles Harris is good, and they'll pick off a dumb pass. But they can't stop the run. As long as Dobbs plays smart, we should score at will.

Not a game I'm afraid of unless Bad Dobbs shows up again.

I'm pretty sure Drew Lock is out

 

[Atzar]

I'm pretty sure Drew Lock is out

Really? Latest I've read is that he has a lower leg injury but will play.

Wouldn't be upset if you're right, though.