Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXV

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#9,626
#9,626
SeanJean said:
1. Butch hasn't accomplished anything yet. Let's start with that. Last time I checked, the preseason polls aren't out yet, and even if they were, they are about as important as a piece of toilet paper.
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Most wins/first post-season ranking since 2007, first back to back bowl wins since 95-96, first ranked opponent wins since 2009, first road victory outside of TN/Kentucky since 2007, first All-Americans since Eric Berry isn't accomplishing anything?

SeanJean said:
2. Rutgers was a toilet of a football program when Schiano got there. The worst of the worst. Worse than Vanderbilt. He had them top 10 and had a 2 loss season. Just insane. Rutgers.
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True, but UT was also worse than Vanderbilt when Butch took over. The program was in a downward trajectory. 4-8 or worse were in the cards for 2014 with no OL and no DL. Vols were certainly in the toilet on Dec. 7, 2012. Also, Butch won 11 at CMU and had them ranked in the top 25. Oops, he followed Brian Kelly there. Forgot that doesn't count.

SeanJean said:
3. Schiano also had a big hand in one of the best runs in college football history at Miami before he left for Rutgers.
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Okay?

SeanJean said:
4. Butch's first Tennessee team would have beaten Rutgers in 2001 by 40+ points.
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Not sure about that. That UT team almost lost to South Alabama. Regardless, that's apples and oranges. Different conferences, different caliber athletes. What matters is that UT was absolutely crippled as an SEC team.

SeanJean said:
5. Rebuilding Tennessee compared to building Rutgers is like putting new tires on a Corvette vs. making a lawn mower win the Daytona 500.
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Given what Butch has done at Tennessee, is there any doubt that he could have accomplished the same thing as Schiano at Rutgers? i.e., have one great season in 11 years and make them a competitive program (which took 6 seasons).

And if Schiano is such a fantastic coach, why did he spend 3 years doing nothing after getting fired by the Bucs?
 
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#9,629
#9,629
BigOrange15 said:
Maybe you should. Try listening to his point instead of blowing him off because he has one whether you want to admit it or not.
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I read it all.

I could respond, then he would respond, and this would continue. Not interested. He made his point and I disagree with most of it.
 
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#9,630
#9,630
Ehh... all I know is, we will find out if Butch is really a good coach or not after this year. For now it's wait and see for me.
 
#9,631
#9,631
Catbone said:
Ehh... all I know is, we will find out if Butch is really a good coach or not after this year. For now it's wait and see for me.
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This season has the potential to change everything.

10+ wins and Butch is legitimized, recruiting takes off, and the Vols are a permanent factor in the top 25/SEC East.

It will also allow Butch to more comfortably have a "down" year in 2017, where 9-10 wins might be the ceiling due to the talent we lose.
 
#9,632
#9,632
Aesius said:
This season has the potential to change everything.

10+ wins and Butch is legitimized, recruiting takes off, and the Vols are a permanent factor in the top 25/SEC East.

It will also allow Butch to more comfortably have a "down" year in 2017, where 9-10 wins might be the ceiling due to the talent we lose.
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It will. Although I don't think a drop off has to happen. OL will be well seasoned and DL should be talented and experienced.
 
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#9,633
#9,633
Aesius said:
Most wins/first post-season ranking since 2007, first back to back bowl wins since 95-96, first ranked opponent wins since 2009, first road victory outside of TN/Kentucky since 2007, first All-Americans since Eric Berry isn't accomplishing anything?
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No, not really. Those are nice steps in the right direction, but in the grand scheme of things at a big boy football program like Tennessee, they don't matter much. That you'd consider them accomplishments just shows how far things have fallen off and how low expectations got.
True, but UT was also worse than Vanderbilt when Butch took over. The program was in a downward trajectory. 4-8 or worse were in the cards for 2014 with no OL and no DL. Vols were certainly in the toilet on Dec. 7, 2012. Also, Butch won 11 at CMU and had them ranked in the top 25. Oops, he followed Brian Kelly there. Forgot that doesn't count.
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So you're going to compare the worst run in UT history with Vanderbilt's best season ever? Cool. Totally reasonable. But anyway yes, I like Butch Jones. I think he did a very good job in 2013 (his best coaching job at UT by the way). Even so, that UT team destroys almost every team Rutgers has ever put on the field before Schiano. That's just reality. Rutgers was basically a division 2 program.




Not sure about that. That UT team almost lost to South Alabama. Regardless, that's apples and oranges. Different conferences, different caliber athletes. What matters is that UT was absolutely crippled as an SEC team.
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Umm, right. That's my point. As bad as we were when Jones got here, we've never been anywhere near Rutgers bad. It's a silly comparison to suggest they were similar "building" jobs.

Given what Butch has done at Tennessee, is there any doubt that he could have accomplished the same thing as Schiano at Rutgers? i.e., have one great season in 11 years and make them a competitive program (which took 6 seasons).
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I have no idea. I just know what did happen, and why Schiano got NFL offers basically every year from 2006-2011. Jones has not. Nor is he about to. He has to accomplish some things first. Real things. They don't give NFL coaching jobs out for moral victories.

And if Schiano is such a fantastic coach, why did he spend 3 years doing nothing after getting fired by the Bucs?
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What this has to do with anything I have no idea. Schiano will be in the NFL again at some point in the near future though. Count on it.
 
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#9,635
#9,635
Aesius said:
This season has the potential to change everything.

10+ wins and Butch is legitimized, recruiting takes off, and the Vols are a permanent factor in the top 25/SEC East.

It will also allow Butch to more comfortably have a "down" year in 2017, where 9-10 wins might be the ceiling due to the talent we lose.
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I agree. And quite frankly, if the team is healthy, and he wins less than 10 games at the end of the year, it's his fault and he did a bad coaching job. Simple as that. Too much talent and experience on that roster vs. that schedule.
 
#9,636
#9,636
This year is the turning point in Vol football in one way or another.

Will we meet expectations and become a perennial powerhouse and the next school everyone wants to join? Will we again be let down by another poor coaching performance and have to start over?

FIND OUT ON THE NEXT SEASON OF NCAA FOOTBALL
 
#9,637
#9,637
SeanJean said:
I agree. And quite frankly, if the team is healthy, and he wins less than 10 games at the end of the year, it's his fault and he did a bad coaching job. Simple as that. Too much talent and experience on that roster vs. that schedule.
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I concur. First time in his tenure I've felt that way. But I think it's fair to place these expectations at his feet, with the job he's done to date in terms of recruiting and frankly the weakness of our schedule this fall. This may be the easiest schedule we've had in 10 years.
 
#9,638
#9,638
SeanJean said:
I agree. And quite frankly, if the team is healthy, and he wins less than 10 games at the end of the year, it's his fault and he did a bad coaching job. Simple as that. Too much talent and experience on that roster vs. that schedule.
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Yes.

Although it's hard for me to even imagine at this point how he could screw up this season from a coaching standpoint, seeing as how he has been bitten nearly every time he has played not to lose (exception: Vandy 2014) and been handsomely rewarded nearly every time he has played to win (for all 60 minutes).

The most likely culprit would be crawling into a shell and hoping to run out the clock against good teams, but goodness--surely he doesn't revert to that yet again? And if he does, I don't think anyone would be able to defend him.

His gameplans are pretty good. Player motivation is excellent. Discipline is top notch (penalties, special teams). The only thing that held him back in 2015 was his own tendencies. It would be ridiculously disappointing if he got in his own way again and proved that he learned nothing from OU and UF.
 
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#9,639
#9,639
Aesius said:
Yes.

Although it's hard for me to even imagine at this point how he could screw up this season from a coaching standpoint, seeing as how he has been bitten nearly every time he has played not to lose (exception: Vandy 2014) and been handsomely rewarded nearly every time he has played to win (for all 60 minutes).

The most likely culprit would be crawling into a shell and hoping to run out the clock against good teams, but goodness--surely he doesn't revert to that yet again? And if he does, I don't think anyone would be able to defend him.

His gameplans are pretty good. Player motivation is excellent. Discipline is top notch (penalties, special teams). The only thing that held him back in 2015 was his own tendencies. It would be ridiculously disappointing if he got in his own way again and proved that he learned nothing from OU and UF.
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Yep. I totally agree. Though I do think he got extreeeemely lucky beating South Carolina last year. That game was falling right into place like the other games where he went super conservative, and Foreman made a huge play.

And I agree. He does draw up good gameplans. Very good ones in fact. He just makes some really screwy decisions in the heat of the moment that have often cost him games. He needs to get over that and learn from his mistakes. If he does even a little bit, this should be a very fun year. My hope is at the very least Shoop's aggressive defense should counter some of Butch's tendencies to sit on a lead.
 
#9,640
#9,640
LWS just answered my question in the FF thread- said Butch isn't upset by the lawsuit so much as the fact that UT had a chance to settle the lawsuit last fall and chose not to! That's news to me- and he's upset by that because now all the negative publicity. What an irony- now we may have to settle the damn lawsuit anyway and potentially lose our coach too. May not happen certainly but I read his comments to say that Butch may look at his future heavily after this season especially if it's a winning season.
 
#9,641
#9,641
Catbone said:
This year is the turning point in Vol football in one way or another.

Will we meet expectations and become a perennial powerhouse and the next school everyone wants to join? Will we again be let down by another poor coaching performance and have to start over?

FIND OUT ON THE NEXT SEASON OF NCAA FOOTBALL
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qc3KYJ3ZfK8fu.gif
 
#9,642
#9,642
Lovesomebigorange said:
LWS just answered my question in the FF thread- said Butch isn't upset by the lawsuit so much as the fact that UT had a chance to settle the lawsuit last fall and chose not to! That's news to me- and he's upset by that because now all the negative publicity. What an irony- now we may have to settle the damn lawsuit anyway and potentially lose our coach too. May not happen certainly but I read his comments to say that Butch may look at his future heavily after this season especially if it's a winning season.
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Dave Hart ladies and germs.
 
#9,643
#9,643
Lovesomebigorange said:
LWS just answered my question in the FF thread- said Butch isn't upset by the lawsuit so much as the fact that UT had a chance to settle the lawsuit last fall and chose not to! That's news to me- and he's upset by that because now all the negative publicity. What an irony- now we may have to settle the damn lawsuit anyway and potentially lose our coach too. May not happen certainly but I read his comments to say that Butch may look at his future heavily after this season especially if it's a winning season.
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You don't settle frivolous lawsuits just because of the initial bad publicity.
 
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#9,644
#9,644
Lovesomebigorange said:
LWS just answered my question in the FF thread- said Butch isn't upset by the lawsuit so much as the fact that UT had a chance to settle the lawsuit last fall and chose not to! That's news to me- and he's upset by that because now all the negative publicity. What an irony- now we may have to settle the damn lawsuit anyway and potentially lose our coach too. May not happen certainly but I read his comments to say that Butch may look at his future heavily after this season especially if it's a winning season.
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Nah not true at all. The negative publicity is non existent and doesn't matter at all.

-most of VN
 
#9,645
#9,645
They've settled lawsuits before, surely they would see how much this would hurt recruiting by not settling. It's not only hurt recruiting it has killed instate recruiting in my opinion. At least currently - recruits instate are seemingly finding every reason to look elsewhere. Why else would that be? Just a big coincidence I don't think so- this damn lawsuit has been the reason at least a major factor.
 
#9,648
#9,648
Lovesomebigorange said:
They've settled lawsuits before, surely they would see how much this would hurt recruiting by not settling. It's not only hurt recruiting it has killed instate recruiting in my opinion. At least currently - recruits instate are seemingly finding every reason to look elsewhere. Why else would that be? Just a big coincidence I don't think so- this damn lawsuit has been the reason at least a major factor.
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I know of 2 recruits (highly rated) for '17 that have chosen Clemson.

Stevens was always a long long shot.

The apprehension stems from waiting to see results on the field.
 
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