Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXX

[YorkVol]

Lack of discipline. Butch jones first 3 teams were some of the best in country in lack of penalties and turnovers. Not sure what happened to that thisbyear

Probably a factor of putting more power in the hands of the player leaders.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Also, we're going to see some guys penciled in as contributors transfer this off-season. Butch has proven his attitude often runs good players off. Guys like Tyler Byrd and Shy Tuttle come to mind.

Lol...Byrd and Tuttle aren't going anywhere.

 

[Glitch]

O line run blocks just fine. It's the pass pro that really needs to improve.

Hoping a new line coach and a new strength coach can help us in that area.

The OL was much improved from App State to the end of the season. They weren't stellar but it was like musical linemen all across the OL. There have been at least two different starters at every position along the OL this year and more at some spots. OL is as much about knowing and trusting the guy next to you as it is about anything else. Knowing your teammates to your left and right and knowing what they will most likely do is huge. It is hard to get that level of consistent play when the person to your left and right is different from week to week.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Lol...Byrd and Tuttle aren't going anywhere.

I'm not predicting those guys, just players of similar stature in the program right now. If the coaching staff knows they're on a short leash going into 2017 then the players know it too. There will be more attrition.

 

[Nashvegas31]

The OL was much improved from App State to the end of the season. They weren't stellar but it was like musical linemen all across the OL. There have been at least two different starters at every position along the OL this year and more at some spots. OL is as much about knowing and trusting the guy next to you as it is about anything else. Knowing your teammates to your left and right and knowing what they will most likely do is huge. It is hard to get that level of consistent play when the person to your left and right is different from week to week.

Staff drives me crazy with all the shuffling in offseason and not settling on line until late. The line is clearly better with a healthy Thomas at C. It is def better with Hall at T. Robertson was underwhelming this year. He got blown up and missed assignments way too often.

 

[Aesius]

Number 3 is it for me. This all stems around the S&C fiasco.

I know we had issues with injuries but we didn't look right day 1 with a full squad.

Butch lost this locker room when he mishandled the S&C program.

I think Butch bungled the entire offseason. Team 119 overachieved to have been so close to 12-0. Butch and the team by extension thought they had arrived and that all he needed to do to win the East and 10+ games in 2017 was preserve the health of his returning studs and then just run through everyone on the schedule.

S&C decisions were an overcorrection on his part, IMO, due to the injuries sustained in fall camp last year. No one really got hurt in fall camp this year outside of Hall, but the team wasn't prepared for live contact whatsoever. They got pushed around by App State. Ball security issues are also indicative of a lack of contact. Once the season begins, your chance of ironing out those issues is mostly gone, because most coaches don't do full contact drills during the season itself. Too risky and players are already beat up.

Lack of full contact practices/scrimmages also perhaps contributed to the uncharacteristic penalties and overall lack of "fight" that we saw in the team until their backs were absolutely against the wall.

I believe Fulmer said something on the pre-game show before the Missouri game about how difficult it is to correct major issues with a team mid-season. You establish your identity in fall camp and hope you got it right, because by the time the season starts, it's mostly too late to change it. At that point you're licking your wounds, holding guys out of practice all the time, and gameplanning for opponents.

 

[Nashvegas31]

I'm not predicting those guys, just players of similar stature in the program right now. If the coaching staff knows they're on a short leash going into 2017 then the players know it too. There will be more attrition.

Then you should pick guys like Martin that may actually transfer or people already expect to leave instead of guys clearly not. Throwing their names out there like that for no reason just leads to baseless rumors.

 

[barrylee]

That's what I just don't get. With how disciplined Butch's teams have been, with all the returning experience we had...what in the world happened? It's like people were pointing out -- we were off even without all the injuries, right from the first game. What in the world happened? We've always known Butch is a middling in-game coach, that he doesn't always play the right personnel, that he went and hired a swim coach to run his offense; and yet we never had to wonder whether the team was tough or disciplined until this year.

It's just so disappointing because it looked like when we had finally overcome so many of our problems, a whole host of new problems rose up to take their place.

Don't know if this is plausible or not but I seem to remember when spring practice began, there was a concerted effort to tone down practice a bit for fear of injuries to important players. If this is true it could affect TO's somewhat if offense is not as used to taking hits when the games began. Almost seems the idea of making the spring a little less intense backfired from the beginning and had the opposite effect.

Several on here, me included, thought it was a good idea at the time but in the end it didn't work out the way we wanted. Butch is the type that keeps notes of everyday activities and if this was the way it happened this year, i'm hopeful he makes the necessary changes and improves this upcoming year. GBO

 

[ATC_VOL]

He was coaching high school ball in California last I heard. Would be interesting. But given how important this year is as far as where the direction of the program will go i would want to see some very successful, proven coaches that can recruit

Yeah, Casey and Rick are both coaching at the same school out there.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

I'm not saying fire Shoop or anything, but I definitely have concerns. I'm hoping the biggest problem was injuries, but it looked to me like the secondary was poorly coached. LBs too but it's hard for a LB to look good when he has an OL and H-back free releasing to him on every play. Not sure I buy how complicated Shoops D is either because from what I saw we ran the same 2 formations game after game, MOSTLY nickle lined up the same every play. And it isn't like we were fooling anyone with the telegraphed nickle blitzes.

Add all that to the fact that penn st is doing fine without him....... I'm just concerned. Still have hope that the biggest culprit was injuries though.

I don't think we really got to see Shoops full defense the whole year. His bread and butter is the nickel so that's why we saw it so much. He loves rushing 5 with a blitz coming from the second level almost every play. He backs that up by using different zone coverages, zone blitzes and unique looks to keep the quarterback guessing. The whole scheme working together is quite complex. We saw some of that but I think he dialed back some of it in the latter part of the season because of injuries, inexperience and even possibly some of Butches micromanaging skills. If Butch gives him full control and lets him bring in some experienced assistants I think the defense will improve.

 

[zhangliao04]

I'm still trying to figure out where all of this JG hype is coming from. Dude hasn't even played a down of college ball yet.

 

[BruinVol]

I don't think we really got to see Shoops full defense the whole year. His bread and butter is the nickel so that's why we saw it so much. He loves rushing 5 with a blitz coming from the second level almost every play. He backs that up by using different zone coverages, zone blitzes and unique looks to keep the quarterback guessing. The whole scheme working together is quite complex. We saw some of that but I think he dialed back some of it in the latter part of the season because of injuries, inexperience and even possibly some of Butches micromanaging skills. If Butch gives him full control and lets him bring in some experienced assistants I think the defense will improve.

The defense will improve from what we saw at the end of the year regardless of any changes. It doesn't matter who is coaching. It can't be worse

 

[BruinVol]

I'm still trying to figure out where all of this JG hype is coming from. Dude hasn't even played a down of college ball yet.

Same place all the Jacob Eason hype came from last year and this board laughed at Dawg fans for it.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

Don't know if this is plausible or not but I seem to remember when spring practice began, there was a concerted effort to tone down practice a bit for fear of injuries to important players. If this is true it could affect TO's somewhat if offense is not as used to taking hits when the games began. Almost seems the idea of making the spring a little less intense backfired from the beginning and had the opposite effect.

Several on here, me included, thought it was a good idea at the time but in the end it didn't work out the way we wanted. Butch is the type that keeps notes of everyday activities and if this was the way it happened this year, i'm hopeful he makes the necessary changes and improves this upcoming year. GBO

I recall that as well and I realized quickly the hypocrisy of it. Last year we said practices were too intense, which caused all of the preseason injuries. Tho, the team played up to their talent level last year I believe. Got shorted by the coaching staffs bad in game coaching, not coaching from Sun-Fri. This year there were no injuries, but the team seemed off every game with the exception thankfully of the second half of Florida. So naturally we say they tried to avoid injury too much, and they were not prepared. So in conclusion, idk what the issues are, and I'm not paid millions to find them.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

The defense will improve from what we saw at the end of the year regardless of any changes. It doesn't matter who is coaching. It can't be worse

haha the only way to go is up when you hit rock bottom I guess.

 

[jspvol76]

I'm still trying to figure out where all of this JG hype is coming from. Dude hasn't even played a down of college ball yet.

Isn't hype normally built up before something happens?

 

[volfanCLT]

I'm still trying to figure out where all of this JG hype is coming from. Dude hasn't even played a down of college ball yet.

Probably because he was the #1 dual threat quarterback recruit last year

 

[zhangliao04]

What I'm getting at is some have already written him down as the next best thing since sliced bread. Some of it is too much hype, IMO. But that's just my own thoughts. I think he has a chance to do some great things, but I want to see him in action first before I start saying stuff like "will run all over defenses and shred them through the air at the same time".

 

[LaagerVol]

I don't think we really got to see Shoops full defense the whole year. His bread and butter is the nickel so that's why we saw it so much. He loves rushing 5 with a blitz coming from the second level almost every play. He backs that up by using different zone coverages, zone blitzes and unique looks to keep the quarterback guessing. The whole scheme working together is quite complex. We saw some of that but I think he dialed back some of it in the latter part of the season because of injuries, inexperience and even possibly some of Butches micromanaging skills. If Butch gives him full control and lets him bring in some experienced assistants I think the defense will improve.

Very good points. He was running a lot of zone blitzes, etc early in the season. And he was running more zone coverage too, because I remember a few busts.

After Saturday I was down on everything about the program, but like I usually do, I'm starting to be hopeful that things can be fixed with the right offseason moves.

 

[BruinVol]

If JG is the same runner and same passer as Dobbs the future is very bright for Jones. If he doesn't have they ball security issues then the next few years are going to be special. That is if he stays healthy. Very few times has Dobbs been praised for his durability but he has been one tough dude to take so many hit.

 

[vol2002]

Remind me to never go to war with you! You can't wait until it begins to happen, if it happens, before going to all the gloom and doom?

There is a possibility he hires the right people to develop players, the S&C is greatly improved, our new QB plays light out and we win 9 or 10 games.

Ha ha! Don't get me wrong, I'm not a negavol. I'll be pulling for him and for the Vols and I'd love him to turn it around. I'm just calling it like I see it. I don't think he survives. But I'd be very happy to be wrong!

 

[Z06VolinWV]

I just wish folks would realize CBJ isn't going any where soon, and will be our coach next year, and hopefully with success, many years to come.
All the current boo hoo'n isn't gonna change a damn thing other than make this great chat board more insufferable! Honestly, it's getting rather old listening to the same ol sh!t over and over.

 

[SpringBokVol]

JG is elite.

But there are still unknowns.

It will come down to his in game temperament and his health.

 

[SpringBokVol]

50% that Butch is not the coach here next year.

I now put this at 100% that Butch is the coach here next year.

The feelers he and his agent have floated have come back with absolutely ZERO interest.

He can't go anywhere.

Now will that demotivate him or we will he rise to the challenge.

 

[volssam]

What I'm getting at is some have already written him down as the next best thing since sliced bread. Some of it is too much hype, IMO. But that's just my own thoughts. I think he has a chance to do some great things, but I want to see him in action first before I start saying stuff like "will run all over defenses and shred them through the air at the same time".

What was the best thing before sliced bread?