Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

[BruinVol]

That seems beyond bizarre. You don't transport your VFL coordinator? Mind-boggling, if true.

Were the extra law enforcement officers we sent on the team plane?

 

[jave36]

Butch's is better at 10th average and Dooley is worse at 15th average.

Recruiting clearly isn't the problem. Developing players and game day coaching are.

How many players have noticeably improved as time went on? Cam, JRM, Barnett were all elite from day 1.

Maybe Malone improved?

Dobbs, although apparently his mechanics are still so bad they say it'll take a while for Pitt to undo the issues.

I just don't see improvement from year to year for most of our players. They have the same issues from day 1 and those issues stick around.

 

[BigZiti09]

Maybe so. Then they should be able to hold the fort down at 8-4 with little doubt.

Maybe. Or we could see some coaches jumping ship. Or we could win 9 and recruiting really take off. Or we could have a new guy in here who finishes strong this year and gets the "new coach bump" in recruiting for 2019.

 

[WallyBalls]

UT students planning a walk-out during the UMASS game. That could be one of the final nails in the coffin for Lyle

You talking about the sad little twitter account with a whopping 101 followers on a platform that is an absolute orgy of negativity right now?

Its actually a smart gimmick. Pitch a social media fit. Pound your tiny fists on the table. Then, when a couple thousand students leave at halftime of a noon non-conference game like they do every year, claim your "walkout" was a victory.

Brilliant.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Recruiting clearly isn't the problem. Developing players and game day coaching are.

How many players have noticeably improved as time went on? Cam, JRM, Barnett were all elite from day 1.

Maybe Malone improved?

Dobbs, although apparently his mechanics are still so bad they say it'll take a while for Pitt to undo the issues.

I just don't see improvement from year to year for most of our players. They have the same issues from day 1 and those issues stick around.

That and a lot of the players he's signed haven't contributed at all. I stole this list from LittleCat in the NBA Forum.

Class of 2013
Branisel Transfer
Brown Transfer
Jones Transfer
Swafford Left Football (Injuries?)
Jenkins Transfer
Ferguson (Quit/Transfer)
Miller (Transfer)
Carr (Transfer)
Carter (Transfer)
L. Johnson (Transfer?)

2014
Hurd Quit
Hendrix Transfer
Helm Transfer
Scott Transfer
Payne Transfer
Sawyers Transfer
Henderson Academic Issues
Paulk Dismissed
Wharton Transfer
Mixon Transfer
Creamer Transfer
Raulerson Transfer

2015
Williams Transfer
Jones Transfer
Butcher Left Football (Injuries)
Oliver Transfer (Off-field Issues)
Griffin Left Program
Perry Academic Issues
Miller Left Program
Bruce Left Program
Townsend Transfer?
Young Left Football (Injuries)
Stewart Left Football

2016
McDaniel Transfer
Lewis Left Program
Henderson Academics

 

[Catbone]

That and a lot of the players he's signed haven't contributed at all. I stole this list from LittleCat in the NBA Forum.

Class of 2013
Branisel Transfer
Brown Transfer
Jones Transfer
Swafford Left Football (Injuries?)
Jenkins Transfer
Ferguson (Quit/Transfer)
Miller (Transfer)
Carr (Transfer)
Carter (Transfer)
L. Johnson (Transfer?)

2014
Hurd Quit
Hendrix Transfer
Helm Transfer
Scott Transfer
Payne Transfer
Sawyers Transfer
Henderson Academic Issues
Paulk Dismissed
Wharton Transfer
Mixon Transfer
Creamer Transfer
Raulerson Transfer

2015
Williams Transfer
Jones Transfer
Butcher Left Football (Injuries)
Oliver Transfer (Off-field Issues)
Griffin Left Program
Perry Academic Issues
Miller Left Program
Bruce Left Program
Townsend Transfer?
Young Left Football (Injuries)
Stewart Left Football

2016
McDaniel Transfer
Lewis Left Program
Henderson Academics

And then add the 20 injuries per year on top of that 😂

 

[Lovesomebigorange]

Reading all of this about Butch wanting out after last season tells me all I need to know. You aren't going to give your all to this job if your mind is constantly on "how the hell do I get out of this".

It's obvious he is in over his head and apparently he realizes it. I think the 2015 season broke him- he hasn't been the same sense and neither has the team.

 

[jave36]

That and a lot of the players he's signed haven't contributed at all. I stole this list from LittleCat in the NBA Forum.

Class of 2013
Branisel Transfer
Brown Transfer
Jones Transfer
Swafford Left Football (Injuries?)
Jenkins Transfer
Ferguson (Quit/Transfer)
Miller (Transfer)
Carr (Transfer)
Carter (Transfer)
L. Johnson (Transfer?)

2014
Hurd Quit
Hendrix Transfer
Helm Transfer
Scott Transfer
Payne Transfer
Sawyers Transfer
Henderson Academic Issues
Paulk Dismissed
Wharton Transfer
Mixon Transfer
Creamer Transfer
Raulerson Transfer

2015
Williams Transfer
Jones Transfer
Butcher Left Football (Injuries)
Oliver Transfer (Off-field Issues)
Griffin Left Program
Perry Academic Issues
Miller Left Program
Bruce Left Program
Townsend Transfer?
Young Left Football (Injuries)
Stewart Left Football

2016
McDaniel Transfer
Lewis Left Program
Henderson Academics

I don't know that our attrition is worse than the average program (although the 4 and 5* who left our program probably is higher than normal), but my bigger problem is the ones who stay just don't get better. They stay about as good or bad as their first season with a few exceptions.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

UG disagrees. 7-5 got them #3 in recruiting in 2017. Granted, it was Smarts first year, but I'm not sure it matters as much as some would think.

I think it does. Easy to spin 1st year struggles vs. struggles in year 5 with a roster you built for your scheme.

 

[BigZiti09]

Recruiting clearly isn't the problem. Developing players and game day coaching are.

How many players have noticeably improved as time went on? Cam, JRM, Barnett were all elite from day 1.

Maybe Malone improved?

Dobbs, although apparently his mechanics are still so bad they say it'll take a while for Pitt to undo the issues.

I just don't see improvement from year to year for most of our players. They have the same issues from day 1 and those issues stick around.

This is breakerboy type analysis. If a player does well, you just say that they were always that good and they did well in spite of their coaching.

If a player doesn't pan out then it's all on coaching and development. Unless you like that position coach, then it's on the head coach for not using him right.

 

[Aesius]

If Clemson makes the playoffs this year, does that rule out Venables as an HC candidate (if there's an opening)? Or would he leave Clemson pre-playoff prep to get a head start at Tennessee?

 

[jave36]

This is breakerboy type analysis. If a player does well, you just say that they were always that good and they did well in spite of their coaching.

If a player doesn't pan out then it's all on coaching and development. Unless you like that position coach, then it's on the head coach for not using him right.

I'm open to being convinced if you'd like to propose facts instead of whatever weird sub-post to BB you just offered...

Has anyone who didn't ball out from their very first game drastically improved? Coaches shouldn't get as much credit for Barnett and Cam, who weren't even EE and were elite from day 1, as someone like Malone who wasn't very good until year 3. I haven't seen many Malone type developments under Butch.

 

[drvenner]

Lyle is his real name.

We all know that. He goes by Butch. Everyone calling him that is doing it to be a d1ckhead. It is meant in a derogatory way.

 

[BruinVol]

I'm open to being convinced if you'd like to propose facts instead of whatever weird sub-post to BB you just offered...

Has anyone who didn't ball out from their very first game drastically improved? Coaches shouldn't get as much credit for Barnett and Cam, who weren't even EE and were elite from day 1, as someone like Malone who wasn't very good until year 3. I haven't seen many Malone type developments under Butch.

Vickers
Kendrick
Taylor
Butili
Sapp
Mosley
Kelly


Pretty solid list of guys that weren't immediately good players

 

[drvenner]

Don't tell his mama that.

None of us are his mama so stfu.

 

[volatil]

Andy Staples on Tennessee

"The fan base has completely checked out but I don't believe administration has. John Currie doesn't want to make a coaching change. Georgia is critical for Butch and staff to win. Knowing they are going to lose to Bama, a loss to Georgia eliminates them from East championship in September. That would be unacceptable".

Finebaum "can you see a scenario the noise gets to Currie?"

Staples "Loss to Vandy or Ky would be straw that broke camels back".

 

[BigZiti09]

I'm open to being convinced if you'd like to propose facts instead of whatever weird sub-post to BB you just offered...

Has anyone who didn't ball out from their very first game drastically improved? Coaches shouldn't get as much credit for Barnett and Cam, who weren't even EE and were elite from day 1, as someone like Malone who wasn't very good until year 3. I haven't seen many Malone type developments under Butch.

Pretty much every single O lineman we have playing for us has gotten better.

Josh Malone got better. Josh Smith got better. Jujuan Jennings got better. Callaway got better. Dobbs got a lot better. Barnett got better. Vereen got better. Danny O got better. Brian Randolph got better.

There's not a lot of guys who are gonna be bench warmers for a year then explode into 3rd round draft picks as a junior like Malone.

There's definitely something going on with personnel usage. I'm not sure if it's development as much as it being afraid to play guys who you know are going to make mistakes. We aren't getting our 2's enough snaps.

 

[drvenner]

Were the extra law enforcement officers we sent on the team plane?

Probably so. It just seems strange, but after having read some other posts, maybe not so much.

 

[Smokey123]

[Twitter]https://twitter.com/thelifeoftkee/status/910582770610704384[/Twitter]

 

[McGeesPub]

Pretty much every single O lineman we have playing for us has gotten better.

Josh Malone got better. Josh Smith got better. Jujuan Jennings got better. Callaway got better. Dobbs got a lot better. Barnett got better. Vereen got better. Danny O got better. Brian Randolph got better.

There's not a lot of guys who are gonna be bench warmers for a year then explode into 3rd round draft picks as a junior like Malone.

There's definitely something going on with personnel usage. I'm not sure if it's development as much as it being afraid to play guys who you know are going to make mistakes. We aren't getting our 2's enough snaps.

It's ironic that you named a lot of guys whose positional coaches were the ones who moved on- whether by encouragement or not.

 

[jave36]

Pretty much every single O lineman we have playing for us has gotten better.

Josh Malone got better. Josh Smith got better. Jujuan Jennings got better. Callaway got better. Dobbs got a lot better. Barnett got better. Vereen got better. Danny O got better. Brian Randolph got better.

There's not a lot of guys who are gonna be bench warmers for a year then explode into 3rd round draft picks as a junior like Malone.

There's definitely something going on with personnel usage. I'm not sure if it's development as much as it being afraid to play guys who you know are going to make mistakes. We aren't getting our 2's enough snaps.

I don't think our OL have gotten better at all except for putting in new players like Hall and Smith. In fact I think they've looked worse from year to year. Dobbs legs made them look much better than they are. I'm actually baffled anyone would suggest that unit as evidence to the contrary of my argument.

Dobbs didn't improve very much beyond his sophomore year.

Josh Smith improved his drop issues from freshman to sophomore year, but not much else.

How do you know Callaway has gotten better?

JJ looks about the same as he always has, he's been an athlete who needs polishing and still is.

Barnett looked about the same all the way through. DOB and Verena are good examples.

Randolph seemed to get worse as time went on. I thought his senior year was bad. He couldn't tackle for anything.

I just see a few exceptions to the rule that most of our guys don't get much better from year to year.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

[Twitter]https://twitter.com/thelifeoftkee/status/910582770610704384[/Twitter]

Lol. Tykee let his own self slip away..

 

[BigZiti09]

I don't think our OL have gotten better at all except for putting in new players like Hall and Smith. In fact I think they've looked worse from year to year. Dobbs legs made them look much better than they are. I'm actually baffled anyone would suggest that unit as evidence to the contrary of my argument.

Dobbs didn't improve very much beyond his sophomore year.

Josh Smith improved his drop issues from freshman to sophomore year, but not much else.

How do you know Callaway has gotten better?

JJ looks about the same as he always has, he's been an athlete who needs polishing and still is.

Barnett looked about the same all the way through. DOB and Verena are good examples.

Randolph seemed to get worse as time went on. I thought his senior year was bad. He couldn't tackle for anything.

I just see a few exceptions to the rule that most of our guys don't get much better from year to year.

Go back and watch Josh Dobbs pass the ball in 2014 and then watch him last year.

We've ran the ball really well the past few years. Josh Dobbs bailing out the O line is a little overblown in my book.

I disagree on a few others but we aren't gonna agree on it all.

 

[BigZiti09]

It's ironic that you named a lot of guys whose positional coaches were the ones who moved on- whether by encouragement or not.

I think our fanbase singles out coaches and then refuse to change their opinion on them. Azzani had his struggles but we saw a ton of WR improvement last year.

I'm not gonna carry a ton of water for Mahoney. His unit has improved in my opinion but they were completely lost back in 2014 once the cupboard was completely dry. Nowhere to go but up.

 

[WallyBalls]

[Twitter]https://twitter.com/thelifeoftkee/status/910582770610704384[/Twitter]

Again, twitter is the worst thing going in 2017.