Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

[Darth_Shiveman]

That's dogma. You can say words all you want. God knows your heart. If you are only saying words and not truly repentant, don't pack any sweaters on your way to the judgement line.

Yep, and if you're really sorry, then BOOM! salvation loophole.

 

[Glitch]

Yep, and if you're really sorry, then BOOM! salvation loophole.

If you are really sorry, you probably won't be settimg off trucks full of explosives to kill innocent people.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

If you are really sorry, you probably won't be settimg off trucks full of explosives to kill innocent people.

If you didn't set them off, you wouldn't have to be sorry for it lol

 

[Glitch]

If you didn't set them off, you wouldn't have to be sorry for it lol

Well that is a true statement. What I meant was that most people that are true Christians would never do something like that. That is the thing about sin though. Blowing up a building and killing a bunch of innocents is no worse than adultery or lying in God's eyes. Sin is sin. If you are truly repentant then God will forgive. We are all unworthy and fall short of the glory of God. To what degree we fall short doesn't matter. No matter what your sin is, it cannot be in God's presence and thus separates us from God. The spotless lamb of God, Jesus, was sent to be the final sacrifice for all mankind. It is pretty amazing to think about.

Of course you don't believe any of that so it might not seem so amazing to you. Trust me though. It is truly awesome.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

The gospel saves. Catholic Dogma with its hail Mary's are unknown in Scripture, but that's beside the point. The only way to receive salvation is faith in Christ alone. God is holy, man is sinful, and has broken the law of holy God. A just and righteous God must punish sin or He is not holy. That is why Christ came and was born and took upon flesh. He did what man could never do, He fulfilled the law of God perfectly and never sinned and thus fulfilled all righteousness. He went to the cross where He bore the sin of all who would ever believe in Him. Since all sin must be punished, God punished Christ in the place of those who believe in Him. He endured the punishment that we deserved and suffered under the wrath of God.

Therefore, for all who believe in Him, their sin has been punished already, their guilt is removed, and their sin is taken away. What's more, not only is their sin taken away, but that perfect obedience of Christ is credited to their account. Therefore, the one who believes in Christ alone has their sin taken away, and in its place, God provides the righteousness of Christ: "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" 2nd Corinthians 5:21. Those who believe in Christ alone, apart from good works, will find Him to be a perfect Savior. He rose from the dead, defeating death for His people. That is why those who believe in Him have eternal life, are children of God, and will spend eternity in His fellowship. It is also why Christ is the only way. He is the only one who paid our debt, the only one with the righteousness that we need to be saved, the only Son of God, the Way, the Truth, the Life. All who turn from their sin and believe in Him will be saved.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

The gospel saves. Catholic Dogma with its hail Mary's are unknown in Scripture, but that's beside the point. The only way to receive salvation is faith in Christ alone. God is holy, man is sinful, and has broken the law of holy God. A just and righteous God must punish sin or He is not holy. That is why Christ came and was born and took upon flesh. He did what man could never do, He fulfilled the law of God perfectly and never sinned and thus fulfilled all righteousness. He went to the cross where He bore the son of all who would ever believe in Him. Since all sin must be punished, God punished Christ in the place of those who believe in Him. He endured the punishment that we deserved and suffered under the wrath of God. Therefore, for all who believe in Him, their sin has been punished already, their guilt is removed, and their sin is taken away. What's more, not only is their sin taken away, but that perfect obedience of Christ is credited to their account. Therefore, the Obe who believes in Christ alone has their sin taken away, and in its place, God provides the righteousness of Christ: "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" 2nd Corinthians 5:21. Those who believe in Christ alone, apart from good works, will find Him to be a perfect Savior. He rose from the dead, defeating death for His people. That is why those who believe in Him have eternal life, are children of God, and will spend eternity in His fellowship. It is also why Christ is the only way. He is the only one who paid our debt, the only one with the righteousness that we need to be saved, the only Son of God, the Way, the Truth, the Life. All who turn from their sin and believe in Him will be saved.

Nope.

Drink some Christ blood right before you die and you're safe.

 

[Glitch]

Nope.

Drink some Christ blood right before you die and you're safe.

You have proven that you are highly intelligent. It isn't polite to mock a person's faith. If you don't want to believe that is your decision but you should be cruel to others because the do believe.

Maybe you were joking. If so I shouldn't be so sensitive but faith is very important to folks.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Nope.

Drink some Christ blood right before you die and you're safe.

I don't know you man or your history, but I encourage you to consider your life, your mortality. Christ said himself that He is the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Him. Is He a liar? Is He a lunatic? Is He Lord? Man's biggest need is forgiveness of sin and it is available to us in Christ alone.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

You have proven that you are highly intelligent. It isn't polite to mock a person's faith. If you don't want to believe that is your decision but you should be cruel to others because the do believe.

Maybe you were joking. If so I shouldn't be so sensitive but faith is very important to folks.

It was mostly a transubstantiation joke and partly a joke about how a previous post of mine was replied too.

Lots of things are very important to lots of folks. For some it's faith. For some it's non-gendered pronouns. I can always put up trigger warnings if y'all need. Most of the people around here throw around the term snowflake so much I assumed that kind of thing wouldn't be needed, but I can always throw one in next time

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

👀👀👀

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I don't know you man or your history, but I encourage you to consider your life, your mortality. Christ said himself that He is the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Him. Is He a liar? Is He a lunatic? Is He Lord? Man's biggest need is forgiveness of sin and it is available to us in Christ alone.

The Pope is the mouthpiece for god on earth, as all previous popes have been. We're talking about the guys who set the course of what all Christian canon and beliefs would come to be at the councils of Nicea. The guys who hand picked which of the various early Christian writings would end up in the Bible as we know it today. The guys who deduced that receiving the Eucharist makes one's soul a clean slate free from sin.

Surely guys making decisions that big wouldn't have been allowed to make any mistakes, right. Thus, transubstantiation FTW.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

It was mostly a transubstantiation joke and partly a joke about how a previous post of mine was replied too.

Lots of things are very important to lots of folks. For some it's faith. For some it's non-gendered pronouns. I can always put up trigger warnings if y'all need. Most of the people around here throw around the term snowflake so much I assumed that kind of thing wouldn't be needed, but I can always throw one in next time

You're not bothering me. I've had a lot worse said to me, even in the other forum about Lebron 😂. But this life is the only one we have. My concern is for you. You may reject that concern, but it is a real concern. Ive laid out the gospel above, I can only do what Paul did in 2nd Corinthians 5:20 and implore you to be reconciled to God.

 

[Glitch]

It was mostly a transubstantiation joke and partly a joke about how a previous post of mine was replied too.

Lots of things are very important to lots of folks. For some it's faith. For some it's non-gendered pronouns. I can always put up trigger warnings if y'all need. Most of the people around here throw around the term snowflake so much I assumed that kind of thing wouldn't be needed, but I can always throw one in next time

I am not triggered. I have seen enough proof of God in my life that your little displays of intellectual prowess could never account for. I have seen miracles and felt God stir my heart. You can ridicule and tease all you want. I would hope that you would respect people's faith enough not to but you certainly feel free.

I would search my heart though if I were you. Open it up to look for the miracles in your own life. Don't close it off because you think you have book knowledge on your side.

Don't you fret about triggering me. I am right as the rain.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

The Pope is the mouthpiece for god on earth, as all previous popes have been. We're talking about the guys who set the course of what all Christian canon and beliefs would come to be at the councils of Nicea. The guys who hand picked which of the various early Christian writings would end up in the Bible as we know it today. The guys who deduced that receiving the Eucharist makes one's soul a clean slate free from sin.

Surely guys making decisions that big wouldn't have been allowed to make any mistakes, right. Thus, transubstantiation FTW.

Apparently you have a Roman Catholic background. I know you're joking so I won't bother responding to all of the errors in that post 😂, such as Nicea, which had to do with Arianism and not deciding the course of Christian canon and beliefs.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

👀👀👀

👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

 

[Nash_Vol97]

👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

 

[JRVOL11]

👀👀👀

👀👀👀👀

 

[Glitch]

The Pope is the mouthpiece for god on earth, as all previous popes have been. We're talking about the guys who set the course of what all Christian canon and beliefs would come to be at the councils of Nicea. The guys who hand picked which of the various early Christian writings would end up in the Bible as we know it today. The guys who deduced that receiving the Eucharist makes one's soul a clean slate free from sin.

Surely guys making decisions that big wouldn't have been allowed to make any mistakes, right. Thus, transubstantiation FTW.

The bread and cup as the body and blood of Christ are done in remembrance of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Taking communion doesn't not forgive your sins. Faith that Chrsit has died for your sins already does. Taking communion is a way for us to remind ourselves with a physical expression and draw ourselves further into a relationship with God. The idea of transubstantiation is again dogma. You are focusing on a lot of Catholicism which was founded when most people couldn't read or write and depended solely on the church to tell them right from wrong. The books in the bible are widely held to be of first hand accounts of those closest to Jesus and then the events that followed his ascension into heaven. People looking to discredit Christianity try to use the Council of Nicea. However, the four gospels included were written by those present throughout Jesus' ministry and then most of the rest were written by Paul who, again, was chosen and had a great deal of first hand knowledge. The other books were not written until much later.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

The bread and cup as the body and blood of Christ are done in remembrance of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Taking communion doesn't not forgive your sins. Faith that Chrsit has died for your sins already does. Taking communion is a way for us to remind ourselves with a physical expression and draw ourselves further into a relationship with God. The idea of transubstantiation is again dogma. You are focusing on a lot of Catholicism which was founded when most people couldn't read or write and depended solely on the church to tell them right from wrong. The books in the bible are widely held to be of first hand accounts of those closest to Jesus and then the events that followed his ascension into heaven. People looking to discredit Christianity try to use the Council of Nicea. However, the four gospels included were written by those present throughout Jesus' ministry and then most of the rest were written by Paul who, again, was chosen and had a great deal of first hand knowledge. The other books were not written until much later.

Nicea was a very important council that was held to defend against Arianism. They upheld the orthodox view of the church. Any of the bologna out there about some great conspiracy led by Constantine is foolishness. All of the New Testament writings with the exception of Hebrews (which, who knows, could have been written by Paul but probably not) were written either by the Apostles of those close with the Apostles (Mark and Luke), or James, the Lord's brother, and pastor of the church in Jerusalem (Acts 15), and Jude, another of the Lord's brothers. they were eyewitnesses to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. John makes a big point about that in his first epistle (1 John 1:1-3). Every book of the New Testament was written while eyewitnesses were still alive and Paul even appeals to them in 1 Corinthians 15:6. The last book of the New Testament to be written was Revelation, written by the Apostle John in mid to late 90s.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

The Pope is the mouthpiece for god on earth, as all previous popes have been. We're talking about the guys who set the course of what all Christian canon and beliefs would come to be at the councils of Nicea. The guys who hand picked which of the various early Christian writings would end up in the Bible as we know it today. The guys who deduced that receiving the Eucharist makes one's soul a clean slate free from sin.

Surely guys making decisions that big wouldn't have been allowed to make any mistakes, right. Thus, transubstantiation FTW.

Could you show me the scripture for your first sentence? God doesn't need a mouthpiece...His holy scriptures are His mouthpiece. Jesus said in Revelation 22:18-19 to not add to nor take away from the scriptures. That was around 95-96 AD when John wrote Revelation through inspiration of the Holy Spirit. That is when the scriptures reached full completion; therefore, anything that came after that was added and is against Jesus' command.

 

[BigZiti09]

Matthew 7:6

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Nicea was a very important council that was held to defend against Arianism. They upheld the orthodox view of the church.

Apparently you have a Roman Catholic background. I know you're joking so I won't bother responding to all of the errors in that post 😂, such as Nicea, which had to do with Arianism and not deciding the course of Christian canon and beliefs.

A canon of books was not decided on at the council of Nicea, but it set the stage for it. Constantine started ordering Bibles after it, and the first records of church leaders deciding on a canon is in the decades following the council of Nicea.

As for "not deciding the course of Christian canon or beliefs," or "defending against Arianism" most historians would probably call this statement apocryphal (pardon the pun, I just couldn't resist). Prior to the Council of Nicea, there was no orthodoxy to defend and branches of the church in different areas often had somewhat differing (and sometimes vastly differing) interpretations of the relation of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit.

You're right that the main matter of dispute was Arianism vs Trinitarianism. But those are vastly opposing ideas about the nature of Christ! And a big chunk of the church leaders gathered at Nicea went into the whole ordeal with a "let's get all of this figured out and agreed upon once and for all" mindset, not a "we have to defend the church from this heresy!" mindset. Most of the people there were looking to find a compromise between two sides that were (at the time) tearing the Christian world apart. The Trinitarian side came out on top in the end, of course. However, before this the council Arians were very much a part of the church. A lot of bishops and church leaders went in Arian, argued for Arianism for a few weeks, and ultimately signed on in the end when it became clear the Trinitarians were gaining the upper hand. Arians didn't become "enemies" of the church until after the Council of Nicea all came to an agreement over what the official stance of the church was going to be on the relation of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit.


The reason the Council of Nicea is important is because before the council, there was no official church "stance" on the very nature of christ. Arianism and it's view of Jesus as a lesser being than God started in the 3rd century and was all the rage by the 4th century, but it wasn't the first movement. You can go through just about decade from the time Christianity began until the council of Nicea (and long after it as well, I guess) and find sects of the church that had differing views on the nature of Christ in relation to God and the Holy Spirit. You can even see evidence in books from the NT of early movements in the first and second century, like Docetism (basically a belief some had that Jesus never existed as a man but only as a spirit in the shape of a man), that had relatively large followings and made it difficult for the church to organize and grow.


The Council of Nicea allowed the early church to come to its first ever consensus about the holy trinity and thus set the path for the way that basically all Christians in the world from about the 8th-9th century onwards see the Holy Trinity. Saying that council didn't decide the course of Christian beliefs just isn't true.

 

[WallyBalls]

He flipp flopped at times on his beliefs. Plenty of christians do that. He always said he believed in god, FWIW. Sounds like he had problems with organized religion more than anything.

Doesn't change the fact that in his final moments he was taking solace in the presence of a priest.

Well, no, its doesn't change those facts.

But I don't think any one would agree his association with those things are what drove him to park that truck in OKC.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

The bread and cup as the body and blood of Christ are done in remembrance of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Taking communion doesn't not forgive your sins. Faith that Chrsit has died for your sins already does. Taking communion is a way for us to remind ourselves with a physical expression and draw ourselves further into a relationship with God.

No. Jesus spelled it out in his own words right there in the bible: "take this and drink it, for it is my blood." He never said "take this and drink it, because it represents my blood."

The idea of transubstantiation is again dogma. You are focusing on a lot of Catholicism which was founded when most people couldn't read or write and depended solely on the church to tell them right from wrong.

And? You can make this argument for every form of religion until about 250-300 years ago! Heck, it's very likely that a good number of the apostles themselves weren't literate.


I'll put my money on the one that can actually trace their lineage all the way back to the first leaders of the church, not any of the hundreds of offshoots that started over a thousand years later and can't even decide on whether they're allowed to have a piano in their church or whether drinking alcohol is allowed or not (despite the fact that Jesus himself made alcohol).

The books in the bible are widely held to be of first hand accounts of those closest to Jesus and then the events that followed his ascension into heaven. People looking to discredit Christianity try to use the Council of Nicea. However, the four gospels included were written by those present throughout Jesus' ministry and then most of the rest were written by Paul who, again, was chosen and had a great deal of first hand knowledge. The other books were not written until much later.

I wasn't trying to imply that there is debate over authorship/dating of the Gospels, by any means (though there is still a lot of debate/study amongst scholars over why exactly John is so different from the Synoptic Gospels...probably the closest answer to that is just the obvious one: it was written the latest and in a different political climate).


As far as the Council of Nicea goes, most churches had some collection of between 20-30 books they considered canon. There was some debate over some of the books that rounded out the current day NT, such as Hebrews, Revelations, and one or two others. In the decades that followed the early church created an orthodoxy, the first attempts at settling on a canon began and the result was the current NT used by the Catholic church (which of course influenced the canon of Protestant offshoots).

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Well, no, its doesn't change those facts.

But I don't think any one would agree his association with those things are what drove him to park that truck in OKC.

The same can be said about many (not all) Muslim terrorists too though. Terrorism is, by definition, an act done for political aims. Those guys are still Islamic terrorists though. And McVeigh was still a christian terrorist.