Recruiting Forum Off Topic Thread III

[Bassmaster_Vol]

My birth happened in the past, is it just a belief?

...or doesn't my existence today prove it as more than a belief?


I think the vacuum that is Jesus' life is why most have issue with the history and proving it. As you yourself point out it's just words of men written down and passed along, and how many men actually knew Jesus directly in a time of such poor connection to the rest of the world? Hundreds? Thousands?

I don't know it's hard to give proof when the majority of it exist within the scripture you're trying to validate I guess.

All of ancient history is recorded in the same was as the life of Christ. If you can't accept the New Testament, the most attested book in all of ancient literature, then you really can't accept anything in ancient history. Who knows where we came from?

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

I'd like to know that story, actually. The only requirement for knowing Christ is turning from sin and believing in Him.

well, a lot of "Christians" may disagree with you.

 

[bignewt]

the same chance as a chimpanzee typing furiously on a keyboard and just happening to type out a Shakespearean novel. Makes sense.

Well Shakespeare didn't write novels but yes if a chimp sat a keyboard billions of times he would type out the combination that is Hamlet eventually.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I interpret it differently. All religions are leading to the same god. I read it as him condemning people that pretend to be showing the way but are just trying to further their own agenda or are in pursuit of some worldly gains.

But that isn't what He said though, is it? He who believes in Me is saved. He who does not believe in Me is condemned. That isn't hard to interpret.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

well, a lot of "Christians" may disagree with you.

They wouldn't be disagreeing with me.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Didn't say that. There is a reason why it's all here, something caused it. I believe in intelligent design but not some small minded mortal men's version of it. We cannot fathom why we are here just like we can't fly or travel in time.

So you prefer the view that some intelligence designed it and then just left us alone. He cared enough to create us on this planet but not enough to actually be able to know Him in any way or even to reveal Himself to us? Are you a Deist, then?

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Well Shakespeare didn't write novels but yes if a chimp sat a keyboard billions of times he would type out the combination that is Hamlet eventually.

You really believe that. A chimpanzee banging mindlessly on a computer would eventually type out Hamlet perfectly. Not a random combination, but perfectly. Because that is the order in creation. It's perfect.

 

[chargervol]

Saying someone is wrong isn't insulting their beliefs. If you have cancer and are dying though you think you feel pretty good, you don't say that the doctor who diagnoses you with cancer is insulting you, do you?

We have to stop thinking that everyone who questions us is insulting us. The only harsh language thrown around here today has been directed at me. And I'm not over here complaining about my beliefs being insulted, am I? No. So why is it that everyone else is insulted when I question their beliefs, but its perfectly acceptable for the 10 or so on here today to question mine. It's really strange actually.

Why get insulted about an important discussion? If you can't discuss your beliefs without feeling insulted, then avoid the topic. It isn't that hard.

And, by the way, my approach today has been much softer than what we find in the New Testament where Paul says this: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8-9

So if I want to reach people, I will do it the way that I see taught in the New Testament. The gospel is scandalous and offensive. I can't help that.

I was talking about Gandhi and really don't know what you're talking about. In this post, I see you accusing others of being insulted but you seem overly defensive. I know I didn't say anything about you.

Without reading the rest of the conversation, the only other thing I can respond to is you saying you're "reaching people" or trying to.
I could give my feedback but your above words sound like you're more interested in justifying the technique, than if you are actually reaching anyone.

I haven't been involved with any of the rest.

 

[TheMagnificantOne]

Cesare Borgia Loves Ya

 

[scvolfan7]

But that isn't what He said though, is it? He who believes in Me is saved. He who does not believe in Me is condemned. That isn't hard to interpret.

He’s god. There is one god. All religions lead to the same god.

 

[Ron Swanson]

You are free to think and decide for yourself what you choose to believe, but I ask you to just consider how improbable we are scientifically. The exactness of everything is astounding. If the Earth was a fraction off axis to the Sun, there would be no life. If the Moon was a fraction off axis to the Earth, there would be no life. The millions upon millions of little miracles that occur in just one human cell should at the very least make you wonder how it all could just occur from atoms smashing together. We are insignificant yes, but we are statistically astronomically improbable creatures.

Absolutely, we're extremely lucky to be alive, live on earth and get these experiences. 100000% in agreement there. Earth and its creatures are mind blowingly amazing to me. But that doesn't make me believe there's a man in the sky watching our every move, sending us to heaven or hell based on our beliefs and actions, or that he created all of this and has control over everything, and doesn't make mistakes, etc..I don't know how or why we're here and no one else does either.

I believe its much more complicated than our underdeveloped brains can comprehend and that we're all just a tiny insignificant blip on this journey. And I don't need the Bible or any other book or religion to help me along the way. Some do, and that's totally cool with me, I have no problem with that. I'm not trying to force beliefs on anyone. I'm just a dumb human being trying to be a good husband and father and enjoy my short stay on earth.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I was talking about Gandhi and really don't know what you're talking about. In this post, I see you accusing others of being insulted but you seem overly defensive. I know I didn't say anything about you.

Without reading the rest of the conversation, the only other thing I can respond to is you saying you're "reaching people" or trying to.
I could give my feedback but your above words sound like you're more interested in justifying the technique, than if you are actually reaching anyone.

I haven't been involved with any of the rest.

I'm just answering questions. I'm not afraid of the questions that anyone wants to ask about Christ or the Bible on here. I don't feel insulted, but I do see this as the only opportunity I have to tell the truth to hundreds of people who read this board who I will never meet in real life. Thus, this is the only avenue I have to answer the questions that you guys have and to keep pointing to Christ. I have not been offensive, I have not insulted anyone, I have not used harsh language towards anyone. It seems that the only things that people have taken offense to are actually the words of Christ Himself. I can't help it if people read a tone into my writing that isn't there in real life. I'm just using the only avenue afforded me to answer these questions. Hopefully some people on here actually want to hear them answered and aren't trying to play "gotcha". For those people, I hope to have some positive impact on them today.

 

[pismonque]

Hey guys, Jesus just said He wants us to stop talking about all this crap. He said it was cool when we were just making Baptist jokes but now we’re killing the whole vibe of the RF.

I get these visitations from time to time.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

He’s god. There is one god. All religions lead to the same god.

That's not what Jesus said, nor what the Old or New Testament teaches.

 

[bignewt]

So you prefer the view that some intelligence designed it and then just left us alone. He cared enough to create us on this planet but not enough to actually be able to know Him in any way or even to reveal Himself to us? Are you a Deist, then?

Care enough to let children starve to death? Or let people live their entire lives believing in a false doctrine that will condemn them to hell? Your God has some funny ways of revealing. Again I don't know if the intelligent design is watching over us or observing or has already checked out. No idea. A mortal mind cannot fathom something like that, how can I know what happens to my soul when I die, because there is no two-way mirror between life and death. Humans created religion to answer the unknowable. That sir is what being agnostic is all about.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Care enough to let children starve to death? Or let people live their entire lives believing in a false doctrine that will condemn them to hell? Your God has some funny ways of revealing. Again I don't know if the intelligent design is watching over us or observing or has already checked out. No idea. A mortal mind cannot fathom something like that, how can I know what happens to my soul when I die, because there is no two-way mirror between life and death. Humans created religion to answer the unknowable. That sir is what being agnostic is all about.

You are more than welcome to be agnostic, but you say a lot of things with certainty for a guy who subscribes to an ideology that claims to not know for sure.

 

[bignewt]

I'm just answering questions. I'm not afraid of the questions that anyone wants to ask about Christ or the Bible on here. I don't feel insulted, but I do see this as the only opportunity I have to tell the truth to hundreds of people who read this board who I will never meet in real life. Thus, this is the only avenue I have to answer the questions that you guys have and to keep pointing to Christ. I have not been offensive, I have not insulted anyone, I have not used harsh language towards anyone. It seems that the only things that people have taken offense to are actually the words of Christ Himself. I can't help it if people read a tone into my writing that isn't there in real life. I'm just using the only avenue afforded me to answer these questions. Hopefully some people on here actually want to hear them answered and aren't trying to play "gotcha". For those people, I hope to have some positive impact on them today.

Hey Bass, for the record, I really enjoy these discussions with you.

 

[jakez4ut]

Okay... whatever you say.

Not me... Words you posted.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Hey Bass, for the record, I really enjoy these discussions with you.

Thanks Big Newt. I enjoy them as well. This is very intellectually challenging for me. Its fun to do this every now and then.

 

[bignewt]

You are more than welcome to be agnostic, but you say a lot of things with certainty for a guy who subscribes to an ideology that claims to not know for sure.

I am certain that there is no way to be sure, how's that?

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I am certain that there is no way to be sure, how's that?

LOL

 

[scvolfan7]

That's not what Jesus said, nor what the Old or New Testament teaches.

How?

 

[MoCo_Vol]

That's not what Jesus said, nor what the Old or New Testament teaches.

What did he say then? Cause to be fair, the bible wasn't written by Jesus...and the version you keep quoting isn't even the original language it was written in.

 

[chargervol]

I'm just answering questions. I'm not afraid of the questions that anyone wants to ask about Christ or the Bible on here. I don't feel insulted, but I do see this as the only opportunity I have to tell the truth to hundreds of people who read this board who I will never meet in real life. Thus, this is the only avenue I have to answer the questions that you guys have and to keep pointing to Christ. I have not been offensive, I have not insulted anyone, I have not used harsh language towards anyone. It seems that the only things that people have taken offense to are actually the words of Christ Himself. I can't help it if people read a tone into my writing that isn't there in real life. I'm just using the only avenue afforded me to answer these questions. Hopefully some people on here actually want to hear them answered and aren't trying to play "gotcha". For those people, I hope to have some positive impact on them today.

Again, I didn't ask any questions. I made a post about Gandhi and you asked, which is no problem. But would prefer "you guys" not be used in replies to me.

But I'll give my *opinion* on one of your answers. While scripture may tell how they reached or suggested reaching people back then, which do you think Jesus found to be the goal.
A never changing technique or actually reaching people? I'm definitely not a scholar but was under the impression bringing people in was the more important of the 2.

 

[bluegrasser]

ok, I’m at lunch so I’m gonna keep throwing out some ideas:

I am a Christian and was taught that after death, our immortal soul continues on.

But have you thought about where you were or who you were BEFORE you were born?

The Bible says “Before I formed you in your mother’s womb I knew you.”

To me, this means that your eternal soul has always (and will always) exist.

People spend too much time worrying about what happens after death when we should realize that what happens before your body existed in its current, brief physical form is just as interesting.

The Buddhist concept of Dharma captures this in the analogy of wave and ocean. If we think of our existence on this earth as each one of us being a wave on the surface of the ocean - unique And definite, but temporary. Some are small ripples, some are huge crashing waves, some are short and brief, some are tsunamis. But What is a wave before it becomes a wave; and what is a wave after it crashes on the beach? If you look at the existence of the wave itself as birth-life-death, then you can understand this quote from Thich Nhat Hahn “Enlightenment is when the Wave understands that it IS the Ocean.”

Spend a day thinking about that. It can be a really empowering concept.

An aphoristic way of describing that empowerment is the following:

The sky looked down at some waves as they formed on the ocean and headed toward the shore. The sky asked the first wave “what are you?”
And the wave said - “just a wave, blown by the winds and headed toward that terrifying shore to end soon.”

The second wave replied “I’m just a temporary ripple on top of the ocean, pulled by currents and the wind and will be exitingished soon when i crash on the beach.”

However, the third wave, when asked “ what are you?”, proudly answered “I AM THE OCEAN!”



As you argue and discuss with people about condemnation and salvation you are only discussing what happens after the crashing on the beach. It’s kind of eye opening to think about - what was I before i was even a wave to begin with?