Recruiting forum off topic thread (no politics, covid, or hot button issues)

[volinokc]

I did research on that group. It is not what you think it is.

The fact that they use the Bud Light situation as an example of their cause is all you need to know. I just can’t understand why some groups are so gullible. Maybe it’s being force fed a narrative by a media ecosystem for years that does it?

 

[Orange_Crush]

The fact that they use the Bud Light situation as an example of their cause is all you need to know. I just can’t understand why some groups are so gullible. Maybe it’s being force fed a narrative by a media ecosystem for years that does it?

So, my question is this: Are they who they claim to be, or is their website lying? I think that's where one needs to start, as opposed to "that's all we need to know" type statements.

Their website has bios of of their supposed board members, which includes many leadership roles across native tribes. Their education page gives a history of the term "redskin", and why it's been important to the native community for hundreds of years.

I think these are two foundational issues that should probably be considered. Do they represent an authentic view within the native community, and is the history of the term that they present true?

 

[bignewt]

Who is NAGA?

NAGA’s website said it advocates for educating people about indigenous people’s issues, particularly through sports, rather than by eradicating the mascots those schools used. The Colorado lawsuit is its first, the association told Colorado Politics, although its members have been expert witnesses in other lawsuits over similar issues.

The organization has been criticized in the past for alleged ties to Dan Snyder, owner of the Washington Football Team. Both NAGA and Snyder deny any such ties. The 2020 Sports Illustrated story on Snyder’s team and a foundation he developed — and later closed — to support Native Americans said that, while direct ties between NAGA and Snyder are “hard to find,” indirect ties may exist. The SI article quoted Penobscot Nation Ambassador Maulian Dana, who said it is “kind of common knowledge in the activist community that there is a strong relationship” between NAGA and Snyder’s team.

NAGA’s finances are also a bit of a mystery. Charity Navigator, which rates nonprofits, has not issued a rating for NAGA because it files only a 990EZ, which applies to organizations with less than $200,000 in annual contributions. The SI article pointed out that NAGA did not file a 990, which is required for groups with more than $50,000 in annual contributions, in 2017 or 2018.

A GoFundMe page set up in November last year to help NAGA with its 2021 mission raised $200.


NAGA’s Facebook page claims the organization has “stood alone as the National representative voice of a documented 91% of American Indians who do not want our names and imagery eradicated.”

 

[volinokc]

So, my question is this: Are they who they claim to be, or is their website lying? I think that's where one needs to start, as opposed to "that's all we need to know" type statements.

Their website has bios of of their supposed board members, which includes many leadership roles across native tribes. Their education page gives a history of the term "redskin", and why it's been important to the native community for hundreds of years.

I think these are two foundational issues that should probably be considered. Do they represent an authentic view within the native community, and is the history of the term that they present true?

My advice is that when something is touching on such a hot button cultural issue, and uses a second hot button cultural issue as relevance, you might first consider what or who is behind it. Without passing judgement on the issues themselves, you can at least immediately accept that this group is staking their flag firmly in one side. This sets everyone up to enter the discussion loaded with their entrenched biases.

So, I would dig deeper than just the bios and website because that sure seems like pure propaganda.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Who is NAGA?

NAGA’s website said it advocates for educating people about indigenous people’s issues, particularly through sports, rather than by eradicating the mascots those schools used. The Colorado lawsuit is its first, the association told Colorado Politics, although its members have been expert witnesses in other lawsuits over similar issues.

The organization has been criticized in the past for alleged ties to Dan Snyder, owner of the Washington Football Team. Both NAGA and Snyder deny any such ties. The 2020 Sports Illustrated story on Snyder’s team and a foundation he developed — and later closed — to support Native Americans said that, while direct ties between NAGA and Snyder are “hard to find,” indirect ties may exist. The SI article quoted Penobscot Nation Ambassador Maulian Dana, who said it is “kind of common knowledge in the activist community that there is a strong relationship” between NAGA and Snyder’s team.

NAGA’s finances are also a bit of a mystery. Charity Navigator, which rates nonprofits, has not issued a rating for NAGA because it files only a 990EZ, which applies to organizations with less than $200,000 in annual contributions. The SI article pointed out that NAGA did not file a 990, which is required for groups with more than $50,000 in annual contributions, in 2017 or 2018.

A GoFundMe page set up in November last year to help NAGA with its 2021 mission raised $200.


NAGA’s Facebook page claims the organization has “stood alone as the National representative voice of a documented 91% of American Indians who do not want our names and imagery eradicated.”

So, they are who they claim to be (?), but there are assumed connections to Washington football, that haven't been proven, are notably hard to prove, but are claimed to be "kind of common knowledge" among some "activist" community(ies) that are assumed to be a more trustworthy activist community than the one in question?

OK. Thx

Now, their website claims that they are a collection of Native Americans, many of whom are leaders within their tribal governments. Their website claims a native nation historical view of the term.

It would be interesting to know whether those claims are false, within the context of unproven accusations by groups who may be admittedly "activist-ing" in opposition to what may be a legitimate group.

 

[Orange_Crush]

My advice is that when something is touching on such a hot button cultural issue, and uses a second hot button cultural issue as relevance, you might first consider what or who is behind it. Without passing judgement on the issues themselves, you can at least immediately accept that this group is staking their flag firmly in one side. This sets everyone up to enter the discussion loaded with their entrenched biases.

So, I would dig deeper than just the bios and website because that sure seems like pure propaganda.

Your advice was that it was "all you need to you".

 

[volinokc]

Who is NAGA?

NAGA’s website said it advocates for educating people about indigenous people’s issues, particularly through sports, rather than by eradicating the mascots those schools used. The Colorado lawsuit is its first, the association told Colorado Politics, although its members have been expert witnesses in other lawsuits over similar issues.

The organization has been criticized in the past for alleged ties to Dan Snyder, owner of the Washington Football Team. Both NAGA and Snyder deny any such ties. The 2020 Sports Illustrated story on Snyder’s team and a foundation he developed — and later closed — to support Native Americans said that, while direct ties between NAGA and Snyder are “hard to find,” indirect ties may exist. The SI article quoted Penobscot Nation Ambassador Maulian Dana, who said it is “kind of common knowledge in the activist community that there is a strong relationship” between NAGA and Snyder’s team.

NAGA’s finances are also a bit of a mystery. Charity Navigator, which rates nonprofits, has not issued a rating for NAGA because it files only a 990EZ, which applies to organizations with less than $200,000 in annual contributions. The SI article pointed out that NAGA did not file a 990, which is required for groups with more than $50,000 in annual contributions, in 2017 or 2018.

A GoFundMe page set up in November last year to help NAGA with its 2021 mission raised $200.


NAGA’s Facebook page claims the organization has “stood alone as the National representative voice of a documented 91% of American Indians who do not want our names and imagery eradicated.”

You had to know there was big money behind this. Every group has individuals who will sell their soul because the system is going to eat them anyhow.
It seems like there is an author who wrote stories about just that sort of thing…

 

[volinokc]

Your advice was that it was "all you need to you".

Ok

 

[volinokc]

So, they are who they claim to be (?), but there are assumed connections to Washington football, that haven't been proven, are notably hard to prove, but are claimed to be "kind of common knowledge" among some "activist" community(ies) that are assumed to be a more trustworthy activist community than the one in question?

OK. Thx

Now, their website claims that they are a collection of Native Americans, many of whom are leaders within their tribal governments. Their website claims a native nation historical view of the term.

It would be interesting to know whether those claims are false, within the context of unproven accusations by groups who may be admittedly "activist-ing" in opposition to what may be a legitimate group.

There’s a website that says I’m the King of England and entitled to all your possessions.

But seriously, don’t withhold skepticism simply because they are presenting a story that you want to be true.

 

[Orange_Crush]

The fact that they use the Bud Light situation as an example of their cause is all you need to know. I just can’t understand why some groups are so gullible. Maybe it’s being force fed a narrative by a media ecosystem for years that does it?

So wait. Just to play devil's advocate here. I legitimately don't know where the golden strand of truth runs here, but you're willing to read their website and fall on the side of assumptions that it looks like propaganda. Then read or hear reference to articles, and assume it's not propaganda because "you had to know..."

Not sure I understand your rationale, besides the appearance that you'd made your mind up before the facts.

I would go back to, are the claims on the website true? Are these a collection of legitimate Native Peoples' leadership? Is the term 'Redskin' a legitimate historic self-referential term of pride that they deserve to try to redeem?

If these two facts are true, then it seems a little racist to just assume their motives and connections as a way to shut down their cause.

It rings a bit like progressives trying to negate the discussions by conservative blacks by mere use of the perjorative terms "Uncle Tom" or "House .......".

Note: I don't know what's true, thus me asking. But in a culture of "relative truth" where we get our info from competing "activists", I'm not sure it's wise to make assumptions about one side merely by the self-admittedly unproven accusations of their competing "activists". We should all know some of the common "activities" of activists, when it comes to narrative.

 

[Orange_Crush]

There’s a website that says I’m the King of England and entitled to all your possessions.

But seriously, don’t withhold skepticism simply because they are presenting a story that you want to be true.

You had to know there was big money behind this. Every group has individuals who will sell their soul because the system is going to eat them anyhow.
It seems like there is an author who wrote stories about just that sort of thing…

So wait. Just to play devil's advocate here. I legitimately don't know where the golden strand of truth runs here, but you're willing to read their website and fall on the side of assumptions that it looks like propaganda. Then read or hear reference to articles, and assume it's not propaganda because "you had to know..."

Not sure I understand your rationale, besides the appearance that you'd made your mind up before the facts.

I would go back to, are the claims on the website true? Are these a collection of legitimate Native Peoples' leadership? Is the term 'Redskin' a legitimate historic self-referential term of pride that they deserve to try to redeem?

If these two facts are true, then it seems a little racist to just assume their motives and connections as a way to shut down their cause.

It rings a bit like progressives trying to negate the discussions by conservative blacks by mere use of the perjorative terms "Uncle Tom" or "House .......".

Note: I don't know what's true, thus me asking. But in a culture of "relative truth" where we get our info from competing "activists", I'm not sure it's wise to make assumptions about one side merely by the self-admittedly unproven accusations of their competing "activists". We should all know some of the common "activities" of activists, when it comes to narrative.

Ironic.

You seem to be in need of heeding your own advice.

Me: I don't know... Ask questions... == Not withholding skepticism.

You: "You had to know there was big money behind this." == Withholding skepticism.

Is this really the direction you want to take things?

 

[volbeast33]

Who is NAGA?

NAGA’s website said it advocates for educating people about indigenous people’s issues, particularly through sports, rather than by eradicating the mascots those schools used. The Colorado lawsuit is its first, the association told Colorado Politics, although its members have been expert witnesses in other lawsuits over similar issues.

The organization has been criticized in the past for alleged ties to Dan Snyder, owner of the Washington Football Team. Both NAGA and Snyder deny any such ties. The 2020 Sports Illustrated story on Snyder’s team and a foundation he developed — and later closed — to support Native Americans said that, while direct ties between NAGA and Snyder are “hard to find,” indirect ties may exist. The SI article quoted Penobscot Nation Ambassador Maulian Dana, who said it is “kind of common knowledge in the activist community that there is a strong relationship” between NAGA and Snyder’s team.

NAGA’s finances are also a bit of a mystery. Charity Navigator, which rates nonprofits, has not issued a rating for NAGA because it files only a 990EZ, which applies to organizations with less than $200,000 in annual contributions. The SI article pointed out that NAGA did not file a 990, which is required for groups with more than $50,000 in annual contributions, in 2017 or 2018.

A GoFundMe page set up in November last year to help NAGA with its 2021 mission raised $200.


NAGA’s Facebook page claims the organization has “stood alone as the National representative voice of a documented 91% of American Indians who do not want our names and imagery eradicated.”

Snyder doesn’t own Washington…. How would that be relevant now?

 

[volinokc]

So wait. Just to play devil's advocate here. I legitimately don't know where the golden strand of truth runs here, but you're willing to read their website and fall on the side of assumptions that it looks like propaganda. Then read or hear reference to articles, and assume it's not propaganda because "you had to know..."

Not sure I understand your rationale, besides the appearance that you'd made your mind up before the facts.

I would go back to, are the claims on the website true? Are these a collection of legitimate Native Peoples' leadership? Is the term 'Redskin' a legitimate historic self-referential term of pride that they deserve to try to redeem?

If these two facts are true, then it seems a little racist to just assume their motives and connections as a way to shut down their cause.

It rings a bit like progressives trying to negate the discussions by conservative blacks by mere use of the perjorative terms "Uncle Tom" or "House .......".

Note: I don't know what's true, thus me asking. But in a culture of "relative truth" where we get our info from competing "activists", I'm not sure it's wise to make assumptions about one side merely by the self-admittedly unproven accusations of their competing "activists". We should all know some of the common "activities" of activists, when it comes to narrative.

You got me on the first part.

The rest of your post…no, this isn’t a woke thing. Most people I’ve interacted with who have a stake in this issue could care less about the politics of it all.

To assume this word could be a historical term of pride is silly at best. As I’ve said before, we are not the people to be arguing the merits of the use of the term, so we should go ahead and end the discussion on that.

However, I will bet my house this group is not all they present themselves to be.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You got me on the first part.

The rest of your post…no, this isn’t a woke thing. Most people I’ve interacted with who have a stake in this issue could care less about the politics of it all.

To assume this word could be a historical term of pride is silly at best. As I’ve said before, we are not the people to be arguing the merits of the use of the term, so we should go ahead and end the discussion on that.

However, I will bet my house this group is not all they present themselves to be.

Question: Are these legitimate members and leaders of the Native Peoples? If so, one may be more hesitant to assume that they're not a legitimate group to be arguing the merits, or assume that their presented history of the term is "silly at best".

 

[volinokc]

Ironic.

You seem to be in need of heeding your own advice.

Me: I don't know... Ask questions... == Not withholding skepticism.

You: "You had to know there was big money behind this." == Withholding skepticism.

Is this really the direction you want to take things?

We are bombarded with information. Sometimes there are tells in that information that we should pay attention to. This one might as well have looked at it’s dealt hand and started doing cartwheels.

 

[Orange_Crush]

We are bombarded with information. Sometimes there are tells in that information that we should pay attention to. This one might as well have looked at it’s dealt hand and started doing cartwheels.

So, you weren't withholding skepticism... You are making assumptions.

 

[peaygolf]

Just for fun................

Jimmy Butler's historic 56 yard TD ve Bama in 1939.............

TENN. v ALABAMA- 1939 FOOTBALL - Film & Video Stock

 

[Glitch]

If the name of a sports team has any tangible impact on your day to day life one way or another, please raise your hand.


If your hand is raised, you need a job or a hobby to consume your free time so that the name of a sports team no longer has any tangible impact on your day to day life one way or another.

 

[Jackcrevol]

If the name of a sports team has any tangible impact on your day to day life one way or another, please raise your hand.


If your hand is raised, you need a job or a hobby to consume your free time so that the name of a sports team no longer has any tangible impact on your day to day life one way or another.

Dont tell me what to do.

 

[Glitch]

Dont tell me what to do.

Was your hand raised?

 

[volinokc]

So, you weren't withholding skepticism... You are making assumptions.

*educated guess

As with every conversation on this board, what’s the point if we aren’t both 100% confident that we alone have the correct perspective.

 

[knoxvol52]

Why aren't these groups beating their chest about a Tobacco company using the word RedMan and likeness to make a profit?? Just wondering

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

Just for fun................

Jimmy Butler's historic 56 yard TD ve Bama in 1939.............

TENN. v ALABAMA- 1939 FOOTBALL - Film & Video Stock

But we were unscored upon in 39! Why they saying Bama 15?

 

[bignewt]

Why aren't these groups beating their chest about a Tobacco company using the word RedMan and likeness to make a profit?? Just wondering

How do you know theyre not?

 

[bignewt]

If the name of a sports team has any tangible impact on your day to day life one way or another, please raise your hand.


If your hand is raised, you need a job or a hobby to consume your free time so that the name of a sports team no longer has any tangible impact on your day to day life one way or another.

talk about assumptions