'18 Recruiting Forum: Official Kentucky Pre-Game/Game Thread

#76
#76
Bassmaster_Vol said:
He gets hit sometimes before he completes the play action fake. I get that Jg could be faster, but to act like the OL is protecting fine and the hits he has taken are all his fault is absolute garbage
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They have their moments when the pass protect well. Run blocking has been few and far between.

But as a Qb and play caller you have to know that and adjust your play/play calls. I say it all the time. They are plenty teams in college and pros that find a way to be productive on offense with bad OL play.
 
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#78
#78
HankHill said:
I say it all the time. They are plenty teams in college and pros that find a way to be productive on offense with bad OL play.
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No, there really aren't. You'll be hard pressed to find winning football teams who have bad offensive lines. Let alone offensive lines as atrocious as ours. Our guys are grossly undersized, un-athletic, and too many times don't even know who to block post snap. It's embarrassing. I seriously question Will Friend as an OL coach simply based on how bad these guys look up front.

As far as 'finding things to do to be productive' or whatever... it isn't as though we have a grizzled veteran offensive coordinator. This is Heltons first year calling plays, and imo he leaves a lot to be desired as well.

But please, carry on with your anti-JG campaign.
 
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#80
#80
HoleInTheRoof said:
No, there really aren't. You'll be hard pressed to find winning football teams who have bad offensive lines. Let alone offensive lines as atrocious as ours. Our guys are grossly undersized, un-athletic, and too many times don't even know who to block post snap. It's embarrassing. I seriously question Will Friend as an OL coach simply based on how bad these guys look up front.

As far as 'finding things to do to be productive' or whatever... it isn't as though we have a grizzled veteran offensive coordinator. This is Heltons first year calling plays, and imo he leaves a lot to be desired as well.

But please, carry on with your anti-JG campaign.
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Yeah there’s only so much you can do with really bad OL play. The teams with truly bad OLs and and somewhat productive offenses usually fall into 2 categories: teams with little talent up front, but guys who don’t blow assignments or get many penalties or teams with bad OL play and game changing skill players somewhere on offense to compensate.


Obviously we fall into neither category. We have some good skill players, but nobody good enough to really compensated for an OL that can’t consistently get down their assignments.


There are plenty of teams with mediocre OLs who manage just fine, but our OL hasn’t even been able to put a body on a body consistently this year. If you can’t even do that, you’re offense isn’t gonna be consistent.
 
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#81
#81
HoleInTheRoof said:
No, there really aren't. You'll be hard pressed to find winning football teams who have bad offensive lines. Let alone offensive lines as atrocious as ours. Our guys are grossly undersized, un-athletic, and too many times don't even know who to block post snap. It's embarrassing. I seriously question Will Friend as an OL coach simply based on how bad these guys look up front.

As far as 'finding things to do to be productive' or whatever... it isn't as though we have a grizzled veteran offensive coordinator. This is Heltons first year calling plays, and imo he leaves a lot to be desired as well.

But please, carry on with your anti-JG campaign.
Click to expand...

That was actually more of a shot at Helton who i think won’t even be here next year so then it won’t matter.

The seahawks OL has been god awful the last 2 years but their offense has been ok. Texans OL is horrible they are doing fine this year. Philadelphia’s OL has been bad this year yet their offense is fine. Same thing with Green Bay and Atlanta

Move on to college

Texas AM offensive line is awful. Yet they are 4th in total offense in the SEC. Oklahoma state offensive line is horrible they are 3rd in the big 12 in total offense. Utah’s OL is bad yet they are having a good year.

Yes our OL is bad but they are not the worst in football. But hey keep making excuses for our OC when he’s getting paid like one of the top of best in the country.
 
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#82
#82
HankHill said:
That was actually more of a shot at Helton who i think won’t even be here next year so then it won’t matter.

The seahawks OL has been god awful the last 2 years but their offense has been ok. Texans OL is horrible they are doing fine this year. Philadelphia’s OL has been bad this year yet their offense is fine. Same thing with Green Bay and Atlanta

Move on to college

Texas AM offensive line is awful. Yet they are 4th in total offense in the SEC. Oklahoma state offensive line is horrible they are 3rd in the big 12 in total offense. Utah’s OL is bad yet they are having a good year.

Yes our OL is bad but they are not the worst in football. But hey keep making excuses for our OC when he’s getting paid like one of the top of best in the country.
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You think our OL is better than A&Ms and others? Our guys don’t block anybody half the time. What are you watching?
 
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#84
#84
HoleInTheRoof said:
If we're hosting Haselwood, who has gone on record as saying he wants to go to a school that showcases the receivers, then I think we're going to see a game plan similar to what we saw at Auburn.

Hopefully we can jump on them in the first half while Darius West is out.
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That's exactly what we're going to see. Downfield all day like vs Auburn and SC. Make Haselwood jump in the boat.

And we'll show any OL and RB's in attendance that there's plenty of opportunity to make a difference in the run game as well by highlighting how inept we are at blocking and running the ball.
 
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#85
#85
HoleInTheRoof said:
No, there really aren't. You'll be hard pressed to find winning football teams who have bad offensive lines. Let alone offensive lines as atrocious as ours. Our guys are grossly undersized, un-athletic, and too many times don't even know who to block post snap. It's embarrassing. I seriously question Will Friend as an OL coach simply based on how bad these guys look up front.

As far as 'finding things to do to be productive' or whatever... it isn't as though we have a grizzled veteran offensive coordinator. This is Heltons first year calling plays, and imo he leaves a lot to be desired as well.

But please, carry on with your anti-JG campaign.
Click to expand...

That was actually more of a shot at Helton who i think won’t even be here next year so then it won’t matter.

The seahawks OL has been god awful the last 2 years but their offense has been ok. Texans OL is horrible they are doing fine this year. Philadelphia’s OL has been bad this year yet their offense is fine. Same thing with Green Bay.

Move on to college

Texas AM offensive line is awful. Yet they are 4th in total offense in the SEC. Oklahoma state offensive line is horrible they are 3rd in the big 12 in total offense. Utah’s OL is bad yet they are having a good year.

Yes our OL is bad but they are not the worst in football. But hey keep making excuses for our OC when he’s getting paid like one of the top of best in the country.
 
#87
#87
Bassmaster_Vol said:
You think our OL is better than A&Ms and others? Our guys don’t block anybody half the time. What are you watching?
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Their OL is awful dude. Particularly in pass pro. They are 124th in sacks allowed with a very mobile QB. I’m not saying they are better or worse but they are in fact a bad OL.
 
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#88
#88
HankHill said:
That was actually more of a shot at Helton who i think won’t even be here next year so then it won’t matter.

The seahawks OL has been god awful the last 2 years but their offense has been ok. Texans OL is horrible they are doing fine this year. Philadelphia’s OL has been bad this year yet their offense is fine. Same thing with Green Bay and Atlanta

Move on to college

Texas AM offensive line is awful. Yet they are 4th in total offense in the SEC. Oklahoma state offensive line is horrible they are 3rd in the big 12 in total offense. Utah’s OL is bad yet they are having a good year.

Yes our OL is bad but they are not the worst in football. But hey keep making excuses for our OC when he’s getting paid like one of the top of best in the country.
Click to expand...

Darth, HITR - whether you agree or not this is the difference in a post based on interpretation of facts/stats versus opinion/narrative. Try it. Answer it with something - links, sources, stats, football analysis, whatever - so we can all have a good, reasonable discussion.

Hank is correct IMO. Scheme design, techniques used, situational play calling, QB reads and play, plus more all affect the perception of O-line play. This O-line cannot line up and man on man bull doze the opponents. Only Trey could do that. They can zone block and shield to create angles for running lanes. To do that requires a scheme that uses that type of play, which is what Helton's highly paid job is to do. Those particular type O-line players exist on this roster because Butch's O system used that type blocking scheme. I'm not ready to throw Helton under the bus because I want to see what he can do as the roster gets help. But he clearly has not made best use of the type talent he has.

Carry on.
 
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#89
#89
Vols4us said:
Darth, HITR - whether you agree or not this is the difference in a post based on interpretation of facts/stats versus opinion/narrative. Try it. Answer it with something - links, sources, stats, football analysis, whatever - so we can all have a good, reasonable discussion.

Hank is correct IMO. Scheme design, techniques used, situational play calling, QB reads and play, plus more all affect the perception of O-line play. This O-line cannot line up and man on man bull doze the opponents. Only Trey could do that. They can zone block and shield to create angles for running lanes. To do that requires a scheme that uses that type of play, which is what Helton's highly paid job is to do. Those particular type O-line players exist on this roster because Butch's O system used that type blocking scheme. I'm not ready to throw Helton under the bus because I want to see what he can do as the roster gets help. But he clearly has not made best use of the type talent he has.

Carry on.
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You’re never going to have a great offense with an OL of our caliber but we have some very nice skill guys and JG is good enough to get the ball if the gameplan is to get it out quick even if it’s 90% screens. We have the tools to have a decent offense. Not 7 points against Charlotte.
 
#90
#90
This is the definition of a trap game, and the betting line stinks. You have the #11 team in the country on the road facing a team with a losing record, yet the opening line only gave 3.5 points. Now you have 2/3 of the public money of Kentucky, and that line has moved all the way to 6 points. It's games like this where Vegas makes their money. Vols not only cover the spread with ease, but we win outright.

This is going to be a field position game. As always, mistake free football is the key to winning. On offense limiting turnovers is key. We need smart and crisp execution from JG in looking for intermediate and underneath routes, and as well as using Chandler as the change of pace back to exploit mismatches and keep the defense honest. If we gameplan and execute like we did against South Carolina on offense, that will put us in a position to win by multiple scores.

I am not at all confident in Kentucky's offense. I have watched almost every single UK game this year, and UT matches up very well against UK on defense. We know what Kentucky is on offense. Snell is a known commodity, and UK does have good wide receivers. At this point we know what Terry Wilson is, a dual threat with great athleticism (see his TD run against Florida). However Wilson struggles mightily against defenses who force him to beat you in the passing game. He simply does not have the experience or the skill set of a passer to put his talented WRs in a position to win the ball game. Do not let the final drive against Missouri fool you into thinking that Wilson can run a 2 minute drill and lead a comeback. If it wasn't for the referees handing the game to UK with that bogus PI call, UK is on the verge of a 3 game losing streak. Wilson will make bad throws, and if we can push the offensive line back (big ask), he'll make bad passes that our secondary can make a play on.

If the Vols play mistake free football on offense, pin the UK offense deep in their half of the field, force Wilson into making bad decisions, and limit the damage Snell will do, we win this ball game. Vols score 2 TDs and 1-2 field goals. UK scores 1 TD and 1-2 field goals in a game that is a battle for field position.

UT 20
UK 13
 
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#92
#92
This one is tough to read. I think we sell out to stop Snell and have some success, but I am not confident of getting enough pressure on Wilson to impact him to a lot of mistakes. He can also find running lanes when the pocket breaks down. Our offense will struggle. We need some big stops on D and a couple of splash plays from the likes of Ty Chandler and Marquez Calloway. I think it's doable but I really think we need to get off to a great start and get our crowd going. That has been very difficult to do for us.

I am struggling because it is very hard to make myself pick Kentucky to win, so I guess I will just go ahead and say

Tennessee 20

Kentucky 18
 
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#93
#93
Guarantano MUST throw the ball 25+ times. We won’t win the rushing battle. It’s up to him to read pressure like the mostly did against SCar and up to WRs to YAC it up!

Your Tennessee Volunteers... 16
Kentucky.... 14

We sweat it out on their final drive where they get in field goal range and Stoops bumbles time management and loses them the game.

And then we all LOL when we realize we’ll beat them on the hardwood too.
 
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#94
#94
Hank is correct IMO. Scheme design, techniques used, situational play calling, QB reads and play, plus more all affect the perception of O-line play. This O-line cannot line up and man on man bull doze the opponents. Only Trey could do that. They can zone block and shield to create angles for running lanes. To do that requires a scheme that uses that type of play, which is what Helton's highly paid job is to do. Those particular type O-line players exist on this roster because Butch's O system used that type blocking scheme. I'm not ready to throw Helton under the bus because I want to see what he can do as the roster gets help. But he clearly has not made best use of the type talent he has.

Carry on.
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I actually agree with most of this and have been pretty consistently critical of our offensive approach for much of the year.

My only point was that having an OL who consistently misses assignments and whiffs on defenders will undermine pretty much any approach an offense has anyway.

I also think there’s a pretty big difference between an OL that doesn’t have much talent, but still plays fairly disciplined football and an OL that seems to routinely blow assignments and leave defenders untouched.


Vols4us said:
Darth, HITR - whether you agree or not this is the difference in a post based on interpretation of facts/stats versus opinion/narrative. Try it. Answer it with something - links, sources, stats, football analysis, whatever - so we can all have a good, reasonable discussion.
Click to expand...

Seems more like a case if confirmation bias from you. All of those posts are pretty heavily based on opinion. But you liked it because it was an opinion you share, so you’re holding it in higher regard. Not sure why you feel the need to get preachy about people on a message board having discussions based on opinions.
 
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